Scout Proteus Wheels & Unlawful responses by Skoda. Support please.

[FrankieKitt]

In March 2013 we purchased a new Octavia Scout.  As a four wheel drive, raised ride height version, it sales represent a small percentage of overall sales of Octavias but like many other Scout purchasers between 2008-2013 the standard Proteus alloys started to show unsightly corrosion within the first two years.   At service in February 2015 we were offered by Skoda replacement Proteus wheels.  It is clear however from the speed of deterioration of the wheels and the accounts of other Scout owners that any replacement Proteus wheels would also prematurely corrode as did the original set. This form of redress is therefore ineffective and contravenes paragraph 4.1 of The Motor Industry’s Code of Practice which states; Where parts are supplied to dealers they will be of a satisfactory quality and fit for the purpose for which parts of that type are normally used.

http://www.motorcodes.co.uk/motorist/the-codes/new-car-code.html

 

My assertion that these wheels are not fit for purpose is based upon what the law describes as the expectations of a reasonable person, in that, having regard to their fitment to a 4x4 vehicle, equipped with additional body protection and raised ground clearance for light off road conditions, the reasonable expectation would be that the wheels would be correspondingly robust.  Of course that is not the case because they have the most vulnerable of wheel coatings, of less durability than the powder coated wheels fitted to Skoda vehicles intended solely for use on the road.  (As in many other Briskoda Scout users, my vehicle has never been used ‘off road’ so the wheels failed to survive a reasonable time in a road only environment)    

 

Skoda UK is a subscriber to New Car Codes which provides reassurance to customers a commitment to the Chartered Trading Standards Institute-approved codes of practice.  That in turn places obligations upon Skoda UK to observe the requirements of all legislation and regulatory requirements, including: The Sale of Goods Act 1979 and The Supply of Goods, Services Act 1982 when goods must be; of satisfactory quality, free from defect, be safe to use and last for a reasonable length of time in a reasonable condition.   

 

The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPR) 2008, applies to commercial practices, 'before, during and after a contract is made’ and includes ‘after-sales services’.  That act further reinforces the New Car Codes by creating offences for failing to comply with, ‘a firm and verifiable commitment in that code’. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284442/oft1008.pdf

 

Skoda’s warranty http://www.skoda.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Brochures/Warranty-Booklet-single.pdf and its application contravenes The New Car Codes, paragraphs 1.6 and 3 in that it appears to diminish a consumer’s rights and does not include a statement which makes it clear to consumers that the warranty is in addition to and does not affect a consumer’s rights.  This omission forms part of a series of unfair commercial practices which contravenes the CPR 2008 in that it is likely to materially distort the economic behaviour of the average consumer by withholding information concerning their broader consumer rights.  This retains the consumer within the less favourable confines of the warranty process. (i.e. consumers eventually give up and as in the case of many Briskoda members such as silver1011 who after two sets of wheels resort to refurbishment after the expiration of warranty)

 

Tyre fitters, wheel refurbishment specialists and many owners of Scouts tell of the poor durability of the Proteus alloys dating back over 7 years.  At http://www.skodaparts.com/genuine-skoda-parts customers are assured components, 'have shown to be safer, longer lasting and more economical over time’.  The Scout is one of the rarest of Skodas yet the Proteus issue is common knowledge at the dealers.  In all my correspondence and discussions with Skoda Customers Services including an email to Skoda’s CEO Alaisdair Stewart there is a failure to respond with a rational explanation concerning the accounts of other Scout owners who tell of replacement wheels also suffering premature corrosion and I am confronted with an attitude that my only form of redress is within the confines of Skoda’s like for like warranty with total disregard to its ineffectiveness under UK consumer law. 

 

The Briskoda membership of Scout owners is only a small percentage of overall Scout ownership but I see no reason to suggest that member experiences are not representative of that wider consumer group.  The Briskoda forum and community is extremely beneficial in the supply of ‘intelligence’ to its users but clearly from members stories, Skoda UK can still dismiss individual incidents as a ‘one off’ because consumers are alone without the benefit of supportive evidence that is available within their ‘community’.  Hence complaints are still being made in 2015 concerning an issue which first came to light in 2008/9. 

 

I now ask Briskoda members (some I know who work for Skoda UK and their dealerships) who have experience or knowledge of Proteus wheel warranty claims or delamination, resulting in loss of tyre pressure to contact me either through the forum or via the details below.  I am an ex-police officer, trained investigator and analyst which I only mention to reassure members that your personal details and information will not be disclosed further without consent, although it is hoped to provide evidence of members’ experiences to the regulatory body New Car Codes who understandably will not accept information from sources without it being able to be verified.

 

Frank Kitt – Onen Fawr, Capel Isaac, Llandeilo, Carmarthenshire. SA19 7TR. Tel.  01558 685638

[email protected]

[FrankieKitt]

I would also ask that you mention my request for support in this matter to any other owners of Octavia Scouts who are not Briskoda members and have experienced issues with proteus wheels.

 

Many thanks

[FrankieKitt]

Thanks for the email contacts and the helpful information, please keep it coming.

[zippy]

Thanks for the email contacts and the helpful information, please keep it coming.

Response sent

[aandareay]

FAO FrankieKitt

I purchased an Octavia Scout (New on 1st Sept 2012) from a Skoda dealer in Sheffield on 25th May 2013.   Since then blistering has appeared on all 4 alloy wheels.  This has been a slow process but is gradually getting worse. 

As the 3 year warranty runs out at end of August I decided to take the vehicle to my local dealer in Carlisle to see if anything could be done about this fault.    Their response was that they could replace the wheels which I would have to pay for and then they would send off to Skoda to claim the cost. They emphasised that Skoda may not pay as they were reluctant to pay for alloy wheel repairs.  This situation may leave me with a bill of £1000 or there abouts.  They suggested I take it back to the dealer where I bought it from and try them.   Needless to say I explained that it all seemed completely illogical as they surely could send the evidence of damage to Skoda for a decision BEFORE renewing/repairing wheels.      Someone in the car repair business had warned me that this particular dealer may be awkward and recommended a one in Dumfries which I will now try.    The Skoda Warranty is a little bit 'flimsy'.  

 

Alan Reay  

[FrankieKitt]

Alan

 

Skoda are subscribers to New Car Codes, the self regulatory body.  As you are aware, I am in the process of complaining to them about Scout wheels and Skoda's prolonged fitment of these wheels long after problems been reported.  In your case perhaps you should ring Skoda's customer services at this stage.  They will probably remind your original dealer of their obligations to Skoda under Chpt 3 para 4 of New Car Codes, Where repair work is required under the new car warranty it may be carried out by any dealer in the manufacturer's network.

 

In regard to these circumstances I would be most grateful if you could copy & past your post in an email to me at [email protected].  At the head of your account please include the registration number of your Scout.  I will submit this information to the New Car Codes.  I hope to get as many supportive cases indicating that these wheels are not of satisfactory quality / fit for purpose.  That determination may help some customers when their second set of alloys corrode out of warranty.

 

Many thanks for the time taken to respond to me request.

 

Frank

[silver1011]

Hi Frank,

 

I'm sure you have seen this thread, it is one of the most comprehensive threads on the well documented weakness of the polished / diamond cut surface of the Proteus alloy wheel. You may get some additional responses from members who have posted...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/123460-halting-alloy-wheel-lacquer-delamination/?hl=%20delamination

 

Skoda UK are well aware of the issue and as you mention I had two sets replaced whilst my car was under warranty. When these too also failed I had them refurbished with a standard silver paint at my cost and all has been well since.

 

For what it is worth I have been in Germany this week with work and in the car park was an early pre-FL Scout with heavily delaminated Proteus alloys.

 

Good luck.

[silver1011]

There is also this thread, it contains a comprehensive register of the vast majority of Scout owners on Briskoda, again another possible avenue for finding others with the same issue...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/162947-scout-owners-register/

[Nick_H]

I must be the luckiest sod alive when it comes to the wheel on my Scout. Coming upto 5 years old and still not a mark on them !!!

[FrankieKitt]

Silver

 

Thank you very much indeed for your advice with the Scout register, I'll get on it straight away. In discussions with staff at Car Codes they will not accept evidence from internet sources which have no way of being verified against individuals details or vehicle purchases. Hence I've been attempting to get emails from people, like yourself who have had to go through the inconvenience of many visits to the dealers, more often than not only to get the problem re-occur after warranty has expired.  It shows that their warranty redress is ineffective and in breach of consumer law, in particular towards the latter years where a company practising due dilligence would interrogate their warranty data and identify an inherent weakness.   

 

Another issue I'm hearing is the lack of uniformity in response from the dealers, some customers are still being greeted with reluctance to deal with these issues under warranty and some like Aandareay (Andy Reay has been asked to pay up front or take the car to the original selling dealer.  I think that reflects the 2+1 yr warranty arrangement with the dealer financing the last year.  What ever the reason its the customer who ends up squeezed between Skoda & dealer.

 

To date I've received a fair bit of support from Briskoda members who have emailed me their contact details including the registration number of their vehicle.  Most are willing for it to be supplied to the Motor Manufacturers Regulatory Body.  My email details are in my original post if you are prepared to supply such information.  Another fact relevant in your previous posts is, like me I now look at all Scouts in car parks and examine their wheels.  You have stated many Scouts you have seen older than 18 months have evidence of lacquer delamination.

 

I'm hoping the vast experience held within Briskoda can be put to some use and encourage Customer Services to treat their customers with respect to their rights.

 

Hope to hear from you again

 

Frank

[FrankieKitt]

Nick_H

 

You must truly be the luckiest man alive.  The men at Otto Fuchs must have put a special mix on.  Look after them, they must be a particularly rare type.

 

All the best

 

Frank

[Nick_H]

:-D Yeah Frank every time I clean the car I scrutinise them..... Wonder if it's how I cleaned them ? I always :

 

1) Wet them

2) Clean the excess muck of with a warm soapy towel

3) Clean inside with a baby brush

4) Clean the outside with a Meguirs soft wheel brush

5) Clean inside the spokes with a towel

6) Rinse

7) Apply Meguirs wet look tyre but I don't wipe it off the wheels

[Sarge]

Frank, it occurs to me that if you look through the used cars on the Skoda website (if you haven't already) you can see more Scouts which have either delaminated wheels or repainted ones. The details also show the car registration. I think the number on there has dropped recently - there were over a dozen not so long ago - but it may be another source of information.

Edited 19 June, 2015 by Sarge

[paddypaws]

That's the thing with forums, only people with problems tend to post. For what its worth, mine are two years and 3 months old and completely fine, not a mark.AlI I do is wash them with a soapy sponge every month or two. I do have winters though, so they don't see any salty action Nov- Feb. However I'll be back on here if they look like they are starting to go and don't get any joy out of the warranty!

[FrankieKitt]

Paddypaws / Sarge

 

Thats true to some extent but forum/community members tend to have a high degree of customer loyalty and frequently tell of their satisfaction with most aspects of the car (talking of the Scout here)  The majority of consumers don't venture near forums.  I can't think of a particular reason why the forum members, many of whom were members before the problems arose don't depict a fair representation of the wider consumer experience.  I have spoken to a number of people selling Scouts across the country, not one being a member of the forum.  They all report problems, some dealers who are selling 2013 Scouts with wheels with blemishes apparent, so I think Silver1011's assertion that it a rarity to find one without problems appears to be correct and from reports coming in via emails the people who retain the car soon have a repeat of the problem.  

 

Nick_H has managed to retain his in good order but that appears to be down to a number of extraordinary measures, a separate winter wheels set and a fastidious cleaning and protection regime.  It appears that Nick has been meticulous in his care as opposed to lucky.

 

Thanks for your views

 

Frank 

[FrankieKitt]

Some customers attempting to make a warranty claim have incurred reluctance at the dealers.  One being told that wheels are only covered for twelve months as they are regarded as 'items of trim'.  Has anyone had similar problems?

[silver1011]

I can confirm that my local dealer (DM Keith in York) did try to make me pay for my replacement wheels before submitting a claim to Skoda.

 

I dug my heels in and raised my voice a little in the showroom and they relented.

 

Another point with regard to those with wheels that are still in good shape. In my experience it isn't the cleaning method that is at fault (unless you frequent the hand car washes that use strong acidic wheel cleaners). The two issues are:

 

1) Damage from external influences, for me it was small stone chips right on the lip of where the normal paint meets the polished finish. A testament to the poor design as this exact area is the most exposed to flying stones.

 

Kerbing is another although it is very difficult to kerb the Proteus due to the profile of the tyres.

 

2) Tyre fitting. Again down to the poor design, the vulnerable polished finish goes right up under the lip / bead of the tyre. Unless the tyre fitter is extremely careful it only takes a small nick or slip and you have an entry point for water.

 

One of my wheels was visually perfect when stood next to it. It was only when it developed a slow puncture the tyre fitter told me that the inside of the alloy was badly corroded. He cleaned it up to reseal the tyre but told me a refurb was the only proper long term fix.

[Nick_H]

Guys just to add.... I've NEVER seen another Scout more than a couple of years old without wheel problems.... Like I said I think i'm just very lucky. I only do around 7k miles a year maybe that has also contributed to my jammyiness ...

[FrankieKitt]

Nick

 

From evidence provided from a coating company it seems a combination of poor key to the diamond cut surface and hard, brittle lacquer results in minute chipping from small particles of everyday road dust and/or chippings.  A breach of the coating not noticeable to the eye results in moisture ingress and oxidisation and the tell tale 'white worm' as the lacquer starts to delaminate.  It seems mileage plays a big part in obviously accelerating the rate of deterioration.  My wheels started to show white worm at 20 months and about 16.5K.

 

Plenty of people are now getting in touch with their stories, we'll see how things progress.

 

Frank

[FrankieKitt]

For all those who would like copies of old brochures please find.

 

For pre facelift.  http://web.archive.org/web/20071013192003/http://www.skoda.co.uk/skoda3g/content/whatsnew/Octavia_Scout.pdf

 

 

All the best

 

Frank

[FrankieKitt]

Just to update all those who are following this thread.  In January of this year I was awarded by an arbitrator the retail cost of 4 Proteus Alloy wheels, plus my costs of the arbitartion through Car Codes.  It totalled £1046.00.  A just result in the end.

 

Thank you to all the other owners who provided me with additional evidence concerning the problems they had with their Proteus wheels.

 

All the best

 

Frank Kitt

[paddypaws]

Earlier in this thread I posted my Proteus wheels were not corroding, now at at 3 years and 8 months old my Proteus alloys have started to corrode, I knew it was just a matter of time as I'd read all the reports on here of the same. Shame at this time its now out of warranty, of course. I guess there would be no come back from a claim to Skoda uk. :-(

[silver1011]

Worth a try, it is such a well documented issue Skoda would have a hard time trying to say it isn't a common issue.

 

There is still a chance of a goodwill gesture if a full warranty claim is now not possible.

[AndyGScout]

Dear Frank

I was wandering if you might be able to help, I have all 4 of my Proteus corroding which I reported to my Reseller in March this year. Here we are in Nov and after plenty of not acceptable responses from Skoda such as "we'll just paint them", or "maybe we can replace with the only other Scout compatible wheel the Zenith but we think this may have a similar problem" I threatened them with Motor Codes and directed them to this forum link and the response that they have given you. All I asked was for the same result. The response I received was, "...we feel it would be better if you took this case to Motor Codes..."

So to sum up Skoda have washed their hands of it. I was wandering if you might have a contact or documents relating to this case as I have now had enough of Skoda Customer Service and I don't want to let this lie.

Any help or advice you could give would be very much appreciated.

Andy