Help with o2 sensor / oxygen sensor fault codes

[bigad]

On a Polo 1.4 16v 75bhp

2 Faults Found:

17604 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater Circuit: B1 S1: Electrical Malfunction

P1196 - 35-00 - -

17591 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

P1183 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

The second one is translated into "Linear O2 Sensor / Reference Voltage Short to B+"

A previous 17604 has been cleared, only to reappear 7 days later with the 17591 as well.

So any ideas how to sort the potential cause of these?

What does a short to B+ mean?

Adam

[Chris_55]

"What does a short to B+ mean?"

Short circuit of the affected circuit to another wire live at battery positive voltage.

Usually caused by damaged wiring, however the fault could be inside the O2 sensor itself.

[bigad]

"What does a short to B+ mean?"

Short circuit of the affected circuit to another wire live at battery positive voltage.

Usually caused by damaged wiring, however the fault could be inside the O2 sensor itself.

Thanks Chris, I thought as much. Its an intermitted fault going by the codes - happens every so often :(

Decided to get it replaced - pricey though - £220 supplied and fitted at VW dealer.

Best price online £99.99 delivered from Lambdapower .

Can anyone confirm the oxygen sensor configuration on a 1.4 16v (2002) (engine code bby) - all the online sources I can find show it as a 5-wire, pre cat sensor, but they show nothing for post cat. Is there a post cat sensor? Anyone have any experience of this on similar fabias or polos?

[bigad]

Okay, the plot thickens! (long post)

As the pound is so strong against the dollar I'm now proud to have a registered and activated vag com installation!!!

I ran an autoscan on it tonight - just for fun and found an extra three fault codes :eek:

3 Faults Found:

01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)

30-10 - Open or Short to B+ - Intermittent

01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)

29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent

01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)

28-10 - Short to B+ - Intermittent

Previously I got these ones;

2 Faults Found:

17604 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater Circuit: B1 S1: Electrical Malfunction

P1196 - 35-00 - -

17591 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

P1183 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

The 17591 being Linear O2 Sensor / Reference Voltage Short to B+"

Now to me this seems a bit odd - different components complaining about electrical shorts.

Checked the voltage with engine stopped (though vag-com) - 11.80v

and again with engine running - 14.5ish v (I think)

Does that seem about right? 11.80v seems a bit low to me, and over 14 quite high.

Low and behold, sitting with the engine idling it all went a bit rough (like it wanted to stall) and the CEL came on again.

giving;

17604 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater Circuit: B1 S1: Electrical Malfunction

P1196 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

Readiness: 0000 0000

So, is there any consensus on what to do next? I realise that this heater circuit on the o2 sensor is to do with keeping it hot when the car is cold - I think thats when all of the CEL have appeared - when engine not up to temperature and idling in traffic.

Does it sound like it would be worth replacing the sensor (@ approx

[Chris_55]

I think your battery voltage readings are OK.

I'm fairly sure that there is a measuring block that enables you to read the O2 sensor heating current.

I'm sure if you post the engine code and the full text of the auto scan (including the Module ID's etc.) Sebastian will be able to help you.

You could also try posting here:

VAG-COM diagnostic tool technical support

[bigad]

Thanks Chris

Engine code is BBY

A few logs (first one just a copy of the initial fault codes, not a full autoscan);

Monday, 04 December 2006, 18:04:41

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US

Control Module Part Number: 036 906 034 DD

Component and/or Version: MARELLI 4MV 4963

Software Coding: 00071

Work Shop Code: WSC 00566

2 Faults Found:

17604 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater Circuit: B1 S1: Electrical Malfunction

P1196 - 35-00 - -

17591 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

P1183 - 35-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

FIRST AUTOSCAN;

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-US

Chassis Type: 9N - VW Polo

Scan: 01,02,03,08,09,15,17,19,37,44,45,46,55,56,69

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 01: Engine

Controller: 036 906 034 DD

Component: MARELLI 4MV 4963

Coding: 00071

Shop #: WSC 00566

No fault code found.

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 03: ABS Brakes

Controller: 6Q0 907 379 E

Component: ABS FRONT MK60 0103

Coding: 0001097

Shop #: WSC 00788

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 08: Auto HVAC

Controller: 6Q0 820 045

Component: Klimaanlage X0840

3 Faults Found:

01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)

30-10 - Open or Short to B+ - Intermittent

01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)

29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent

01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)

28-10 - Short to B+ - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 09: Cent. Elect.

Controller: 6Q1 937 049 B

Component: BORDNETZ-SG. 1S31

Coding: 25742

Shop #: WSC 00788

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Skipping Address 15-Airbags

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 17: Instruments

Controller: 6Q0 920 900 X

Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V18

Coding: 01441

Shop #: WSC 00566

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 19: CAN Gateway

Controller: 6N0 909 901

Component: Gateway K<->CAN 1S31

Coding: 00014

Shop #: WSC 00788

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 44: Steering Assist

Controller: 6Q0 423 156 M

Component: LenkhilfeTRW V210

Coding: 00140

Shop #: WSC 00788

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 45: Inter. Monitor

Controller: 6Q0 951 171

Component: Innenraumueberw. 0018

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 46: Central Conv.

Controller: 6Q0 959 433 E

Component: 28 Komfortger

[Uwe@Ross-Tech]

Check the Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater circuit.

Disconnect the sensor and measure the heater element's resistance.

Start the engine and check for voltage going to pins that would connect to the heater..

-Uwe-

[bigad]

Check the Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater circuit.

Disconnect the sensor and measure the heater element's resistance.

Start the engine and check for voltage going to pins that would connect to the heater..

-Uwe-

Thanks.....guess i'll have to locate the sensor then, and follow the cable

Any idea which wires/pins to probe. This is i believe a 5-wire sensor, so I have been looking at this; Lambda Sensors diagnostic advice fault finding and symptoms

Which seems to suggest its not easy to test wideband sensors.

If it helps this is the connector diagram from LambdaPower

So when I probe the heater circuit, what resistance am I looking for?

And for the voltage with the o2 sensor disconnected, am I looking for 12v?

I think it might be difficult to do because its an intermittent fault. Can I log the heater circuit voltage within Vag-Com? I think that would be the most conclusive way, as you can feel the car struggle just before the CEL comes on - a log would show the dip in voltage when the problem arises.

There isn't any danger of damaging anything with running the engine with the o2 sensor disconnected is there?

[Uwe@Ross-Tech]

I don't have details on the BBY engine, but...

The sensor heater will get 12V and it will probably be pulsed on and off. Take a look at what you see in Measuring Blocks, group 040. It should have the heater status (On or Off) and a calculated resistance:

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/030-049.html

There shouldn't be any danger in running the engine at idle for short periods with the oxygen sensor disconnected. However, I would not advise and hour-long full-throttle runs down the autobahn that way..:-)

-Uwe-

[MathiasS]

I don't have details on the BBY engine, but...

The sensor heater will get 12V and it will probably be pulsed on and off. Take a look at what you see in Measuring Blocks, group 040. It should have the heater status (On or Off) and a calculated resistance:

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/030-049.html

There shouldn't be any danger in running the engine at idle for short periods with the oxygen sensor disconnected. However, I would not advise and hour-long full-throttle runs down the autobahn that way..:-)

-Uwe-

I have a similar problem on a Skoda Fabia....

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/fabia/fabia-oxygen-sensor-problem/67259/

Looking at group 040, if the field for the resistance is left blank, how should that be interpreted? There is a value for B1S2, but not for B1S1.

Br,

MathiasS

[Theresias]

Check the AGR valve and see if there are metal chips in it.

[MathiasS]

Check the AGR valve and see if there are metal chips in it.

EGR?

[Theresias]

Yep, EGR (AGR is the German term).

[bigad]

I don't have details on the BBY engine, but...

The sensor heater will get 12V and it will probably be pulsed on and off. Take a look at what you see in Measuring Blocks, group 040. It should have the heater status (On or Off) and a calculated resistance:

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/030-049.html

There shouldn't be any danger in running the engine at idle for short periods with the oxygen sensor disconnected. However, I would not advise and hour-long full-throttle runs down the autobahn that way..:-)

-Uwe-

I've looked at group 040 - nothing, because its a 1 bank system (i think) - so I should have looked at 041; I'll have to try again tomorrow.

The fault recurred this morning too - same fault codes logged;

17604 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heater Circuit: B1 S1: Electrical Malfunction

P1196 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent

Readiness: 0000 0000

Together with the same spurious HVAC codes;

01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)

30-10 - Open or Short to B+ - Intermittent

01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)

29-10 - Short to Ground - Intermittent

01271 - Positioning Motor for Temperature Flap (V68)

28-10 - Short to B+ - Intermittent

- which has me baffled.......

[Tech1e]

Sounds like you need a pre cat lambda probe and try resetting the A/C flap motors in basic settings. (procedure is on here).

[bigad]

Sounds like you need a pre cat lambda probe and try resetting the A/C flap motors in basic settings. (procedure is on here).

Got one,

[Tech1e]

It wont have an effect, it has nothing to do with them. However if the fault isnt sorted with the flap motors as soon as you cycle the ignition the problem will come back.

[bigad]

codes cleared - ignition cycled - autoscan = no codes found :confused:

The two sets of faults seem to happen together.

[Tech1e]

Cant see why, the systems arent connected in that way. But either way both fault codes are common in thier own right and easy to sort out.

[bigad]

I managed to do a very short log of block 041 plus a couple of others.

Started off with engine off, started engine and idled for a couple of minutes. Resistance of pre cat sensor seems a bit strange (resistance jumps up then comes back down, and its a lot different to the post cat sensor). Any comments?? Does pre-cat lambda probe look like it's defective?

Bigad

Lambda log.zip