Yes, yes, I know... Opening a can of worms.

Now then, and my take on it:

My previous car was a Saab 9-3 Aero (the V6 petrol...) and although it was big and not so good handling, I could drive it quite fast and play with it on the limit. It was very predictable and you knew when it was going to let go.

As soon as I jumped on the VRS, I never felt the same degree of trust/connection with the car... Somehow I always felt the car was doing stuff that I didn't want it to.

I had disabled while ago the ESC fully but, at times and when driving on the limit I still felt that something was intervening. Cornering at speed on this car is... Weird. I always feel some weird mass transfers and the car and line become unsettled.

2 days ago, merging on the highway/motorway, I decided to test the car limits on the ramp, knowing well how fast I could do it with my Saab.

To my surprise and with EPC FULLY DISABLED, mid corner the car "corrects" itself, applies brakes and the rear steps out (which I corrected) but what ****ed me off was that it happened without any warning and without any input from me.

Today I decided to run an experiment - went to check my XDS setting, which was "standard" and after having tried "medium" previously, I decided to fully turn it off.

It is like a different car!! Became much more neutral, I can now accelerate from a stand still or out of a corner without juddering and really put the power down...

Someone still has to explain me how can it be a good idea to apply brakes under acceleration when trying to go fast.

Yes, I know what are the advantages of XDS and not everyone has a similar driving style or situation, jadda jadda...

...personally, I will now seriously test and consider if I want to have XDS enabled at all, since the car feels much more "planted" with it off.

Hard to explain, just try it...

Opinions? Other experiences? Discuss...

being the owner of a MkI Fabia I have no idea what XDS is or does but, I'd take motoring advice off a Finn any day Hyvaa Yota

Never had an an issue with it myself - maybe I am not driving hard enough!

 

Certainly been the best handling/performing FWD car I have had/driven so no complaints yet. It always feel planted and pretty predictable to me. Yes it starts to make its weight and size apparent on hard cornering, but to be expected surely?

 

I assume you used VCDS to turn off the XDS as I have never seen an option for it in-car?

 

Cheers

Yeps - disabled it via ObdEleven and, of course you only notice differences when driving VERY aggressive and on the limit, like you would around a track.

Would a April 15 model Vrs diesel estate have xds? cause I find ours is terrible coming out of corners in the wet just spins the inside wheel up, now I always thought xds in a scirocco r I once had was quite good

Would a April 15 model Vrs diesel estate have xds? cause I find ours is terrible coming out of corners in the wet just spins the inside wheel up, now I always thought xds in a scirocco r I once had was quite good

Most likely it has - mine is a petrol 15 VRS and it does.

You need either VCDS or OBDeleven to poke through the XDS settings and check what it is set to.

I think there are a total 5 different levels it can be set to, including totally off, which mine is now.

With that said, this is now in Summer and on the dry.

Come winter and the snow and I will surely turn it back on to where it was...

2 days ago, merging on the highway/motorway, I decided to test the car limits on the ramp, knowing well how fast I could do it with my Saab.

 

 

From Hervanta towards Karkunvuoren tunneli, perhaps?  

From Hervanta towards Karkunvuoren tunneli, perhaps?  

 

Pretty much so, yes

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If you are in Tampere, we should meet

Edited 4 July, 201610 yr by Jaco2k

My previous car a SEAT Leon FR170 DSG had it as does my current Scout. Pulling away briskly in the damp causes no problems with XDS.

I had a 1.4 Fabia as a courtesy car, this spun wheels every time I tried to pull away briskly, so the system does work!

My previous car a SEAT Leon FR170 DSG had it as does my current Scout. Pulling away briskly in the damp causes no problems with XDS.

I had a 1.4 Fabia as a courtesy car, this spun wheels every time I tried to pull away briskly, so the system does work!

 

I can then rephrase that it is crap on the dry

...on the wet or snow I do recognize benefits, but then you are probably driving differently.

 

What made me investigate it further was that the system actually unsettled my car in the middle of a corner, in what I considered to be a potentially dangerous situation... If I didn't react quickly and catch that rear, I would probably have ended up in the ditch in the inside of the corner :P

re post #9.

Which 1.4 Fabia did you have with XDS, was it  a 1.4 TSI vRS Twincharger ?

If it was spinning tyres and you had the TC still on it would likely also have cut power, so not so 'Simply Clever'. 

What made me investigate it further was that the system actually unsettled my car in the middle of a corner, in what I considered to be a potentially dangerous situation... If I didn't react quickly and catch that rear, I would probably have ended up in the ditch in the inside of the corner :p

 

You'd turned ESP off though hadn't you? So therefore that's what the car thinks you want to happen

 

I suppose XDS and ESP are setup and calibrated for the vast majority of drivers. So what you're finding is that you're pushing that setup and finding it doesn't react in the way you want it to. Probably what's happening is that you're pushing past the capabilities of XDS and if ESP was engaged you'd then feel the car correct itself.

This is what probably 99% of drivers would want. Can understand where you're coming from though. Just as well the system adjustable via VCDS and the like I suppose

I think what you say makes sense, but in a "performance" car I kinda expect a car that let's me drive as opposed to a false sense of security instilled by the electronics.

It is the first car I drive with this XDS (which is now pretty much left off...) and I didn't expect it (with ESP off...) to unsettle the car through a corner by applying what was obviously braking

 

Just for kicks, and for you to understand where I am coming from at it, here is a clip of me driving my Saab in a spirited way

https://youtu.be/tzhT9LIPIEg

I suppose we also have to consider ESP in this as well. It doesn't ever FULLY disengage, if I understand VW Group's setup correctly?

I suppose we also have to consider ESP in this as well. It doesn't ever FULLY disengage, if I understand VW Group's setup correctly?

 

That I am not so sure about - from factory, that might be a correct statement, but you can (supposedly) code a mode that allows you to (supposedly) turn it off.

 

I would need to find a safe place to do some controlled tests and see if when the car goes beyond the limit and I do nothing, is some electronic aid going to come to the rescue.

One thing is for sure - before turning off XDS and with ESP ( supposedly) completely off, the car would hop from a standstill acceleration and now with XDS off it will spin the wheels if you don't dose the acceleration right. So, for sure and at least for wheel spin, no electronics are doing anything.

 

If I get a chance some night this week, will try to find a quiet and spacious place to see if there are any aids still active when everything is (supposedly) off.

 

Right now it is raining whole week in Finland and under these conditions, I much rather have ESP on and, when I have time, will turn XDS on also - it does help when the road conditions are slippery. It is just that hoping that feels very violent, even when the car just slightly loses traction and it cannot be good for the components (joints, mounts, bearings) to have the car hopping and juddering like that...

Edited 5 July, 201610 yr by Jaco2k

re post #9.

Which 1.4 Fabia did you have with XDS, was it  a 1.4 TSI vRS Twincharger ?

If it was spinning tyres and you had the TC still on it would likely also have cut power, so not so 'Simply Clever'.

The Fabia I had did NOT have XDS.

The point I was making was the Leon FR 170DSG with XDS pulls away without wheel spin (proving the XDS works) whilst the non XDS Fabia 1.4 struggled with wheel spin!

Which Fabia? Rubbish tyres can have any car no matter how low the power spin tyres. And XDS and TC are different things when it comes to a flat straight take off. TC van reduce wheel spin.

Edited 19 July, 201610 yr by GoneOffSKi

I know what the mechanics of XDS are supposed to do but I only think I notice them during corners that were too fast to begin with. Especially when dry my experience is that I can corner the vRS pretty hard and good, I've never had the tail break out on me. I have had it understeer on me, especially in the wet and with ESC turned off or on sport. Problem is, ESC will also delay the wheel in picking up speed again after correcting any spin it was trying to counter, so when driving it hard I mostly turn it off as it's quicker to correct (or prevent understeer) than to 'wait' until the system decides it safe to accelerate again.

 

My main issue is (with or without ESC, or on sport) that I have too much torque to deliver in a straight line from a standstill. Even with ESC on (and I don't know whether XDS can do anything to help here) it will struggle to keep both wheels planted firmly on the asphalt. I know tuning it probably exacerbated the issue but I'm beginning to wonder which situations exactly XDS is supposed to remedy for me.

 

While this may seem like a negative review - I'm still having truckloads of fun with my VRS, it's just something I noticed.

Well...

 

I have a track day on Saturday (only going if it doesn't rain) and hope I can compare times with XDS off and on.

 

I still debate if I want to take too many risks on this track, since last time I was there -as a passenger- I was involved in a pretty big crash and ended up in the hospital.

Let's see how my brain acts when I am there - it is the first time for me on a track after that accident and been a while, but if I feel confident, I will compare both XDS on and off, ESC on and off, etc.

Ahvenisto?

On the track with XDS on and standard OEM fluid you are quite likely to have the XDS off soon enough as the brakes and fluid get too hot.

It disables its self.

Edited 19 July, 201610 yr by GoneOffSKi

Ahvenisto?

Yes - VRS club of Finland meet

Saturday 12:00-15:00.

Been in a big crash as a passenger there a couple of years ago. First time returning to a track after that crash, but I need to get back on the horse...

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I think that if you pay 30€ they will let you take one of your cars around the track

Edited 20 July, 201610 yr by Jaco2k

Well, if I have time I may visit the track but I'll be driving my Blackbird.