Hello, I would like to upgrade my brakes on my Favorit (1994 Silver Line, 1.6 16V AFH/AVY 125hp)

 

Front - I know that I can use Mondeo Mk1 calipers and Mondeo Mk1 256mm discs OR I can use Mondeo Mk1 calipers and Grand Scenic 300mm discs. 

 

Rear - I can use Polo 6N2 GTI complete stub axles and everything else. 

 

So are there any recommendations for better brakes? I will upgrade to 15 inch alloy wheels with 195/50/R15 tires. Should I upgrade my master brake cylinder? I found some info about Audi 100 master cylinder on Favorit, but I am not sure.

iirc, Mondeo had 54 or 60mm front pistons, Polo GTI also has 54mm, too, according to my quick search - 54mm is same as Felicia, so I think that it should work perfectly. 60mm could cause some issues with brake balance with Polo rears.

On 16/04/2023 at 20:38, vucko1011 said:

I know that I can use

 

Few months ago i visited the most famous Brake specialist in Athens to make an upgrade to my Felicia brakes.

I said to him that from Skoda forums i have read that the A guy did this, the B guy did that etc but was didn't impressed, he said he know about these ''patents'' from many other cars but he insisted that: ONLY if many guys have done absolutely the same and that worked after many Kilometres on the road-track then the new customer can do this.

 

Yes the C guy may done some ''miracles'' and posted them but he had to certify that what he done worked perfectly while braking in curbs-straight lines-on rain-on emergency braking situation etc.

There are so many other factors (car factory balance-tyres-rims-suspension-ABS) that the owner must take consideration otherwise may end-up with a fancy brake system but in ''tough times'' can turn to a nightmare.

The ''ready to installed'' kit's are much preferable but we the older car owners can not have often that luxury.

24 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

 

Few months ago i visited the most famous Brake specialist in Athens to make an upgrade to my Felicia brakes.

I said to him that from Skoda forums i have read that the A guy did this, the B guy did that etc but was didn't impressed, he said he know about these ''patents'' from many other cars but he insisted that: ONLY if many guys have done absolutely the same and that worked after many Kilometres on the road-track then the new customer can do this.

 

 

You shouldn't need brake upgrades on a stock car, but what's your choice once you get twice as much power?

 

Ford calipers are tried and tested solution - they are basically same Girling model as ones used by Felicia. Only thing that varies is source of brake discs.

1 hour ago, Papez said:

 

You shouldn't need brake upgrades on a stock car, but what's your choice once you get twice as much power?

 

Ford calipers are tried and tested solution

 

I didn't said about those kits which have everything but for those patents in which try to "marry" things.

No matter if the parts they are from well known brands the driver must know from other drivers test if these are working in every road situation.

Many years back in Greek auto-forums some guys wrote negative comments after made patents because their car wasn't controllable at the last meters of the braking.

Others made complains that they couldn't find new parts and installed used calipers, others that every time had to replace or fix something had a nightmare trying in various stores to find parts etc.

IF there is a certified and proved by the time brake solution then GO.

19 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

IF there is a certified and proved by the time brake solution then GO.

And if there isn't? Trying to stop 150hp Favorit with stock brakes? We are talking about a Favorit with swapped engine - such car should be never driven on a public road anyway. Only way to make it legally safe is to certify it as a whole.

 

I wouldn't even consider "kits" as the safest option. I have seen countless of "certified" damper/spring set that didn't differ between hatchback/combi or engine variants, even though "inferior" stock suspension does..

 

19 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

the driver must know from other drivers test if these are working in every road situation.

 

The driver should know how his car, but not from other drivers. I have seen countless of advices from other drivers to remove pressure limiter/weight regulator from a Felicia. Is that safe?

 

19 hours ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Many years back in Greek auto-forums some guys wrote negative comments after made patents because their car wasn't controllable at the last meters of the braking.

 

This really isn't about used parts, more about brake settings - especially F/R balance. Late Favorit and Felicia is already mix and match of parts from the factory - fronts are Ford Sierra, Rears are MK3 golf, ABS system is from Polo and main cylinder for ABS is Audi (iirc). But they are set up to work together. This has to be done individually on a modded car.

 

 

Edited 20 April, 20233 yr by Papez

17 minutes ago, Papez said:

We are talking about a Favorit with swapped engine - such car should be never driven on a public road anyway. Only way to make it legally safe is to certify it as a whole.

So Favorit "kit cars" (a real thing from Group A rally regulations) should never have been allowed to be registered?

18 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

So Favorit "kit cars" (a real thing from Group A rally regulations) should never have been allowed to be registered?

1. Kit cars had a swapped engine?

2. Rally cars are allowed on a public road outside of the event?

41 minutes ago, Papez said:

But they are set up to work together. This has to be done individually on a modded car.

 

The factory has made many tests in many road situations, the driver that buys parts and tries to make them work together he gambles.

It may work but it may not, so what's next? Drive an unbalanced in brakes car or go to the garage and start again from the beginning?

I have seen many videos from USA that drivers had to make again and again tests and corrections (and of course extra money) to their cars after making patents upgrading their brake system.

Personally (and maybe some other driver too) have not the luxury to test again and again my car in a track to find what's wrong and pay again and again money to correct things.

 

44 minutes ago, Papez said:

The driver should know how his car, but not from other drivers.

 

If 3-4 drivers in the C brand forum make a specific patent and didn't worked to all of them then the 5th that thinks to do the same it doesn't take a huge risk?

In Greece we call them ''volunteer suicide guys".

 

All i am trying to say to @vucko1011 is to ''walk in a certain path" and don't make gimmicks.

 

 

17 minutes ago, Papez said:

1. Kit cars had a swapped engine?

2. Rally cars are allowed on a public road outside of the event?

1. Yes
2. How else do you get them from stage to stage? They are (at least in the UK) normal road registered cars, albeit with usually (but not always) manufacturer design input.

5 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

How else do you get them from stage to stage?

 

This way

 

and if they are many this way

 

5 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

1. Yes
2. How else do you get them from stage to stage? They are (at least in the UK) normal road registered cars, albeit with usually (but not always) manufacturer design input.

1. No, it was still the original Skoda engine, although modified.

2. Stage to stage isn't within the event?

 

also, I wrote 

1 hour ago, Papez said:

Only way to make it legally safe is to certify it as a whole.

 Rally homologation counts as certification of whole car. Brakes, which are discussed here, are also subject to homologation.

 

 

48 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

The factory has made many tests in many road situations, the driver that buys parts and tries to make them work together he gambles.

 

The test were made on a car with 60hp engine. We talk about car with a 150hp engine - that's already gamble outside the scope of the tests.

 

48 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

It may work but it may not, so what's next? Drive an unbalanced in brakes car or go to the garage and start again from the beginning?

You already answered:

41 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

This way

 

I said before, starting with the engine swap, the car is not safe for the public road and everything is driver's responsibility.

 

48 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

I have seen many videos from USA that drivers had to make again and again tests and corrections (and of course extra money) to their cars after making patents upgrading their brake system.

Personally (and maybe some other driver too) have not the luxury to test again and again my car in a track to find what's wrong and pay again and again money to correct things.

 

If you don't have such resources, keep the car stock. Every modification should be tested, even if it's based on "patents" that work for others.

 

48 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

All i am trying to say to @vucko1011 is to ''walk in a certain path" and don't make gimmicks.

 

 

Only certain path is to keep the car stock. Any modification using non-factory parts (and even some that use them) is an uncharted territory. But Ford calipers and disc combinations are atleast documented solutions.

Edited 20 April, 20233 yr by Papez

2 hours ago, Papez said:

And if there isn't? Trying to stop 150hp Favorit with stock brakes? We are talking about a Favorit with swapped engine - such car should be never driven on a public road anyway. Only way to make it legally safe is to certify it as a whole.

 

I wouldn't even consider "kits" as the safest option. I have seen countless of "certified" damper/spring set that didn't differ between hatchback/combi or engine variants, even though "inferior" stock suspension does..

Im totally with you on that, factory has unlimited development budget, at least their components are safe

 

2 hours ago, Papez said:

The driver should know how his car, but not from other drivers. I have seen countless of advices from other drivers to remove pressure limiter/weight regulator from a Felicia. Is that safe?

spin out under braking when cornering then wrap around a tree, what a nice way to go

 

2 hours ago, Papez said:

This really isn't about used parts, more about brake settings - especially F/R balance. Late Favorit and Felicia is already mix and match of parts from the factory - fronts are Ford Sierra, Rears are MK3 golf, ABS system is from Polo and main cylinder for ABS is Audi (iirc). But they are set up to work together. This has to be done individually on a modded car.

they WERE engineered not just thrown together

 

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

How else do you get them from stage to stage? They are (at least in the UK) normal road registered cars, albeit with usually (but not always) manufacturer design input.

dude,KIT CARS are managed BY RACE TEAMS that employ ENGINEERS god damn it, not a bunch of backyard rednecks trying to make their brakes "better",more so they are homologated to extreme safety standards 

 

1 hour ago, Papez said:

Stage to stage isn't within the event?

it is indeed covered by special regs

@Thefeliciahacker You're the one who shares roads with Mercedes general service haulage trucks tuned to something like 1_200 (One thousand two hundred) bhp, about 3 times what they left the Mercedes factory with. Based on the post I'm replying to, I expect you to supply details of the company which re-engineered the vehicles that I can understand (so no Greek language sites) within 6 hours of this post.

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

 

 

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

company which re-engineered the vehicles

you mean the kit cars? which vehicles? engineers I said WITHIN RACE TEAMS

Edited 20 April, 20233 yr by Thefeliciahacker

53 minutes ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

 

you mean the kit cars? which vehicles? engineers I said WITHIN RACE TEAMS

I can not be bothered with being deliberately and selectively misquoted out of context. Do it again and I'll block you too.

3 hours ago, Thefeliciahacker said:

not a bunch of backyard rednecks

 

Let me inform you that the Hillbillies and the Rednecks (moonshiners) back in 1920 era were the first which started improve their cars ( horsepower, bodywork, suspension, bigger rims and tyres) not only for escaping from Police cars but they invented the drifting and the racing in oval tracks (NASCAR).

 

Without them as pioneers the World of Cars and rhe Customisation would be much different than it is now so we must respect their herritage.

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I can not be bothered with being deliberately and selectively misquoted out of context. Do it again and I'll block you too.

Block me, why? 

I don't understand, where we lost the context, what did I do to insult you? 

I simply didn't understand what you meant by "company" 

23 minutes ago, D.FYLAKTOS said:

Without them as pioneers the World of Cars and rhe Customisation would be much different than it is now so we must respect their herritage

With enough trial and error you will make anything work 

12 hours ago, KenONeill said:

1. Yes

 

No swap engine.

 

12 hours ago, Papez said:

1. No, it was still the original Skoda engine, although modified.

 

https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/press-releases/skoda-felicia-kit-car-1995-the-next-chapter-in-an-international-success-story/

 

The most significant changes compared to the production car were under the bonnet: When ŠKODA MOTORSPORT was developing the ŠKODA FELICIA KIT CAR, the team not only had the tried-and-tested OHV engine with a capacity of 1,300 cm³ at its disposal but also an engine with a higher 1.5-litre displacement. It was with this engine that the car was ultimately homologated. Twenty-five years on, the outputs of 136 and 156 hp may seem modest, but the engines were both reliable and light. Since the competition at the time mostly opted for two‑litre four‑cylinder engines, the cars from Mladá Boleslav and their drivers truly had their work cut out on the international rally circuits.

The specialists at ŠKODA MOTORSPORT used the technology of the time to its full potential; the engine’s pistons and crankshaft were forged, it featured OBR multi-point fuel injection, Bosch injectors, Jenswey throttle valves, Champion spark plugs and specially designed sports catalytic converters that did not reduce performance.

 

In Mladá Boleslav, it became clear that the vehicle needed a more powerful engine if it was to be a regular winner in its class. Thanks to the brand’s existing affiliation with the Volkswagen Group, the designers were able to use an OHC four-cylinder engine with a 1.6-litre displacement and multi-point injection, which also made its debut in production vehicles with the winged arrow at the same time.

Volkswagen itself had never used the engine in racing, so ŠKODA MOTORSPORT in Mladá Boleslav was almost entirely responsible for developing it. The pistons, connecting rods and crankshaft of the cast-iron four-cylinder engine were forged, and a new camshaft was used for valve timing. The resulting output of 174 hp meant an increase of eighteen brake horsepower compared to the heavier 1,500 cm3. The greatest advantage of this engine, however, was its wider power band.

 

 

On 20/04/2023 at 09:20, KenONeill said:

Group A rally regulations

 

@vucko1011 I looked up how Group A brakes looked like - there was a 4-piston variant that used aluminium variant of Skoda Rapid/130 calipers. I even found some parts

 

https://speedpro.eu/produkt/predni-kotouce-felicia-favorit-sk-a-255/

https://speedpro.eu/produkt/predni-adapter-kotouce-favorit-felicia/

https://speedpro.eu/produkt/predni-drzak-brzdice-sk-a-felicia-favorit-4-pist/

 

It looks something like this (note different brake disc). Ofcourse, the rest of the brake system is different, too, including brake bias regulator.

Edited 26 April, 20233 yr by Papez

3 hours ago, Papez said:

there was a 4-piston variant that used aluminium variant of Skoda Rapid/130 calipers.

I can't be dead certain from your photo, but I think that is an Estelle/Rapid 130 caliper, painted green.

Skoda 105 120 130 135 136 front brake calipers left right NOS

 

https://oldtimer-shop.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/1446-3_3.jpg

 

https://oldtimer-shop.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/1446-3_1.jpg

 

 

6 hours ago, KenONeill said:

I can't be dead certain from your photo, but I think that is an Estelle/Rapid 130 caliper, painted green.

 

Yep, this is Felicia with a standard 130L/Rapid 4piston as an example. But I found mentions of aluminium calipers derived from these that were used on Favorits.

On 16/04/2023 at 20:38, vucko1011 said:

I will upgrade to 15 inch alloy wheels

 

4 piston calipers fit to them?