wyx087

Probably Chinese export credit VS cooperation with EU investigation. Though not seeing any source with lol's info.

I think so. I'm not seeing sub brands like Skoda, Audi, Porsche, Mini, Volvo, Polestar, Kia, Dacia, etc. I'm surprised Nissan and Renault are not doing so good, despite their very affordable offerings still on sale. Also, looking at implied target, does it mean Tata and Ford have more low emission vehicle sales than Toyota?? Implied target is up to 22%. As the snippet says, manufacturers can gain credit by selling ICE cars that exceed emission target. Tesla did not sell any ICE cars that exceeded emission target. Toyota did, hence their implied ZEV target has been reduced due to the credit system. IMO such credits shouldn't exist, but people wanted flexibility and less government control and government provided exactly that.

Well, in this report, it talks about ultra-low emission ICE vehicles (eg. Toyota hybrid) able to claim credit against ZEV mandate. So it does provide flexibility and encourages low emission hybrid development. Hydrogen FCEV also counts as ZEV. In another words, UK gov's ZEV mandate is technology agnostic and open to changes in market forces. https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5e753d15b0eb84693c7e3e21/t/665ee6aa9f2d5738d0dfa6f2/1717495471949/Electric_Car_Count_-_New_AutoMotive+(12).pdf Otherwise, there's no way Toyota group can be ahead of 22% ZEV mandate.

Me too. It makes perfect sense. It has capable for bigger battery and works well as proper EV. With ICE for people who need the assurance of range. Wow, that's a great improvement. 24 miles EV only range, but using just 10% of that could improve ~10 MPG giving 20 miles additional range on a 42 litre tank. Is that right? 'Realistic' motorway speeds also very efficient in a good EV (Newark supercharger to Welwyn garden city, including 5~10min off motorway each end) Translates to 320 miles range at 'realistic' motorway speeds.

As I said, the key with PHEV is regularly plugging it in. Although I didn't realise fully charged can hugely improve ICE efficiency, not just about EV range. Thanks for pointing that out. There ought to comparisons of PHEV to '99 style hybrids. Here is one, didn't say how charged is the PHEV https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46414049/toyota-prius-vs-prius-prime-test-results/ Another one reporting on other studies, where if not plugged in, bad economy: https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/manufacturer-news/2021/03/03/phev-models-found-to-be-61-less-efficient-in-real-world-use Advise in Which more or less lines up what I've said: PHEV is for driveway-owners, much be able to charge regularly to get the benefits. https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/plug-in-hybrid-cars-use-more-fuel-than-official-figures-claim-aIpyB5l2V4A8

As in move into somewhere with driveway? Because PHEV absolutely MUST be plugged in almost every day with only 30 miles electric range. Your daily driving profile must fit that 30 miles range. Otherwise you wouldn't get the cost saving benefits. I personally think Toyota 1999 hybrid is currently best way forward for people who can't charge at home. Still operates like ICE car but with benefits of EV, such as engine stop but can still run AC, electric powered at low speeds.

Me? I had only been asking the bleeding obvious and pointing out assumptions. I think you are actually the one “stirring the pot”. If you don’t like my points, raise actual counter points please.

Great, thank you! There is much lower APR on the electric and bigger contributions. It’s clear which powertrain the manufacturer want to shift. Yes, in this example, if bought at the end, around 20% dearer. ~£5000. Need to drive ~50,000 miles from home charging to recoup.

You love to presume don’t you. Adding nothing to a topic. There is zero twisting from my end, I didn’t presume anything, only pointing out the bleeding obvious on PCP: it is only 25% if ICE don’t own a car for year 5. I’ve never ever said EV is currently suitable for non driveway owners. So with 10+ year of ICE sales ahead of us, why are we not focusing on getting those low hanging fruits? My message has never changed: driveway + average car use = EV as default choice. Simples. For some, it involves changing some ways of thinking, for example total cost of ownership, automatic plug in every night just like smart phones, range requirement to be more realistic, etc. The cars and trunk road rapid charging infrastructure are now excellent. Only barrier is in driveway owner’s minds.

So same question once again, does the ICE owner not own a car after 4 years? Monthly payment to that particular car stopped, but to say there is a 25% difference implies zero cost for the 5th year. Stop arguing without knowing all information. I'm not saying it is false that BEV may be more expensive. I am only saying 25% more expensive is false. We currently don't have all the information to form a conclusion.

I've been saying this for many times, driveway owners default choice if situations allow, etc etc. A lot of the times, it pays to have foresight Without full calculation of the offer in question, it's difficult to say BEV costs 25% more. We need to know the final balloon/down payment. At 4th year, ICE owner has option to hand the car back or pay down payment to own outright. But if down payment isn't made, the ICE owner does not own a car anymore. At end of PCP, you'd need to pay the down payment. It does not belong to you. Without that information, it is impossible to compare true cost of the car.

That is not how this calculation works. Does the guy buying ICE version not own a car during that 1 year difference?

Insurance varies hugely for different people. I only carried on from where other people left off: fuel cost. It is very true it's part of total cost and should be included. Tyre will wear similar compared to similar performance vehicles, more cost difference for different sizes. This is the thing. Up-front cost is part of total ownership cost. People need to start thinking with total ownership cost. That is the point. Plug in every night means zero thinking required, automatic action, daily routine. Whereas needing to do something not on a daily routine precisely need thinking and remembering. Do you need to think about plugging your phone every night or there is a cable at bedside table and you do it everyday without thinking? Imagine that fuel cost is built into your home energy bill find cheapest tariff = always get cheapest charging.

It is true that EV used to have a small premium in purchasing price. That is no longer the case depend on vehicle and will soon be the reverse. EV are a LOT cheaper to run when charge at home, hence my driveway comment. Most people don't drive mega miles daily, so EV would not inconvenience most people's daily lives. It would actually be an improvement not having to think about refuelling during daily use. Apart from the social divide on having a driveway, which is not a big one. What other factors made you comment on "financially secure" aspect? To me, it feels like a very strange comment built up from conformational bias.

Correct. No, not un-warranted work, I am and have always been talking about regular service costs. The cost of regular servicing should be included in running costs. There is a difference between ICE and electric powertrain. Never in any of my running cost calculation have included component failure, only regular servicing costs based on costs I incurred from my ownership of a 2.0 TDI Octavia (£200 service, 500 timing belt, 200 DSG oil). I completely agree.

Sorry, I struggle to understand. Why would this difference "can't be considered in running cost calculations"? One powertrain need regular things doing, the other don't. Are you saying ICE don't need oil changes despite it's part of service interval specified by manufacturer?

There is also issue with warranty. Would VAG honour an engine problem if the car hadn't had oil change in the last 2.8 years? Tesla would honour battery warranty or drivetrain if no service were carried out. This is the biggest difference that affects running cost. We need to follow what was put into user manual to have valid warranty claim, ICE car manuals say must do regular oil changes. Tesla manual does not have such service intervals on battery/drivetrain: https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-E95DAAD9-646E-4249-9930-B109ED7B1D91.html Do you think Tesla can reasonably deny warranty work on battery/drivetrain if cabin filter wasn't changed as per interval? Well, the public's view of vehicles now need to change. EV doesn't need as much regular interval servicing. This is part of the reason dealerships don't like EV's and manufacturers with dealership model (all of them except EV only ones) still require regular busy-work.

I saw this video last night, very well presented. It gives a very good explanation why Taycan are deprecating so much, there is a much better EV in a shape with more mass market appeal coming out, at cheaper price. There is also an oversupply of used Taycan's vs similarly rare i3. As mentioned in the video, there had been a correction in EV prices after 2022 due to difference in fuel costs, before there were unrealistic inflated EV price. Now, overall used EV depreciation is on-par with ICE cars of similar age.

How are DIY jobs recorded in the old days? Do 100% of the people never DIY any jobs and never keeps record? Parts invoices?? But unlike ICE, changing cabin filter or not does not degrade vehicle health. So I would happily buy a MOT passed 3 years old Tesla Model 3/Y without any service information because missed intervals are not detrimental to vehicle health. In latest firmware update (2024.14), Tesla now also estimates remaining filter health. My almost 2 yo car has 91% and 94% for the 2 filters. So I don't plan on following recommendation, I'll follow the service estimates and change parts when needed. Less waste. Reads like GPS inaccuracy problem. Hopefully shouldn't be such problem for blackboxes in the vehicle because it would have access to speed at the wheel.

The estate part may not be possible moving forward. The world have been pushed toward bloated crossover/SUV. There is 149 EV's with 300l or larger boot, no body type limitation but otherwise fit your criteria: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?bootSizeValues=Medium&fuel-type=Electric&maximum-mileage=50000&postcode=bl35rd&price-to=10000&sort=relevance&year-from=2019 For comparison, there's 1725 for 40mpg+ ICE. Used EV market is still not there yet, due to poor EV investment by car manufacturers in the 2010's. Before ~2021, choices of EV is quite limited. Hence choices of £10k EV now is quite limited. But range isn't everything. Please do consider how much range is actually needed for your personal needs. How much range do you actually need 90% of the time? 95% of the time? Is the rapid charging speed suitable for the other 10%?

Look at DIY guide I posted and the service manual. The list you posted is not recommended schedule servicing for Model 3/Y. I used 3p/mile whereas charging at home is 2-2.5p/mile. There is built-in headroom for public charging. This means about 10% of miles could be public charged. This is entirely realistic because for most people, going 100 miles away from home (2+ hour drive each direction) is quite rare event. "Full service history" relates to what is required by manufacturer. If the manufacturer encourages DIY filter change, why is that not full service history? It is like-for-like comparison because that is how most people drives, that is what is required by the manufacturer. Fair enough. But to be comparable, you have to use true cost of the vehicle. Not inflated Autotrader advert price that no one will pay.

What is the percentage of driving population that actually do require the kind of mileage on a daily basis? I have never said EV is suitable for every single person, "if situations allow". Key is evaluating it as a viable option first. I always want to see evidences of claims to facts. Calling out youtuber to be spreading misinformation is not factual claims, there is a difference.

Obviously EV isn't for everyone even with a driveway. I think this is better worded: Nice life story though

When have I ever condone posting misinformation? In fact, I am saying why are you okay with spreading such FUD from Dave? But 5 hours earlier, you said the video posted wasn't misinformation:

This certainly reads like you think the Dave youtuber is spreading misinformation. We all know that ICE doesn't fail after 150k miles, that is FUD against ICE, yet it was said in the video and you shared it. Do have a look on the list, which inspection are actually necessary and can't be diagnosed by the car automatically? (also, I think your list is for older Model S and X) So only 2 are actually required professional inspection on lift: suspension, subframe and brake system. I personally think today's car can last 3 years without inspection on those. MOT can then take over. This is how my Nissan Leaf had been maintained for the last 4 years: checks via MOT, I DIY simple and clean jobs (cabin filter, battery health tracking, fluid checks). Can you find an up-to-date sheet for Model 3 and Y? I don't believe there's such list beyond the link I provided. Tesla publishes DIY guide for their cars, covers most of those list except the 2 areas I highlighted: https://service.tesla.com/docs/Public/diy/modely/en_us/index.html This is the official published service manual for MY on service items: https://service.tesla.com/docs/ModelY/ServiceManual/en-us/GUID-B8F74731-ACEA-4CEC-9516-EF6DF9AB9D9A.html