guys

have a new karoq 2020 tsi…..can someone advise as difficult to find out what longlife oil this engine uses...thanks

Your engine has VW508/509 oil from the factory so 0w 20 FS IV.   

That is the recommended oil by Skoda / VW as that is what they used in all cars when getting the WLTP / RDE & RDE2 results.

 

VW 504 so 5w 30 FS III could be used at the first service, but best stick with 0w 20 FS IV for topping up until then.

 

Edited 8 March, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

0w20  vw508/509 for 1,0 1.5 & 2.0TSI in the karoqs at first service you can put the car on to yearly servicing and then you can put in 5w30 vw 504 

@Rsrob

Actually you can keep it on variable / flexible servicing and use VW 504/507 5w 30 FS III as that is Long Life Oil.

Or change to fixed.

 

You could put on Fixed and use VW502 if you so wanted, not Long Life oil, maybe just a Longer Living TSI.

4 minutes ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@Rsrob

Actually you can keep it on variable / flexible servicing and use VW 504/507 5w 30 FS III as that is Long Life Oil.

Or change to fixed.

 

You could put on Fixed and use VW502 if you so wanted, not Long Life oil, maybe just a Longer Living TSI.

 

forgot about vw 502 oil not put that in one of my car for years

Roottoot....., I've noted you're recommendation for VW 502 oil before, if one opts for fixed servicing.  Is there any reason you prefer this over VW 504, or is it that it doesn't matter so much if oil changes are more frequent?  I understand why you're wary of the very thin VW 508 oil.

Time will tell if Euro 6 TSI's have any better long term longevity than many of the Euro 5 1.2, 1.4, 1.8 & 2.0 TSI's that were leaving factories with Long Life oil and Variable/  Flexible servicing intervals.

Some cars, or actually hundreds of thousands do OK.

 

If you are just running a TSI for 3 years and handing back then maybe the 0w 20 FS IV or 5w 30 FS III will make no difference and might use a few litres less fuel a year.

If you own a car and want a keeper then maybe worth considering ditching the VW recommendation on Long Life oil and just use the correct spec of an oil that give good lubrication and cooling of the engine. 

 

Personally i like Super Unleaded petrol and 99 ron and would never run my own TSI's on Long Life oil and Higher Octane Petrol.

I would never run a TSI on Long Service Intervals either if i own it.

On my 2.0 TDI, I did the first service. They exchanged the oil with Castrol Edge 5W30. They set the next service interval again to 2 years and 30k km, but this oil can't run so long, as the first oil fitted by factory did, isn't it?  So I should now change it after 10k-15km or 1 year, isn't it?

Edited 9 March, 20206 yr by Gabi4

@Gabi4

 

The VW504/507 was the long life oil used for Variable / Flexible servicing up until VW started using VW508/509 in 2018.

They used that with Euro 5's and then Euro 6's. 

 

VW 507 so 5w 30 FS III is Long Life oil and the oil for a 2.0 TDI on 18,000-20,000 / 24 month servicing if you want.  

(Or a 1.2, 1.4 or 1.6 TDI)

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes

 

Edited 9 March, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

@Roottootemblowinootsoot,

thanks for your answer. So the Castrol Edge they filled with is not suitable for long term service.

Castrol Edge 5w 30 FS III to VW 504 / 507 is perfect for a 2.0TDI on Fixed or Variable servicing. 

The VW507 bit is what matters, you have to use that. or VW 509 0w 20 FS IV.

Edited 9 March, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

I agree that going for fixed servicing, i.e. more frequent oil changes is a better regime and with the slightly lower mileage I'm settling down to now, it nicely equals annual servicing for me.  This makes it convenient to add MOTs in with the servicing, once the car is 3 years old.

 

I still don't understand what is better about VW 502 over VW 504 oil.  Googling around on VW oil specs - VW 504 oil seems generally to be 5W-30 with detailed additional requirements & the older VW 502 seems generally to be 5W-40 according to this (2012)pdf information sheet aimed at American users.

https://www.anciravolkswagen.com/blogs/949/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Approved-Oil-List.pdf    So 502 is more viscous/thicker when cold - have I got this correct & is that a good thing?  I would think not - I believe you want oil to circulate as freely as possible throughout the engine when it is cold.  Both seem to be synthetic oils and typically similarly thin at full operating temperature, so both hopefully as good at maintaining a robust separating film between moving parts when hot.

 

Some other sites that clarify or do they add to the complexity/confusion

https://www.noln.net/articles/3406-the-sea-of-specs-why-its-important-to-use-the-oil-recommended-by-the-oem & https://www.oilspecifications.org/volkswagen.php

 

Clearly some diesels do require special oils - whatever pump duse injectors are

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/816217/whats-the-special-thing-about-vw-502-00-oils    I wonder if a thicker when cold, older spec 502 oil cause problems with the newer VAG higher pressure petrol injectors and is it compatible with the GPFs in 2019 models onwards - probably talking rubbish.  However, at the moment I'm thinking it's safer to stay with VW 504 at least - but don't mind being persuaded otherwise and would like to know more about the whys & wherefores.

 

 

@croquemonsieur

  In 2010 Toyota had to change the New then Euro 5 engines from 5w 30 FS to 0w 30 FS because the fuel consumption was not as good as the Euro 4 engines.

Customers might get a bit better fuel consumption and just buy slightly more expensive oil. Maybe buy more of it as well as they used more oil.

 

So VW had to use 0w 20 FS IV for WLTP testing. Get the lower emission and fuel consumption under testing. That is to suit them.

Engine longevity has never mattered to VW Group.

They just need them to not cause them warranty issues for 3 years.  If they get away with that stuff the customers buying used, keep the fleet / lease market sweet.

 

 

Just do not bother about using VW 502  5w 40 FS then.    Just go with the manufacturers recommended oil.

 

The 5 part is the thicker when cold than 0.   

What i am interested in is the 40 with a TSI and thicker when hot / driven hard.  5w 40 FS

so not using the 30 or 20 as in the 5w 30 FS III or 0w 30 FS III or 0w 20 FS IV

 

Then additives / detergents are of no interest to me. 

Additives / detergents in Oil, additives / detergents in petrol.  I want less detergents with a TSI and less chance of bore wash.

 

 

TDI's (Diesels) are a whole different kettle of fish.

They have DPF's.  VW 507 or 509 is the spec required.

 

Edited 9 March, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

13 minutes ago, croquemonsieur said:

 

I still don't understand what is better about VW 502 over VW 504 oil. 

 

A higher viscosity may have some benefits in older cars with wider tolerances or worn engines, or those that experience very high working temperatures.

 

But the downside for the latest gen engines is a lower flow rate, so less cooling, cleaning and less fresh oil flowing through those tighter tolerance parts. And of course a lower fuel economy.

 

The 1.0tsi and afaik 1.5tsi use a fully variable electronic control of oil pressure (not flow) matching pressure to power demand, rpm and temperature via a map.

 

Check out the technical viscosity specifications below for the oils most commonly in UK Skoda workshops.

 

I have recently been told by a service advisor that Skoda has instructed them to stop using Castrol oils and use Quantum instead.

 

11044_Platinum_5W-40.pdf

16890_Quantum_LONGLIFE_III_5W-30_Spec_Sheet_V1-1.pdf11044_Quantum_LONGLIFE_IV_0W-20_Data_sheet.pdf

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/476057-vag-independent-uses-fusch-oils

 

 

 

Edited 9 March, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

Ahhh, I got that the wrong way round, thanks for putting me right, should have checked first with Wikipedia on oil specs.  I do a lot of motorway driving at sustained 70+ mph with occasionally dashes up to 90 to get past a group of vehicles - I suppose in a very hot summer the thicker-when-hot 502 oil might just be more protective than 504, but I rarely if ever go past 4000rpm, so hardly thrashing the car.

 

Your point about excessive detergent in the engine makes sense though & now recall you saying this before - you're implying 502 oil has less of this, but do some of the other additives in 504 enable the oil film to remain more stable.  However 502 does now look like a strong possibility, if I can get the dealer to use it come July.

 

I took on board some time ago, your point about the very thin 508 oil and getting through WLTP Euro 6+ testing & not being about ensuring a long engine life.  Presumably my 7month old car has this - checked the oil when hot today at a motorays services, 5mins after switching off and oil halfway down the relevant zone on the dip stick after 5,500mls, so not burning off an awful lot and with luck don't need to top up before the 1st service.

 

In my situation, I have to climb a steep hill when leaving home and have to use some revs, so something to be said for my oil being as thin as possible when cold, but on the other hand, down here in the South East, we rarely get really cold weather.  Still if I didn't have to park in the road and had a garage, I'd put a small electric tube heater under the sump - would be belt & braces I suppose.

 

The issue of 505/507/509 oils for diesels & compatibility with DPFs is acknowledged, but I'm petrol.

Thanks xman & Root for further info, interesting - so I should be looking at Quantum or Fuchs oils, and maybe I'm again tending to look at VW 504 oil at least - got 4-5months to decide what's best.  Maybe I'll move over to 502 if I still have the car in 7years time.

0W20 (VW508.00) has one purpose, and only one purpose, to ensure the engine meets the latest strict emissions out of the factory.

 

If topping up prior to the first service then use the same oil, however once the car is serviced be sure to ask what the dealer is filling it with. I'm amazed at how different dealers are varying with the oil they are using.

 

I don't get the need for VW502.00 / VW504.00 etc.

 

If the dealer isn't using VW508.00 at the service then just use VW507.00, its far simpler.

@silver1011

It is VW 504 / 507, 

 

if you use VW507 which is the spec for TDI's then that is exactly the same VW 504  5w 30 FS III that goes in a TSI.

 

Like VW 508 / 509.   That is the same oil.  0w20 FS IV,   508 for TSI's & 509 for TDI's.

Edited 13 March, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

That's my point, if it's 5W30 you need just buy VW 507.00.

Far simpler to say if you want and need VW 504 then ask for VW 504.  But then confusion rules at Dealerships / Motor Factors and Forums.

 

For anyone with a 1.4 or 15 TSI that wants to use VW502 and do Fixed Servicing there are plenty quality oils available to spec.

 

Edited 13 March, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

I'm wondering if the high revs and tight tolerances of turbos could also be a reason for preferring thinner oil.

@agedbriar

Do the Turbos in a 1.0,1.4 or 1.5 TSI actually have tighter tolerances in 2018, 2019 & 2020 than those they had in 2017?

My guess is that the main reason that 0W20 / VW508.00 was introduced was in preparation for the introduction of WLTP.

Ressurecting an oldish thread, particularly with regard to Xman's note that Skoda dealers are changing from Castrol to Quantum oils.  My late July 2019 Karoq 1.0 TSI DSG SE Technology had it's 1st (Oil) service on Tuesday.

 

I phoned around a few local garages - original dealer still using Castrol, as was another, but I also came across TransCity in Walthamstow, actually much closer and more convenient for me.  I know the place but didn't realise they were Skoda and have been for 30 years.  On enquiry they said they are moving over to Quantum and that they would use Longlife III, the 5w30 oil on my car, which is what I was wanting - following the lengthy discussions here.  I was a little surprised (but pleased) as I believe that the car came with 0w20 oil.  I haven't seen anything written here about whether there are good technical reasons for changing to Quantum oils, or is it just VW group forcing dealers to use their product?

 

Anyway service went very smoothly and quickly (usual inspection video over smart phone) - friendly people and bought an extra litre for topping up + a bottle of VW screen wash that someone here recommended.  Of course took some care in social distancing, mask, glaves, antibactrial/viral liquid etc.  I'll go to this place in future, only a shortish bus ride away, if ever the car has to stay there a while + more interesting area to go walking than other 'local' dealers, while the servicing happens - including Lloyd Park and the William Morris Gallery. 

 

I'm on fixed servicing but the car had only done just under 6000 miles due to lock down, but still glad I opted for fixed servicing and maybe a good thing for the first oil change to happen 'early'.  I normally expect to do 10,000 pa.  Anyway, I last filled the car with petrol on 8th March & it's still 1/4 full.  Going to Waltham Abbey for a refill today - one of my longer journeys at present, but will soon be getting back to putting in higher monthly mileages.