DampDog

@roottoot Thanks for taking the time to post up that info, much appreciated. Bottom line is we need to view and drive some cars to get a feel for them. There are cars out there just not so many locally.

Yeah. I will have a chat with my mate come the weekend. That said he bought his brand new so isn't to worried about reliability as he is still in warranty. Not 100% but I don't think he's done much in the way of mileage either. Like with so many things it feels a little like I've opened a can of worms. Personally I would be worried about the complexity of a modern diesel as a second hand purchase. Then again I would with the VAG tsi ACT. They are good, but the more complex a thing is, the greater the chance of it catching you out with a substantial repair bill.

Yeah. Just had a quick Google and Euro 6 has been with us since 2015. I didn't actually think it had been with us quite that long. I think the first Karoq's arrived 2018 so they will all be AdBlue/SCR engines. I also overlooked that many of the petrol engines now have Active Cylinder Tech, so that another complicated technology that can go wrong. ( I do miss carburetors and a set of points being as complicated as it got...🙂 ) The diesels are stating to sound like a better bet for long term ownership. I'll have a nosy and see if either the 1.6 or 2.0 have any serious gremlins that have popped up.

Not sure I follow. Are there two 1.6 variants? SCR and non-SCR? if so how do you spot the difference? AdBlue tank next to fuel filler? Does the same apply to the 2.0?

Not sure I'd agree that the VW group are really much worse than anyone else with regards to routine maintenance. As you say at 3-4 years old with 25-35K on the clock you are looking to at least a major service in the near future regardless of manufacturer. I'm not sure that I'd personally want to spend close to 20K on a used car regardless of who built it. Unfortunately 20K doesn't buy a vehicle of that type new, unless it's an MG or Dacia, It complicated by the Karoq being a relatively new vehicle on the market so the niggles are still working their way out, especially for the used buyer outside the warranty period.

I'd not seen that mentioned before. I've seen key fobs being mentioned. Not failures just poor battery life, sub 6 month. This is a car that I've seen locally. Sorry not sure how to paste visible links. normal link below Karoq 1.5tsi Auto

As I've mentioned, I'm just doing a little research on behalf of a relative, it's actually my uncle, and just to give you a little better picture he's all but retired and he's aiming for this to be his probable last car purchase and a I guess a treat for himself. The diesel choice comes from him having diesels for 20+ years and is so what he's used to. However diesels are not the paragon of reliability they once were due to their increasing complexity to meet ever more stringent emission regulations. I've already suggested he at least try a test drive in a petrol version to give him a feel of the car. The 1.5Tsi vs the 1.0Tsi is interesting. I myself run a Polo 1.2Tsi. For such a small engine is surprisingly capable and fuel efficient and has thus far been 100% reliable. However it is quite noticeable how much harder you have to work it with a full load on board, likewise the fuel economy suffers. My gut feeling would be the 1.5tsi would probably do better in a larger vehicle. However as you have mention even with a little dig via "Google" I picked up on cold start poor running issue that have materialized. I happened to be speaking to my mate who runs a 1.5tsi Golf and mentioned it and it reminded him that his did actually have to go in for a software update for that very thing. That sort of brings us back to the possibility of a diesel version. If the petrol ones are tetchy you may as well have a possibly tetchy diesel and have the fuel economy. Whether the 1.6 or the 2.0 is the better option I don't know. I may come down to availability as the lions share appear to be the 1.6 The added complexity of modern diesels does make them less appealing. I'm assuming as I don't really know that the whole of the VAG group engines now use AdBlue to meet the emission targets? My own oppinion is similar to your own in that the more complex things are, the more chance something is going to break of malfunction as the miles add up. I mentioned the 4X4 variant simply because I'd read they can be significantly less fuel efficient than the 2WD version. So that's not really on the wish list. Unfortunately the car needing to be an auto is a must. The reason I'm doing some digging is so that the next purchase doesn't become the dream-car turned money pit!. I'm not clued up in anyway with regards to the reliability of the DSG box or even which version is fitted to the Karoq anyway. I've always held the view that autos are inherently less reliable than manual, but maybe I'm just a dinosaur as even small/cheap cars have the choice of auto from most manufacturers.

I hear what you say with the regards to the diesel. Most of his trips are no more than 30mins or so, say 10 to 15 miles, a few long runs each month. I think he's been lucky with his current diesel that he's had no real issues to date. A mate of mine runs a Golf with the new 1.5tsi engine which I think is shared right across the VAG platform. He's been pleased with it up to yet. I know the new 1.0 tsi is pretty good but I'm not convinced it suits a heavier vehicle. I guessing on his budget that the 4X4 versions will a tad too expensive.

This questions not even for me just a family member who is looking to buy a used Karoq. He struggles with arthritis so favours the higher driving position and wants an auto. He currently runs a VW Jetta 1.6TDi DSG. He also leans towards the idea of another diesel but I suspect that view could be changed. As far as I can see they come in two engine sizes for the diesel a 1.6 or 2.0ltr. Are both of those up to the job or is the 2.0 better suited to a larger vehicle. I assume both engines need adblue due to them being relatively new engines?? Are there any significant issue that crop up or niggles that are common? Budget is £18K ish We've not been able to spot an auto locally, so not even got so far as a test drive as yet, though we have kicked the tyres on a couple this morning just to see what you can get for you money.

Yeah, that information pop's up in a number of threads. I checked mine and it looks like a very early engine CBZ 064XXX with a date stamp of 24/11/10. I bought mine new in April of 2011. Unfortunately that means mine has early type chain😢 I've not had any issues as yet other than an odd little "rasp" starting from cold. That said the car has only done 30,000 miles so is coming up on the zone where people are seeing problems. I spoke to one independent VW chappie who guessed it would be in the region of £450 + parts to replace. (though that was just a quick estimate) That sounds on the low side. I've seen figures ranging from £700-£1400 so it's one to save up for!!

it's a bit of a can of worms really. The cut-in date for the updated/upgraded chain differs across manufacturers and from model to model that use the "same" engine, CBZ-X. Skoda go some way to help you, in that at least they list a "chain-kit" so you can order one off the shelf. I have a Polo Tsi and have been trying to work out the chronology of when and where the different chain and tensioner types cut-in. For the Polo. They originally rolled out of the factory with 03F 109 158 B (The chain that was made out of cheese!) Shortly after that it was updated to 03F 109 158 K (this was just an update, better design, better quality, but same size) There is also an updated chain cover 03F109210D A completely new chain appeared 7/11/11. This 03F109158G was a redesign, and was wider/stronger than the previous chains, requiring different sprockets. The associated tensioners that go with them were also updated, as were the chain guides. I had a little look at Etka for the 2011 Golf and it only appears to list 03F 109 158 K, so the updated chain anyway. https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/golf+variant+4motion/golf/2010-649/1/109-109052/#1 As I understand it, this fixes the "stretching" but they can still rattle on start-up. Vdud are rubbish. They don't do a chain kit and they won't tell you the parts you need for your vehicle. Though they will sell them to you, but not tell you the part numbers first!! Skoda sell a complete kit so you can convert from the "K" to a "G" and a couple of guys have successfully performed the swap on Polo's and Audi-A1. However Vdud do not list it at all. Just to make it interesting they updated the tensioner again 1/1/16 03F 109 507 F

Cheers, I will have a look at in in the morning. I have noticed that when the idle is sitting higher than normal say 850rpm. If I so much at touch the throttle peddle, it's enough to cause it to settle back to a steady 600rpm. I don't really need to press the peddle, even placing my toe under the peddle and pulling it ever so slightly/gently towards me instead of pressing is enough to settle it. I haven't tried tapping it side to side, but I I'll check that too. It could even be a failing position sensor in the peddle itself?? (guessing) Dunno, they are complex beasties. Still no error codes on my simple reader. Also car doesn't feel like there is any hesitation on the move. Quick update:- I had a little look at voltages at the battery. From cold I measured 12.2V, so possibly a tad low, I was expecting to see closer to 12.6V. That came up to 14.45V with car car at tickover. I'll take the car for a decent run and see if the cold voltage improves.

Cheers, I will have a look at in in the morning. I have noticed that when the idle is sitting higher than normal say 850rpm. If I so much at touch the throttle peddle, it's enough to cause it to settle back to a steady 600rpm. I don't really need to press the peddle, even placing my toe under the peddle and pulling it ever so slightly/gently towards me instead of pressing is enough to settle it. I haven't tried tapping it side to side, but I I'll check that too. It could even be a failing position sensor in the peddle itself?? (guessing) Dunno, they are complex beasties. Still no error codes on my simple reader. Also car doesn't feel like there is any hesitation on the move.

Cheers for the pointers... Much to my shame, nigh on all my journeys are pretty short. That said I've not been aware that the car has been showing any signs of low charge, it always cranks crisply and starts first turn. That said I can stick a meter on it and see what the volts are before and during cranking. Also the behaviour appears to continue even when the car has been driven and run for 30+min. The car warms up normally and fairly rapidly so I'm reasonably confident that the thermostat is operating as it should, though a faulty temperature may well be a possibility. I have a simple diagnostic reader but that shows no faults logged.

Cheers, I'll be a little more mindful of being a tad hamfisted at taking threads off course to the detriment of the OP. We all come here hoping to learn or add something to the subject, I did not intend to detract from that. Apologies if I did, I was just exchanging views. I did see the post 2, while it was helpful about what the car should be doing, a little later in the thread circa post #16 I asked some questions regarding erratic tick-over. (are post numbered? Am I missing a trick?) If anyone has any insight into what may cause issues with a consistent, it would be appreciated..

It doesn't surprise me in the least. What you hope to find is that folk have had the same/similar issues that you're experiencing, and hopefully suggest a "fix" or remedy/explanation of how they resolved it, so you don't have to jump through all the same hoops they did. Hopefully saving a little, time, money or heartache. If you're lucky, all of those. I don't think it's "amazing" in any way that when folk start talking about issues they start to vent, especially if they've had problems that really should have been picked up by Vdub, without having to bang on their door or stamp your feet. As for evil board members, I wouldn't know one if I ran him over. I also think forums are a bit like having a natter down the pub, there's always a chance the conversation will go off at a tangent. Which is not always a bad thing. Personally I've run Vdubs for 25+ years and until my latest Polo they have in-general been good cars. That's long enough to have an overview of how things have changed. (or appear to have changed imo) I've seen customer care deteriorate, they are all I-pads and tick boxes now, with every man and his dog trying to sell you a product or a service, then running for cover should you have an issue. And who on gods earth dreamt up the "VIP event" "As a valued customer we invite you to this very special invitation only event!!!" Yeah right, me and every other name on your database... LOL Anyway I guess we have no members who have any real understanding of what may effect idle speed?? Do we even have an ignore button???

I think think there are "failures" that are due to the mass production methods, likewise failure due to unforeseen quality issue. Just because of the numbers involved there are always going to a few that sneak through. The majority will hopefully be caught and dealt with within the warranty period. Issues like premature cam chain stretch are more sinister because they are a mixture or poor design and poor quality. They can also cause catastrophic engine damage unlike many faults that are no more than an inconvenience. Also because it's a progressive failure many of the cars will be outside the warranty period, so either having the car repaired or updated prior to it failing is going to involve a good-will gesture from VW or lots of arguments. Now I can forgive a fault that slips through the net and is relatively rare. I can't forgive shoddy trading practices that just let the customer pick up the bill for what are "Know-issues" That they simply ignore of wriggle out of because the car does not have an unblemished "VW" service history. Many second or third owners will simply get the vehicles serviced where it is convenient, but VW beat them with it like a stick come the day when the engine fails. People take into account "VW's" reputation for quality when they pay over the odds when they purchase it. It should come with after-sales and service that is honest and open, not like buying a car off Ebay. 20 years ago I would have said VW customer care and after-sales were among the best, now they are to be blunt rubbish and I've driven Vdubs for 25+ years.

Just part of what could be a long list..... Worlds biggest car manufacturer... 1. Water Pump 2. Timing Chains 3. Timing Chain Tensioner 4. Excessive oil consumption 5. DSG gearbox issues

I run a Polo 1.2Tsi, and it's done the party trick from a cold start of briefly sitting at a steady 1200rpm for perhaps 30ish seconds, then quickly falling back to a a stable 600rpm. Then about 12 months back it became far less predictable. Sometimes it jumps up to 1000rpm then slowly sinks back to 850-600. You can pull up at one set of lights and the tickover will be 600rpm, drive 500 yards to the next set of lights and the tickover will be 800rpm. Tickover is smooth regardless but it's never the same twice. Car is due for a service in a couple of weeks so I will mention it. As a random guess it feels like a failing or dirty sensor, I know the Polo has a couple of MAP sensors here and there so if I get a minute I may just have a look and give them a quick clean. Other than that a sticky throttle valve?? dunno... I will have a quick look and see if that looks dirty. Luckily they are all easy to get at. Then again it could be a knackered temperature sensor as I understand it the whole point of the fast tickover on start is to put heat into the cat? Who knows? The main problem is these little high efficiency engines are too complex and fragile for there own good.

I sometimes wonder if the motoring press shouldn't be shining a spotlight on these sort of shenanigans. Then again if they did highlight some of these problems I'm sure their supply of vehicles to test and long term freebies would dry up pretty quickly.

Not sure I'd agree with that at all. My view would be it's poor design, poor quality and poor support. The design was so poor in-fact, that the 1.2 engine had a complete re-design. There must be literally 100's if not 1000's of owners out there, who by now have possibly bought the car secondhand who have no idea at all that their car could have a catastrophic engine failure at relatively small mileages. Instead of doing he "right-thing" and issuing a recall for effected vehicles VAG choose to say nothing, worse still dealers appear to deny all knowledge of the problem leaving the customer to pick up the the bill. (unless your lucky to know they are lying to your face) Because it's not viewed as a "safety critical" part VAG are not obliged by law to do anything about it, so pass the buck. If VAG had an ounce of honesty or integrity left in them they would have issued letters to owners advising them to have the car inspected for premature chain stretch. (It wouldn't surprise me if it was as easy as interrogating the ECU) From what I've read the de-facto test is measuring the cam chain tensioner length. I think I read on here that the cost of a total engine replacement is in the region of £4.5K, on a 5 year old car that would be enough to write it off. Weighed against the cost of chain replacement that (I would have thought would possibly be a little more than a cam belt.) Thing is they don't see it as money saving as they have no intention of paying for it anyway, especially if they can bully the customer and wriggle out of it. It's the sort of behaviour you'd expect from an "Arthur Daley" back street garage not a main agent of a major manufacturer.

Nice one, good to hear they came good in the end. What a pity you had to force their hand with their own TPI and information "Googled" off the internet. They must have been aware of the issues associated with the engine. Warranty and dealer backup are one of the things that for many buyer swings them one way or another when they purchase a new vehicle, it's always disturbing when they try to wriggle out of putting things right that are down to them. Anyway chuffed for you that it's going to be resolved to your satisfaction.

I suppose it's not beyond the realms of possibility that they may not have seen one fail before, though I don't consider it likely. It might be worth pointing out that if this is something that never happens then why do they have part numbers for the upgraded parts that fail???? Anyway good luck with getting it resolved. My Polo 1.2 Tsi (2011) does occasionally make a little raspy noise on start up from cold. It's only covered 21,000 miles as of yet. I'm toying with the idea of downsizing to a CitiGo at some point this year. Either that or bite the bullet and say up to have the chain done, just incase it decides to fail.

Sorry LOL... The derp is strong here. Cheers, from what I've read, what extra power there is, is all at the top of the rev range. Since I drive like my Granada nowadays, I think the 60ps would probably suit me just fine.

Really?? I went from a Polo 1.9Tdi Sport to a 1.2Tsi. They both produce identical hp (105) but the way they drive is very different. There was never a situation where the diesel didn't have more than enough pull, even though the power band was quite narrow. The Tsi is more responsive but you need to make full use of the gearbox to get at the torque. No bad thing as it has a great 6 speed box. The 1.2 Tsi is a tad faster on paper, but you need to make sure you plan ahead to be in the right gear more. In the diesel, within limits any gear would do. So similar outputs, but very different to drive. I can't see how 60ps would even get close, even with it's lighter weight, both the Tsi and diesel could get to 60mph in sub 10 seconds, certainly no hot hatch territory but useable. What are the CitiGo and the Up? 14.4 seconds. I can't see you not being able to feel that on the road, even in sedate driving.