10 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

This is quite a good comparison of a Nissan Leaf and Nissan Micra Petrol, both purchased new and kept for 3 years, 48,000 miles and after 3 years, and even assuming you was able to charge your leaf 100% free while your micra would have cost you £6,400 for petrol, the micra would still be the more cost effective car overall by £13,800 saved in your back pocket.

Now that amount would vary for other cars and of course does not cover things like tyres, servicing etc, but even with the micra requiring servicing which the leaf wouldn't (allegedly) you would still be better off with the micra.

Micra is a 4M car, LEAF is a 4.5M car different segments.

Don't know about the LEAF, which is clearly a C segment car when the Micra is a B segment car but the deals then and now are far better on EVs than they were and are on ICE cars.

Just comparing RRP is a false comparison. My Zoe was £34K RRP in 2021 but after numerous discounts and subsidies the bottom line is what you pay per month so my Zoe has been £280 a month and with servicing and tyres for24k miles it has cost about £500 or about a tenner a month so still way under £300 a month and insurance has been quite cheap also. Fuel cost for 24k miles has been about £500 too so around £300 a month all in I would say.

If a Mirca, or say a Clio would have cost less than £300 a month for lease cost, fuel, servicing and tyres I would be surprised. Lease would be £200 to £250 a month, fuel a good £60 a month servicing two to three times a Zoe EV, a couple of tyres for £200 like the Zoe. So at least £300 a month.

One thing in favour of EVs is that companies seem to be happier to give Fuel cards out than EV charge RFIDs. Maybe as Fuel Cards are easier to check they are not being mis-used for other vehicles.

Running a Dacia Sandero is probably cheap motoring and why it is one of the most popular cars bought.

"The Dacia Sandero was the best-selling car in Europe in 2024, with309,392 units sold."

https://media.dacia.com/record-market-share-for-dacia-in-2024-and-still-on-the-european-podium-for-retail-customers/

Lindsey Oil refinery in Lincolnshire goes in to administration.

Lindsey supplies about 10% of UK fuel and after Grangemouth recent closure we will see if UK government props Lindsey refinery or lets it go under..........

Higher oil prices might be another boost for EV sales ?

I seriously am thinking that i will get a Dacia Spring on lease as a daily / local driving (Home charging) & buy a camper / day van for longer journeys / trips. A V6 maybe. Such as..

Edited 1 July, 20251 Jul by Ootohere

Before 2023, from 2017 when I was looking, we hardly ever see EV with 0% finance. It's nearly always higher than ICE vehicle. People were saying EV are expensive because monthly are high. That was because EV depreciation are low back then, market choice was very limited.

Now, people have moved the goal post, saying EV depreciate more and ignore the 0% incentives for ultra cheap monthly.

Swings and roundabouts. Whatever suits your narrative.

Truth is right now, EV depreciate slightly higher % and sometimes it's more expensive to buy initially. But lots of deals to be had for first buyer on finance and subsequent owners.

(just don't be a first owner cash buyer)

Ford must be doing Motability a good price on buying their biggest BEV with a smaller battery hoping to get plenty customers leasing them & getting First Registered.

Leasing a Dacia Spring from Motability is costing double much more than just leasing from Dacia,

even taking into account Insurance is included with Motability.

9 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Lindsey Oil refinery in Lincolnshire goes in to administration.

Lindsey supplies about 10% of UK fuel and after Grangemouth recent closure we will see if UK government props Lindsey refinery or lets it go under..........

Higher oil prices might be another boost for EV sales ?

Remarkable how BBC has so far apparently been silent on this, another win to the YouTube media creators and yet so many are anti YouTubers when it is looking even more then ever that MSM is being controlled in some form, admitted not everything on YouTube is as it seems, but a large part is factual and as yet not controlled.

Edited 1 July, 20251 Jul by Graham Butcher

1 minute ago, Graham Butcher said:

Remarkable how BBC has so far apparently been silent on this, another win to the YouTube media creators and yet so many are anti YouTubers when it is looking even more then ever MSN is being controlled in some form, admitted not everything on YouTube is as it seems, but a large part is factual and as yet not controlled.

The Oxbridge wallies of the BBC don't live in the real world. Almost dont watch any BBC except Have I Got New For You.

Only 4 large oil refineries in the UK is pretty thin even with EV taking an ever growing share.

Visited the Pembrokeshire refinery few years ago. A massive site.

Agree HIGNFY is about the only thing on BBC worth watching, wish they would bring Angus Deayton back to chair, there was something magical about the chemistry between the trio, just as there was with the Top Gear trio of Clarkson, Hammond and May.

48 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Visited the Pembrokeshire refinery few years ago. A massive site.

I wonder how much electricity it uses......

How many EV's can be powered by freed up capacity from oil refinaries....

BBC TV maybe not covered it, but Radio 4 & 5 Live did last night and this morning.

Just filled up with diesel, 139.7 pence a litre.

half tank to full £55.50 and showing 635 mile range.

Away to do 1,200 mile trip and then MOT due end this month, suspension, brakes and steering parts required then it is getting sold. Seating and pedal space just about identical to the old and new Electric Mini. Great comfort. Crap imitation fat leather steering wheel on the New MINI and not nice fabric interior or fake leather seating.

Edited 1 July, 20251 Jul by Ootohere

Oil refineries require oil and gas to generate the electricity to run them. No idea just how much oil and gas is not required with Geangemouth refinery closed. Gas required to have the oil flowing through the pipes to the refinery. UK energy security is being reduced PDQ by this Government and the last actions or inactions.

Just looked at a VW group EV, CUPRA Born (just got a 2022 example and it is cracking car) as example of how they are being sold.

April to June were offering £4500 deposit contribution and 0%

July to Sept now offering £7000 deposit contribution and 4.9%

Also get £500 charge credit or approx £1000 discount on installing a home charger

They have also introduced a new Exclusive spec level, basically the mid spec V2 with a few options included as standard. So keeps it under £40k list price.

Of course this is all smoke and mirrors, they could just sell it at £33k with no discount. Seems excessive amount of extra price and discount, would expect more like £36k with 3k deposit contribution. But does look like reasonable value at that price (and seriously undercuts the similar ID3 price). Makes Skoda EV sale offers look half hearted when compared.

Edited 1 July, 20251 Jul by SurreyJohn

I see that Skoda now have started teasing the upcoming Epiq.

Looks like that £17,000 that was the tease back when we were all younger is now £25,000

As usual with the VW Group they use their tame Publishers, Haymarket Media Group, Autocar / What car.

Those that are selectively blind when Skoda launch vehicles with faults requiring visits again and again to dealers and will launch new ones while dealerships are giving appointment for warranty repairs, updates months away.

Edited 1 July, 20251 Jul by Ootohere

A piece about VWs forray into switching from ICE to EV by the FT.

I am reading that those representing liquid fuel sellers are blaming the installation of EV chargers for the hight priced of petrol and diesel. I also see today some car manufacturers blaming having to build EV,s for needing to close factories. .... I also see lots of recalls being required by the car manufacturers . ICE vehicles. Various issues. Engine issues. ..... Then I sed the various versions of EV,s coming out, rally ready, or street rally looking. High performance licence looses. Vehicle to appeal to boy / girl racers or just old codgers maybe. Lay down a deposit and sign on the never never.

Edited 4 July, 20254 Jul by Ootohere

Qatar Investment Authority share ownership of VW group might not be huge but I bet their influence is. I would expect more mention of Qatar from Financial commentators or publications. Eg FT. Financial Times owned by a Japanese holding company.

Edited 4 July, 20254 Jul by Ootohere

Another hour of free electricity from Octopus tomorrow 2-3 pm.

Got £3 refund for my free electricity a fortnight ago.

With the lowering of the daily standing charge all the recent sunshine and my new 2 axis solar tracking array which is increasing solar collection by about half I have reduced down my DD to Octopus to £133 and am still in credit by a months worth of usage.

In a counter move petrol station are thinking of delivering fuel cans with a few litres in to their customers.

Na, not really.

Octopus may not be the absolute cheapest hourly rate but they seem to be very fair on tweaking the DD payments and not insisting one is massively in credit in summer. Also they do Octoplush toys that even Maverick the Lab does not destroy in 10 minutes like most other dog toys......

Sh-!t weather and doing quite a few miles and many more to cover in the next 4 days. I am more than happy to be paying 140 pence a litre for diesel and getting 46 mpg or better rather than paying 60 - 79 pence a kWh to charge so maybe £6.00 to £7.90 for maybe 37 to 46 miles as I drive.

Edited 4 July, 20254 Jul by Ootohere

36 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

Sh-!t weather and doing quite a few miles and many more to cover in the next 4 days. I am more than happy to be paying 140 pence a litre for diesel and getting 46 mpg or better rather than paying 60 - 79 pence a kWh to charge so maybe £6.00 to £7.90 for maybe 37 to 46 miles as I drive.

Our low range, but quick accelerating Mini Cooper E has left China and heading across the Indian Ocean and due to dock in UK on the 11th of August I gather.

Range of between 110 miles in Go Cart mode to 200 in Eco mode and good weather going to be interesting.

Gravitating towards R4 rather than R5 for my own second car and R4 seems to be getting similar gushing praise that the R5 has been getting but is clearly more practical for carrying cargo and oversized / overlegthened people.

Scenic, even though the UK discontinued 60/65 kwh version has been awesome with this week doing Worcester-Liverpool-Worcester no problem with 40 miles of range left after it's 246 miles trip. Cost about a fiver.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

Got £3 refund for my free electricity a fortnight ago.

I only got 52p :(

Intelligent Octopus customers are credited for having EV smartly controlled. Nothing else get free lecy credit now.

So I only plugged in the 3.3 kW Leaf to IOG controlled charge point. It didn't get a slot allocated for the free session. So essentially got 52p for free. But I don't like this direction of travel.

Previously during the 2 hour free session, I maxed out my grid connection for the 2 hours at 20 kW. Got over £9 of credit and free energy.

Now, for Intelligent customers, only car charging is credited for as free leccy.

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

I only got 52p :(

Intelligent Octopus customers are credited for having EV smartly controlled. Nothing else get free lecy credit now.

So I only plugged in the 3.3 kW Leaf to IOG controlled charge point. It didn't get a slot allocated for the free session. So essentially got 52p for free. But I don't like this direction of travel.

Previously during the 2 hour free session, I maxed out my grid connection for the 2 hours at 20 kW. Got over £9 of credit and free energy.

Now, for Intelligent customers, only car charging is credited for as free leccy.

I have given up on the saving days as I was just getting a few pence but on the free days I plug both EVs and plug in my Allpower S2000 which charges at 1.5 kws.

I should put on the electric immersion too which is 3kws and then save on the gas but gas is so cheap ie 5.71 p per kwh and the boiler is 15 kws so much more powerful.

Just have to make sure I do not stay above 80A is only about 18 kws and I am getting up to 12 kws already after National Grid switched my 100 A to 80A as is policy now.

@lol-lol I pick up the courtesy MINI E on Tuesday night and will have it for at least 3 nights.

I will play about more with it this time.

When i took it home last time i did not mess about setting anything or adjusting other than the seat and mirrors then was booting it home.

It was doing near 5 miles a kWh. and i never charged it when home or before taking it back.

It was damn good and nothing was switched off, lane keep assist or speed limit warning.

It was not as sharp to accelerate as my MINI in Mid and i just tried Go-Kart mode for a few bends then back to mid.

It cornered very very well in that setting.

(The tyre pressures were showing all at 2.5 bar.)

17 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@lol-lol I pick up the courtesy MINI E on Tuesday night and will have it for at least 3 nights.

I will play about more with it this time.

When i took it home last time i did not mess about setting anything or adjusting other than the seat and mirrors then was booting it home.

It was doing near 5 miles a kWh. and i never charged it when home or before taking it back.

It was damn good and nothing was switched off, lane keep assist or speed limit warning.

It was not as sharp to accelerate as my MINI in Mid and i just tried Go-Kart mode for a few bends then back to mid.

It cornered very very well in that setting.

(The tyre pressures were showing all at 2.5 bar.)

Exclusive comes with 18s but I would have had 17s at a choice.

Pure conjecture but one wonders how extreme low profile tyres and pot holes contributed to Jota and his brother's death. Very sad occuence and the subsequent fire and I hope lessons are learnt and not just glossed over because he was a popular footballer. Speed, road quality and the extreme performance level of the car and driver experience. Perhaps hypercars should have an addional test whether petrol or EV if they have over 500 hp or something like 800 hp as in the Huracan's case if memory serves.

Edited 4 July, 20254 Jul by lol-lol

Eye witness in car being ovetaken then GPS on car and phones and all the information from the ECU will tell the tale of the vehicle and occupants last journey while alive. Now it is not just the wealthy that can have very fast cars not that it ever has been, but now for under £6,000 you can get a very quick EV and maybe with suspension, brakes and tyres just needing a bit of work and a MOT or even cheaper fixed / parts and a snide MOT. Garage staff doing road tests of very quick cars might well be a liability and should require more than just a driving licence and the standard test..

Edited 4 July, 20254 Jul by Ootohere

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

I have given up on the saving days as I was just getting a few pence but on the free days I plug both EVs and plug in my Allpower S2000 which charges at 1.5 kws.

I should put on the electric immersion too which is 3kws and then save on the gas but gas is so cheap ie 5.71 p per kwh and the boiler is 15 kws so much more powerful.

Just have to make sure I do not stay above 80A is only about 18 kws and I am getting up to 12 kws already after National Grid switched my 100 A to 80A as is policy now.

Me too, on saving sessions. Because my usual is 0 import from the grid, it's impossible to save any more than that 🤣

But free electricity sessions are now different for Intelligent Go (and Flux) customers compared to other regular tariffs. Max we can get is 52p for plugging in EV (free charging). Household use is no longer free for us.

3 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Now it is not just the wealthy that can have very fast cars not that it ever has been, but now for under £6,000 you can get a very quick EV and maybe with suspension, brakes and tyres just needing a bit of work and a MOT

Which EV is that?

They have certainly come down in price by a lot. Cost of purchase is no longer a barrier.