8 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

OBD2 devices are cheaper than the £100 you seem to think they are

Yes I know, have a quick reread of what I put.  Prices have dropped no end over the years.  Here is just one example of OBDEleven, "next generation device", "Pro pack", "Officially licensed by Volkswagen Group (VAG)" (unit is above what is normally required) . - https://obdeleven.com/en/home/62-pro-pack-0758277987813.html

 

 

9 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Trust me, if a EFB battery lasted 8 years it would be a fluke.

Uhm, probably on your car and your use. 😄

 

 

9 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

You put of faith in charging your battery off the car, this is not scientifically proven.

IF you put your mind to it and expanded the reasons for possibly doing so you'd work out why this could be so.  Of course you can charge the battery on the car, and still connected, there are reasons why often it's better not to do so, particularly for those of a more modern mindset and experience.  There are more than just you reading these posts and they may think the car does it all for them and when it doesn't then it must be the car or more likely the battery at fault so go to the possibly unnecessary expense of changing the battery well before its time.

 

Normally you shouldn't need to charge the battery, I can think of only once in my 45 years of owning and driving cars that I've needed to recharge a battery using a battery charger on a car that I've owned and that was my fault for flattening the battery by doing something wrong but I'm an old person and understand the importance of the car battery and had cars that would now be old and very old (vintage!) the more modern and latest cars have so much more reliance on the battery and charging system

 

 

9 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

A car that is working correctly and driven regularly and is not stopped and started every 2 minutes is all the battery requires. The cars charging system will take care of the battery without any intervention from you, fact.

You are taking a very narrow view on this.  Other reports on here and elsewhere and with the breakdowns services (and possibly you and your vehicle) prove otherwise - facts (plural).  😉

 

How does a battery know that it is being charged on or off of a car and how does it react differently?

 

For someone who has only charged a vehicle battery once in 45 years you  have very strong opinionated views on the subject but practically zero experience.

 

Ditto for not having removed a wheel in 9 years, probably 10 now as that was posted a long time ago.

 

Ditto for being an old person (like many of us) and not having worked on your own cars since your 30's.

 

Ditto for your opinionated views on VCDS and other diagnostic systems when you have never owned or used one and have relied upon your neighbour or someone on here.

 

And you say Graham is taking a narrow view! At least his is one of actual physical experience and not Googling.

My stalking troll has once again not read what I've put or deliberately chosen to misunderstand.  I have previously tried to give answers to all his questions to me be he didn't reply when I asked a question of him so I thought I'd not put up with this one-sided attitude and ignored all his posts at and about me but just as explanation now.

 

I didn't put I've only once charged a car battery, I've done quite a few for neighbours and friends (some of who were also neighbours).

 

I've removed lots of wheels, it was the bloody silly VW bolts instead of studs that gave me sciatica, last time was a couple of weeks ago, all four on the vehicle.

 

I really wish I hadn't worked on my cars since my 30s unfortunately again I was working on my car only a few weeks ago.

 

I can have views on  VCDS and other diagnostic systems without owning them, obviously not to the same depth but I've never said I've owned or used these machines, I don't need to own these to say I don't like what I've seen and know of them, I can say I don't like anything I want to, I have used my neighbour's scan tool because it's a good tool and I have free access to it.

 

My stalking troll obviously isn't as diligent as he used to be, I've obviously been losing my power of attraction for him which is good in one way but may mean others are having to put up with it, or ignore it, in my place.

 

If only I wasn't so attractive.  🤣

 

Edited 11 September, 20223 yr by nta16
ETA: own these - remove repeated words

Oooofffff I think we approach behind the bike shed at playtime time!!  :-()

5 minutes ago, Frenchtone said:

Oooofffff I think we approach behind the bike shed at playtime time!!  :-()

I think the troll is more after a pile on, a small gang of the like (small)minded, bullies are usually very cowardly.

 

I don't need to wait for play time or go behind a bike shed, I'm here and now but I'd sooner be left alone or at least not picked on.

 

Obviously I'm the one that will get the blame as I'm not the weaker - so I walk away. 🙃

 

You have posted that it had been at least 9 years since you had changed a wheel.

 

You have posted that you stopped working on your own vehicles in your 30's.

 

You posted"I can think of only once in my 45 years of owning and driving cars that I've needed to recharge a battery using a battery charger on a car that I've owned"

 

Now you say different, that is your priveledge.

 

Given the content of your postings I know which I believe.

 

I don't doubt that you would be keen to remove the batteries of your friends and neighbours cars to take them away for a long low slow charge and that you would ask them for a Kleenex of a dipstick wipe.

I can't think why I'd ever put that I've never changed a wheel for 9 years, though I can imagine it deliberately being misread (or my  unintentional poor typing/grammar in a post).  There's loads of evidence on the internet that I've reluctantly had to work on my cars, I'm not saying I was very good at it (but sometimes above the level of paid professional mechanics) or that it was to any real technical level but I have done it.  I've even worked on other people's cars to a good enough level to get through an MoT at least.  See my tagline though. 

 

I stopped working on my cars decades back - but then I had to start again, again I can imagine deliberate misreading (or my  unintentional poor typing/grammar in a post).

 

I can think of only once in my 45 years of owning and driving cars that I've needed to recharge a battery using a battery charger on a car that I've owned.

 

I have removed the batteries of friends and neighbours cars to take them away for a long, low, slow charge at my home using my chargers and electric and I've used white tissue paper to better see the oil and marking on a dipstick - you may troll and stalk me but thank gawd you not been at my side all my life.

 

Now give it a rest please.

 

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

I think the troll is more after a pile on, a small gang of the like (small)minded, bullies are usually very cowardly.

 

I don't need to wait for play time or go behind a bike shed, I'm here and now but I'd sooner be left alone or at least not picked on.

 

Obviously I'm the one that will get the blame as I'm not the weaker - so I walk away. 🙃

 

Well maybe J.R. has a point, and please don't take this the wrong way.

 

I have no doubt that you are trying to be helpful when you post replies here but I have to tell you that your knowledge of batteries is incorrect. Have you actually taken onboard that I'm an electrical engineer by trade and started out in the industry working for what was then the National Bus Company as an auto electrical engineer. There were zero college courses back then for that trade, the nearest being just electrical engineering, for which I did many courses over an 8 year period finishing up with HNC in electrical engineering as a qualification, similar to that of a consulting engineer.  I only asked here for help because, the systems have become much more complicated since I was last active as an auto electrician. For the last 40 years I have been more active in the technical sales side and design side of electrical engineering and enjoyed companies cars which I never had to maintain, so have not bothered to keep upto date with systems, but battery behaviour remains constant.

 

With modern batteries there really is zero need to trickle charge a battery in a car that is used frequently, if the electrical system is in good order, it will keep the battery charged under normal conditions. Cars these days have alternators which can deliver a high charge if required with the engine just ticking over, no longer is it necessary to have high engine revs or have to drive for a long time / distance to replace the power extracted to start the engine, just a few minutes running time is enough.

 

Unless there is a damaged wiring loom or a faulty switch holding a circuit active which is drawing more current than your battery charger can supply, is there any need to ever remove the battery from the car in order to charge it. In fact if there was a damaged wiring loom then that will make itself known in so many ways besides running the battery down, the worst case scenario would be a fire with the likely outcome being a total loss of the car, especially if some amateur electrician has been bypassing the fuses or replacing them with wire etc.

 

Yes you do see and hear of people who have cars in storage fitting a trickle charger to their car as a permanent fitment. The reason for that is that with modern cars and this is even worse with the larger more upmarket cars with extra bells and whistles, is because of the many control units that constantly talk to each other via the databus, draining the battery. Its no fun storing your fun summer car, or the car that you might keep for special occasions, that refuses to start after its been sat in the garage for 6 months, and once you get it started, the dashboard lights up like a Christmas tree because the battery voltage has dropped to such a low value that the control units have lost all the stored data and require resetting etc.

 

Modern cars do not like having the battery being removed and then refitted, as some parts of the management systems will have their memories erased and will need to be reset etc.

 

This is why it is dangerous to try and come over to others in these forums as if you are something of an expert, which is precisely how you portray yourself, even though you have this "Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything." as part of your signature.

 

For the record, I'm now 73 years and electronics is my hobby.

Edited 11 September, 20223 yr by Graham Butcher

You and he are missing the point YOU have taken on what HE described me as , I have never made out I'm an expert, I put my reason for removing the battery at the very start, there are other reasons to it, that was before you let it be known of your background, and I later put about the memory settings.

 

If I'm confident in my experience that is only because I have that experience, I try to help others that might not know or don't have that experience not argue with those that actual know, or those that think they already know all.

 

I'm not sure how I should take what you've put the right way but hopefully this is it, whether it's what you want or it satisfies you I very much doubt.  I have absolutely no doubt your general knowledge of the subject is well beyond mine but as you've put you've been out of looking after your own car for a while.

 

Do me a favour and please point out where what has been put by my stalking troll is correct as unlike others I don't mind to be told where I've made mistakes.

 

To stop trolls and prevent fooling people like yourself I'll try to put my tagline as the opening line of my posts, I don't want anyone thinking I'm going to introduce them to a Nigerian General with a great investment opportunity, sorry but I can't take these accusations too seriously. 😁 

 

I probably made the mistake of joking about you not being able to undo the battery monitor connector, even though I'm sure I put I struggled to do the same, I thought you'd see it as the joke it was.  Never mind we'll go our separate ways with no one really hurt.  If you want to join following me and point out all the mistakes I make that's fine by me but please don't deliberately misunderstand as that vacancy is already taken. 😉

 

I will compliment you if that's a recent photo as you look younger than 73.

 

When I read your reply Graham I feared that for your trouble you would become labelled as a small minded bully piling on.

 

Agreed about modern vehicles, minimum 90 ampere alternator (charging at tickover as alternators always have) larger capacity batteries, geared starters and engine management systems and multiple crank & cam positioning sensors that mean the engine will always start in less than one revolution, I would be surprised if it even took 2 minutes to replenish the drain from around one second of cranking, I hav had voltmeters in the last 2 vehicles (aftermarket head units can cause the Canbus to remain active) and the charging voltage drops away within 2 minutes.

 

There is no good reason to remove a battery from the vehicle in the event that it does require charging and several good reasons not to do so as you point out.

 

If someone repeatedly posts rubbish in an authorative manner then others will occasionally call them out for it, that several people have done so should indicate something other than them being small minded bullies and cowards.

I can’t cope with wading through all that unpleasant stuff (the reason I drifted away from this forum years ago) so I will go back to the first post, is the battery original and is the car stop/start?

46 minutes ago, Crasher said:

I can’t cope with wading through all that unpleasant stuff (the reason I drifted away from this forum years ago) so I will go back to the first post, is the battery original and is the car stop/start?

No the battery is not original, it is 3 years old and yes the car is stop/start. The original battery lasted 6 years and I dare say that it might have lasted a bit longer if it wasn't for the fact of the alternator belt tensioner failed and shredded the belt and I had to call out the RAC because the battery gave out whilst limping into a dealer in Cambridge for repairs 3 years ago. It did get me from RAF Lakenheath to Bottisham on the A14 before it lost total power and the system shut down, knackering the battery completely. The RAC took a long time to get to me and by the time they arrived the dealers had shut and I had to get back to Chelmsford. They took my battery off the car and put it on charge in their van, fitted a spare battery to my car and escorted me back to Bishops Stortford, where they swapped the battery over to my original again so I could limp back home and to my dealer who repaired the car again, the following day.

 

The unpleasant stuff, well I didn't think it was that bad really, but the others members do have a point, and I know that nta16 was trying to be really helpful, but it is dangerous when you appear to be relying on what others have claimed without any real knowledge of the subject. Like I said earlier, I know all about batteries and charging etc, I'm fully qualified, and basic battery theory has not changed, but has changed since I was last fully active in auto electrical field is the all the computer technology being employed in cars these days, hence why I was seeking advice here in the first instance, as there is now a massive extra layer of complexity involved in the controls these days.

 

 

2 hours ago, nta16 said:

You and he are missing the point YOU have taken on what HE described me as , I have never made out I'm an expert, I put my reason for removing the battery at the very start, there are other reasons to it, that was before you let it be known of your background, and I later put about the memory settings.

 

If I'm confident in my experience that is only because I have that experience, I try to help others that might not know or don't have that experience not argue with those that actual know, or those that think they already know all.

 

I'm not sure how I should take what you've put the right way but hopefully this is it, whether it's what you want or it satisfies you I very much doubt.  I have absolutely no doubt your general knowledge of the subject is well beyond mine but as you've put you've been out of looking after your own car for a while.

 

Do me a favour and please point out where what has been put by my stalking troll is correct as unlike others I don't mind to be told where I've made mistakes.

 

To stop trolls and prevent fooling people like yourself I'll try to put my tagline as the opening line of my posts, I don't want anyone thinking I'm going to introduce them to a Nigerian General with a great investment opportunity, sorry but I can't take these accusations too seriously. 😁 

 

I probably made the mistake of joking about you not being able to undo the battery monitor connector, even though I'm sure I put I struggled to do the same, I thought you'd see it as the joke it was.  Never mind we'll go our separate ways with no one really hurt.  If you want to join following me and point out all the mistakes I make that's fine by me but please don't deliberately misunderstand as that vacancy is already taken. 😉

 

I will compliment you if that's a recent photo as you look younger than 73.

 

Thanks, I was 65 in that photo.

 

To be completely fair to all concerned, you were trying to help me but in a manner that came across as you knew what you were talking about and with an apparent conviction that what you were saying was gospel, and it wasn't. It was just misguided and if someone had followed your advice and removed the battery and gave it a slow charge and then refitted it they could have been faced loads of warning lights and error messages and not known how to reset everything and had to get their local dealer / service dept involved at great cost.  Its a classic example of just how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, no matter well-intentioned the advice was.

 

I think that the trolls, as you call them, are really trying to tell you that maybe you are trying to sound far more knowledgable than you are and that can be dangerous at times.

 

I enjoyed our chats all the same and found it interesting that your wife has driven a Bristol MW bus, personally I preferred the RE's with semi-automatic gearboxes.

Graham, I think you have been twisted by my No. 1 fan, you know the very creepy and unsettling sort of fan. 😬  I can't reason with him and believe me I have tried, I've answered his questions but he'd not answer when I asked a question of him - but enough of that.

 

Let me try again with you.

 

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

To be completely fair to all concerned, you were trying to help me but in a manner that came across as you knew what you were talking about and with an apparent conviction that what you were saying was gospel, and it wasn't. It was just misguided and if someone had followed your advice and removed the battery and gave it a slow charge and then refitted it they could have been faced loads of warning lights and error messages and not known how to reset everything and had to get their local dealer / service dept involved at great cost.  Its a classic example of just how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, no matter well-intentioned the advice was.

I wasn't making out anything was gospel but you wouldn't accept anything I and another was putting which is up to you but you were asking and we were try to tell.

 

They wouldn't have been facing "loads of warning lights and error messages and not known how to reset everything and had to get their local dealer / service dept involved at great cost."

 

And I agree a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

 

Let's start with disconnecting the battery, you will agree (I hope!) that disconnecting the battery with it in the car is no different to the battery or the car's computers to disconnecting it and removing it, the battery and car's computers don't know any difference, you don't have to take the battery out of the car but you can if you want to. -

 

 

 

 

Now when the battery is disconnected the following is a list of what the Driver's Handbook says needs resetting but you may find other Superb owners can tell you that not all on the list actually needs resetting.  But funnily enough anyway they still recommend you have the vehicle checked by a specialist garage, perhaps that's a free(?!) check they offer(?), wonder if they'd ever find additional work. - 

 

 

 

On my wife's 2015 Fabia Mk3 only the time of day clock needed resetting despite the following list from her 'Operator's Manual' (no doubt the petrol mileage info was lost but I never look at that) - 

 

 

All, except for the last insert, are from the (05. 2013) Superb Manual. - https://manual.skoda-auto.com/004/en-com/Models

 

I don't know if that satisfies anything for you, if you want to know why I put about taking the battery off the car you can direct message me (or whatever it's called) and I'll be happy to explain whether you'd like it or accept it is a different matter, anything we put through this site is recorded on the site so we're both safe.

 

On a very serious note, a photo that's 8 years out of date is very out of date, good job this isn't a dating site as I'd think you were being a bit deceitful and withholding 😉 -  not that I'd know whether it's swipe where for what. 

 

Edited 12 September, 20223 yr by nta16
spelling

You are missing the point, I know all about batteries and how to charge them but if you knew anything about modern day batteries, you ought to have realised that unless you have an exceptional old battery, these instructions in the manual are actually referring to earlier style of battery. It mentions about vent plugs, I have not had a battery in a car with vent plugs for over 20 years now, it also mentions about having the acid level checked, how do you check that when the battery is completely sealed? In all the cars for the last 20+ years, I have had, there has been no way to see inside the battery to either physically see the acid level or measure its strength using a hydrometer.

 

As is often the way with technical manuals, they are not written by the engineers but proper writers and will very often cut and past certain bits from other manuals and very often these are not picked by the proofreaders. So very often you will spot these issues mistakes if you actually know what to look out for.

 

I don't know why you keep saying that people would not have loads of warning lights and error messages, modern equipment store a certain amount of energy in capacitors to keep memories etc retained while changing a battery over, but after a while this charge slowly becomes used up and the control units will suffer from energy starvation and forget their settings. For the uninitiated this spells trouble.

Please note - I am not a mechanic or expert in anything.

 

So I have to highlight all the bits rather than you see them for yourself. 

 

 

Yes I know about energy stored, so how much would you need to rush a battery "rapid charging" to get it done before on battery reconnection there wouldn't be all these warnings lights and desperately important settings forgotten(?).  

 

There are probably errors logged in your car for loads of reasons but they don't bring up warnings and if not cleared can be cleared at next use of a scan tool, do you need to be told the battery was disconnected by errors and worry about it, what about the other errors that could have been logged that you don't see and may have been deleted, do you need to know every time the car or one of its computer's has a brain-fart.

 

Having read the 'Operator's Manual' for my wife's Fabia it seems more likely to me that the book is written by a trainee Germain engineer translated to Chinese before translated to English, if written by proper writers and proof-readers then they must be at my level of skill!

 

Believe it or not I can read (to some sort of level) and have seen technical publications and can notice mistakes sometimes, you are very condescending towards me but I let it go.  You know you know and know I don't know so no point us exchanging posts.

 

And just to complete the set and close out, perhaps of interest to others, plus never go to bed on an argument. 😊

 

Edited 12 September, 20223 yr by nta16

Oh dear, you seem to think I'm anti you when I'm not. We all need to remember that there could well be people who don't have access to OBD2 devices at all, or others who don't know how to reset alarms etc. They are the ones that could easily be confused and make mistakes following poorly thought out but extremely well intentioned advice. 

 

Thanks

 

10 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Oh dear, you seem to think I'm anti you when I'm not

Join the club!

 

It's all terribly familiar..............

3 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Join the club!

 

It's all terribly familiar..............

Yes, its a scene I have seen played out in many other forums as well, there is always that one person who desperately so wants to the one to resolve the problem.....

Indeed, I was actually referring to you being led down the path to becoming Panto Villain number 2.

 

Having had exactly the same introduction I no longer engage but do keep an eye on the postings, I only scan through them as they are often so long, rambling and containing the same old incorrect mantras and cut n pastes from Google.

 

You can witness the verbosity and rambling increase with the affluence of incohol, I'm not surprised at the lack of recall of  the things that have slipped out and the outrage on the occasions where it is appropriate to bring them up.

Indeed, don't worry, I wasn't going to fall into that particular trap. I love this car, it was my old company car, I was the one who did the deal with the dealer when it was new and the company had it on a leasing contract and when I eventually decided to retire because the company politics and backstabbing was doing my head in, I did a deal with the leasing company and brought it from them. That means I know the cars entire history, it has never been thrashed, always serviced on the dot when the time was right, and it is the best car I have ever owned or had as a company car, so it made perfect sense to buy it, I was the sole keeper and driver of it from new, no problems whatsoever.

 

Ok I didn't know just how to unplug the battery monitor lead, I tried, and it didn't want to budge, even with the locking tab released, so I thought, knowing just how much these cars talk to various sensors and if they don't get a satisfactory reply back, they can either go into full melt down or limp home mode, neither of which I wanted to happen. I was also well aware of how the local service agent is struggling with Covid, yes it is still a major issue, despite the media and Government not talking about it, so I knew that they were looking at a minimum of 6 weeks waiting time for service / repairs and I need the car working as this weekend I have to take my wife and Sister in Law to Heathrow for 2 weeks in Madeira so no point in running the risk of breaking anything. But somehow that became a bit of a joke, which was not necessary.

 

To illustrate a point, my rear offside seat belt got accidentally frayed and partially cut through. The dealer ordered a new one, and it has today arrived, and they rang me to tell me that it was now there ready to be fitted. The problem is now that they told me to call them back to arrange a date for fitting and that date would be at least 6 weeks away I was told. Add into that equation, that since we are now no longer part of the EU, getting spares into the UK is a logistical nightmare and what with my particular model being very rare with just 14 left out of 16 registered in the UK, even further compounds the problem. The car is the top of the models line up and has better space, legroom and in many cases comfort and features and fittings to rival or beat the Mercedes-Benz S classes, I'm not going to take chances with it.

Edited 12 September, 20223 yr by Graham Butcher

Update time on this saga, yesterday morning the car would not start when I was trying to take my wife to work, I have RAC assistance, I decided to call them out and after a couple of hours they arrived and checked the battery and confirmed that it was finally toast after testing it with their high-tech test rig. They jumped the car so that I could get across the city, armed with my 4 year warranty on the battery, to my local GSF auto parts who supplied that battery just 3 years ago.

 

I gave them the RAC test report, but they said that they needed to do their own test to either accept the warranty claim or reject it. The put their tester on the battery and concurred with the RAC, and within a few minutes produced an identical brand-new battery for me, which I fitted and alls well that ends well.

I've already noticed that my MPG figure is improving due to the stop / start system working more than it has a for a long time when in heavy traffic 👍

I'm actually noticing that the car has a feeling of enhanced power being delivered to the wheels now, just shows how much energy the alternator was robbing from the engine just to be able to recharge a failing battery. The decline in performance is so slow that you don't notice it, but once that burden is taken, you suddenly become aware of the increased performance as a result of the battery quickly replenishing the power taken out by the starting process.