20 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

The truth about EVs 🙂

The only thing he mentions I slightly disagree with is 'losing range due to pre-heating' The same is true of ICE vehicles, if you run your engine to to preheat / defrost your ICE car you are losing range and quite a bit of it too. Also, if the car is plugged in to the charger you lose no range as it draws from the grid to heat the car.

That is one thing however that you should never do with an ICE, causes more damage to the engine then gentle driving does while it gets upto temp.

As to the EV, that surely depends on how the car is connected to the grid, a granny cable might not be capable of supplying the load, especially if it is a long one.

Edited 16 June, 202516 Jun by Graham Butcher

@Graham Butcher

'A long one' Do you mean the length of the cable from socket to car?

A 3 pin cable and set at 10 amp max is more than capable of preconditioning an EV.

23 minutes ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher

'A long one' Do you mean the length of the cable from socket to car?

A 3 pin cable and set at 10 amp max is more than capable of preconditioning an EV.

Yes, that is correct, as I was talking about a granny cable. The 10A might not be delivered if it is plugged into an ordinary extention cable, as these can be of variable quality and capacity depending on where they came from.

Edited 16 June, 202516 Jun by Graham Butcher

1 minute ago, Graham Butcher said:

Yes, that is correct, as was talking about a granny cable. The 10A might not be delivered if it is plugged into an ordinary extention cable, as these can be of variable quality and capacity depending on where we're came from.

There can be miniscule voltage drop over long cable distance. The amount of energy loss wouldn't be noticeable.

But using extension cable is playing with fire, literally. Unlike "granny cable", the extension lead plug and socket at the other end does not have thermal sensors, so the pins may overheat without anyone knowing.

I'm 2 years away from 10 years EV ownership. The infrastructure has changed leaps and bound from 2017, doubling over last few years. Whereas the EV tech itself hasn't changed massively in the last couple of years, tech seems to be stable but with a LOT more choices last few years. Therefore I think we are now firmly out of early adopter phase into early majority phase.

While we are at it, here's a bit how charging works:

Video is predominately north America, but the message applies everywhere. In short: people who can't easily home charge should not be pushed to use expensive DC fast charging.

"Electric cars can be used differently from gas cars and we should be leaning into that difference and not trying to replicate the liquid fuelling paradigm."

@Graham Butcher Have you checked just what the kWh is actually used while getting the EV,s interior from lets say -5*oC to 15*oC and pre heating the battery, small car or bigger car?

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

As to the EV, that surely depends on how the car is connected to the grid, a granny cable might not be capable of supplying the load, especially if it is a long one.

As others have said, a 2.3kW granny charger will provide plenty of heat over time. Your point is valid however, as my car will use around 5kW at max heat early on so not quite half would be met by the granny charger but still better than the ICE car that relies 100% on it's fuel tank to warm up your car. A proper wall charger will meet 100% of the power need for pre-heating.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

That is one thing however that you should never do with an ICE, causes more damage to the engine then gentle driving does while it gets upto temp.

But people do do it, especially if the windows are frozen over.

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher Have you checked just what the kWh is actually used while getting the EV,s interior from lets say -5*oC to 15*oC and pre heating the battery, small car or bigger car?

No need to do that, it would depend on the actual car in question. My point is pretty clear, surely?

The supplied cable that came with the car is going to be up to the job of supplying the current. Every metre of cable added on will add to the overall impedance of the entire circuit feeding power to the car. It is that extra cable that is the point of where everything can suddenly go downhill rapidly, you can buy extension leads from Poundland that may only just be capable of handling 5A max. The cable it self may well be copper coloured aluminium, the plug pins maybe even made from hollow extrusions, the socket contacts may be of poor quality etc.

It might be an idea to try and find out how many fires the Fire Brigades think are down to such poor leads. Most people really do not much of an idea when it comes what is and what is not safe to use.

Just as @Luckypants said about people warming their ICE up by leaving it idling, so some people will and do, add on cable to their granny leads.

Edited 16 June, 202516 Jun by Graham Butcher

Like i have.

A suitable extension cable to take the electricity to outside to plug into.

Getting plugged inside at Midnight to be sure to be sure of 100% in the morning.

The 3 pin charging cable that came with the MINI stopped working last week so got swapped for one i have for taking in the car when away. The cars setting to start charging Off Peak or to be ready for departure or to precondition is unreliable.

PS

Poundland was sold for £1 last week. I must check out any clearances at stores that are closing and get a few extension cables, maybe some fire extinguishers as well.

Edited 16 June, 202516 Jun by Ootohere

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Every metre of cable added on will add to the overall impedance of the entire circuit feeding power to the car. It is that extra cable that is the point of where everything can suddenly go downhill rapidly, you can buy extension leads from Poundland that may only just be capable of handling 5A max. The cable it self may well be copper coloured aluminium, the plug pins maybe even made from hollow extrusions, the socket contacts may be of poor quality etc.

The cable itself isn't the problem.

20 meter cable using a thin 1.0 mm cable = less than 0.5 ohm resistance.

10 amp squared * 0.5 ohm = 50 w of heat to dissipate. Easily done, no problem at all.

Have a play here:

https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/wire-resistance

It's the plug at the end of extension cable that need careful manual monitoring, make sure no overheating.

The 3-pin domestic plug of the car cable is monitored by the EVSE.

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

Like i have.

A suitable extension cable to take the electricity to outside to plug into.

Getting plugged inside at Midnight to be sure to be sure of 100% in the morning.

The 3 pin charging cable that came with the MINI stopped working last week so got swapped for one i have for taking in the car when away. The cars setting to start charging Off Peak or to be ready for departure or to precondition is unreliable.

PS

Poundland was sold for £1 last week. I must check out any clearances at stores that are closing and get a few extension cables, maybe some fire extinguishers as well.

Using a cheap imported lead is a recipe for a disaster, 2.5Kw flowing to electrical heater at 250V is 10A exactly and if your voltage is 220 that becomes 11.363A. The minimum cable size for that would be 1.5mm2 and for for cables of 10m or more in length that would increase to 2.5mm2 to 4mm2 to allow for volt drop to be within acceptable safety standards.

Most of the extension leads sold in DIY sheds etc are going to be in the realms of 0.75mm2 to 1.0mm2 cable and maybe on the more expensive leads 1.25mm2 or 1.5mm2.

Cheaper discount stores will be anything from 0.3mm2 to 0.75mm2, even though the actual product packaging might well state that the extension lead is rated at 10A, it isn't, this really is an area why it is vital for safety sake to gen up on the subject.

@Graham Butcher You do realise it is the car that can be set to 10 amp max.

& that i am pulling your wire.

So.

That is fine then as not cheap but is imported. Not bought from a DIY Shed though.

Who do i go to in the UK to buy one Made in Britain & where do i have to purchase it from and can i use your name and ask for a discount?

British craftsmanship, & British Standards for British Use and Britain will be a safer place and we will be healthier wealthier and wise.

God only knows how we manage to survive as long as we do with Imported cheap crap.

Bloody killers selling their junk direct to your home. I will have Ronan Keating in my head all night now. If tomorrow never comes.

Edited 16 June, 202516 Jun by Ootohere

2 hours ago, Ootohere said:

@Graham Butcher You do realise it is the car that can be set to 10 amp max.

& that i am pulling your wire.

So.

That is fine then as not cheap but is imported. Not bought from a DIY Shed though.

Who do i go to in the UK to buy one Made in Britain & where do i have to purchase it from and can i use your name and ask for a discount?

British craftsmanship, & British Standards for British Use and Britain will be a safer place and we will be healthier wealthier and wise.

God only knows how we manage to survive as long as we do with Imported cheap crap.

Bloody killers selling their junk direct to your home. I will have Ronan Keating in my head all night now. If tomorrow never comes.

Well you will know how people love to cut corners etc, eBay buyers etc, you will be amazed just how lapse we are in allowing dangerous goods into the country. The claims that are written into the packaging, none of which are true or even present.

Look at these 3 videos by another electrical engineer on a extension sold by eBay sellers, where he puts it through tests to show how it could easily cause a fire and it has a claimed rating of 10A., enjoy. 👍👍

Seeing as this is now the extension lead thread I will add my 2p.

I used to charge my Volvo PHEV using one for most of the 3 years I had it.

But I did buy one that was designed to handle 13amps continuously and the charger was only 10amps.

It was fine.

I've got lots of those multiway extension lead things at home. Very useful. They are all rated at 13 amps and the cable is a pretty chunky thing but they don't often get heavy loads put through them. An electric iron occasionally perhaps but the main point of them is for multiple small load items and for that they do a very good job.

9 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Most of the extension leads sold in DIY sheds etc are going to be in the realms of 0.75mm2 to 1.0mm2 cable and maybe on the more expensive leads 1.25mm2 or 1.5mm2.

0.5 mm cable: 1.7418 ohm over 20 meters.

Same calculation as before:

20 meter cable using a 0.5 mm cable = less than 2 ohm resistance.

10 amp squared * 2 ohm = 200 w of heat to dissipate.

A lot more heating power but still shouldn't be disastrous as long as cable has adequate airflow (eg. not covered).

Me thinks this is another Graham's social media "engineering" and "ask before jumping in". 😉

I build my own extension cables for EV charging.

I use Arctic cable spec of either 2.5mm or 4mm thick cable if I can get hold at of reasonably priced.

The thick cable runs as a good heat sink.

Even so it is recommended to change 13a sockets every couple of years if being used regularly for EV charging.

I plan to one mains socket to a Commando 16a socket and commando plug and socket but pushing a socket through letter box is another challenge.

EU spec houses seem to have better specs than UK houses sadly.

Edited 18 June, 202518 Jun by lol-lol

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

I build my own extension cables for EV charging.

I use Arctic cable spec of either 2.5mm or 4mm thick cable if I can hold of reasonable priced.

The thick cable runs as a good heat sink.

Even so it is recommended to change 13a sockets every couple of years if being used regularly for EV charging.

I plan to one mains socket to a Commando 16a socket and commando plug and socket but pushing a socket through letter box is another challenge.

EU spec houses seem to have better specs than UK houses sadly.

That is very sensible, good cable size lowers losses and as you, acts as a heatsink, and using a commando plug/socket is the way to go.

If you are going down 3-pin domestic socket route, there is a new BS socket that is higher rated for EV charging.

BS 1363/EV

https://toughleads.co.uk/products/ev-socket?variant=45605457428802

Could also install larger blue 32 amp commando socket and charge EV at full 7 kW with the right granny EVSE. Eg I can buy an adapter for the Tesla mobile connector to work with 32 amp commando and charge full power.

https://shop.tesla.com/en_gb/product/blue-adapter---16a_32a-

But unless specifically installed by the electrician, none of those solutions provide open-protected earth neutral (O-PEN) fault protection. Only UK spec wall mounted EVSE do.

Or get your house converted from TN to TT earthing. Cheaper EVSE install and don't need to worry about O-PEN fault regardless of charging method.

All houses with backup battery solution would need to be converted to TT because the grid PEN cannot be relied upon during power cut.

All the talk of building extension cables and cross sections for your granny charger.... just buy a granny charger with a long enough cable in the first place. My granny charger has a 10m lead as I knew if I needed to use a 3-pin plug socket it was likely I couldn't get parked close up. The 10m cable is downstream of the control box, so that can usually be kept somewhere dry if being used. No 3-pin plug connections in the middle of a drive to get wet.

I've never struggled to reach a socket the dozen times or so I've used it.

Edited 18 June, 202518 Jun by Luckypants

2 hours ago, Luckypants said:

All the talk of building extension cables and cross sections for your granny charger.... just buy a granny charger with a long enough cable in the first place. My granny charger has a 10m lead as I knew if I needed to use a 3-pin plug socket it was likely I couldn't get parked close up. The 10m cable is downstream of the control box, so that can usually be kept somewhere dry if being used. No 3-pin plug connections in the middle of a drive to get wet.

I've never struggled to reach a socket the dozen times or so I've used it.

That's the sensible thing to do, but we all know that it is not always possible for loads of reasons. I'm sure if we are being honest that everyone has come across people taking massive risks with electricity daily.

The 11 kW cable and charging unit i am back to using is twice the length of the one that came with the MINI.

When i have to use an extension cable when away from home i have one of the boxes with me, but the charger has always been long enough from the building or outside socket to the car.

Gray cable one is the one from MINI / BMW.

I had the Boxes and extension cables before a EV for using for the vacuum cleaner or the Green House fan heater that was used to pre heat vehicles, or keep ice free during the day / night.

Edited 18 June, 202518 Jun by Ootohere

Bar stewards at SEPA Stirling. This is a public charger and DC and AC can operate at the same time. This crowd think just taking up a bay as a parking place is ok. I will try having a word inside, and ask why they no longer charge or park in what are now empty bays and chargers.

Edited 19 June, 202519 Jun by Ootohere

The gentleman in the building was dead nice. He could move the van, he will point out to others about awkward for some if bay just blocked... Like these educated people never knew

The flap not opening on the van and it needs charged to go to Balloch. ****** kk s

Not allowed to use rear car parks since damaged cars from roof in storm coming off. This is bloody Scotland, fix the roof while the sun shines. SEPA. You get weather forecast.

Finally the new DC charger is powered up at Girvan harbour. New one had no tethered AC on the side, so no 22 or 43 AC now.

Octopus doing free electricity between 2pm and 3pm today.

Garages doing some free fuel to compete ? A few litres maybe. BOGOF on the first 4 litres.

On 13/06/2025 at 21:16, classic said:

I’m not that keen on suv type vehicles but it is a fact as you get older they are definitely easier to get in and out of.

To keep on topic of ev the Skoda Enyaq is the most comfortable and easy to get out of car I have ever driven. I absolutely love the Superb, but they are low.

Engine wise, I know many disagree, but I wouldn’t touch a euro 6 tdi from any manufacturer with a barge pole.

The ease of getting in and out of an Enyaq is what made me buy one

I had an MG5 before and that’s lower than my mk2 Octavia