Alex-W

No, the AM4 holes have a rectangular pattern and the cooler fixes across two arms so you can't rotate 90. You can eliminate the GPU heat by switching to rear intake and lower temps however there's no rear dust filter by default so that setup will increase dust build up over time and I don't really want to be forever cleaning it. Given that the temps are more than fine I've not worried about it though. They're relatively low power components (65w CPU and 200w GPU) so shouldn't really be an issue. The GPU is half blower style too so 50% of the heat gets thrown out the Io shield.

Update: Finally got myself a 3060ti FE at RRP. Replaced the HDD with another SSD for silent running. It's a pretty decent spec now and so quiet too.

The airflow isn't standard for atx for sure, however after lots of research I've found that itx just varies from case to case (literally). It's the standard airflow for the nr200p case and that itself is well reviewed on the big channels for itx stuff as being great for airflow and can run some of the most powerful hardware. The nr200p is essentially the present go to itx case for anyone who wants a fairly straightforward sff build and the best temps without a custom loop and without spending a fortune/waiting months for an ncase M1. Rear intake is actually more popular as it does drop the temps a bit but I've got it as exhaust to reduce dust as the temps with the 970 are fine in either configuration. Gpu has two fans on it, they don't spin under 50 degrees so not at all when not running a game.

Yeah, it's not there for aesthetics, there's not really anywhere else to mount it, it's magnetic but doesn't stick to the back as well and the case will then reduce signal anyway so that's just the best location. I could run it elsewhere but I move the PC around and use it downstairs regularly so it's nice to have it all contained, so it just works.

This photo better shows the fans pre gpu/CPU/cooler

Behind the HDD is just the PSU, which is pulling air in from the back of the case (vented panel) and pushing it out the top of the case. The PC is on in the picture, however the PSU stops the fan altogether at low loads. The two P12s are at the bottom, under the gpu and there's 2 cooler master sickleflow fans at the top that came with the case, so the general airflow is bottom to top. The additional P12 on the tower cooler (I swapped out the stock fan as the p12 is quieter) presently exhausts out theb back yes, however I may swap to rear inlet so it gets fresh air rather than warm air from the gpu. Temps are good though. Under gaming loads the CPU temp maxes out at maybe 65, even with the rear exhaust config. Under stress test on the cpu it also reaches around the same (no gpu). Idle is about 37 degrees. I originally had a 3600 in there before the the 5600x and the latter dropped temps by about 10 degrees across most of the range. The case also came with a vented side panel as well as glass and you can mount additional fans on there or an aoi if preferred but that's overkill for a 5600x.

So, as an update, I built this: Asus B550i Motherboard Ryzen 5 5600X CPU ID Cooling se224XT Tower Cooler Adata 1TB NVME Corsair SF600 PSU MSI GTX970 GPU (Second hand one from a friend as you can't buy anything newish right now) Cooler Master NR200P Case 2 x Arctic P12 fans There's my old SSD/HDDs in there too. They'll be replaced in time. I got the 5600X in the end, not for performance now as I'll never notice that but more than it'll just last longer and as there's no more AM4 generations I'd rather what I have last as long as possible. Pleased with it though. Under non gaming loads it's silent. When playing games it's still quiet. All stays cool, it's compact, does what I need it to. Shame I couldn't get a new GPU but I'm playing older stuff right now anyway and the 970 copes fine. Eventually I'll upgrade.

I think things have moved quite a bit with the sff cases, certainly the ones I'm looking at take up to 5 or 6 120mm fans if needed. I definitely don't want loads of noise so was going to get quiet ones (noctua most likely). There's an arguement that you get more movement of air in a little case as you don't have stagnant volume. I mainly just want to stop having a big tower under my desk, getting the dust in it from the floor, free up leg room and have a little one up top.

Many thanks for that, I didn't appreciate the power difference. Less heat is Def better. Since had a read (skim) of this https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/features/amd-vs-intel-cpus. Which basically says the same. It does however point out that the 3600 is at the bottom of the pile really. Wondering if it's worth waiting for the 5600x to drop a bit (I assume it'll drop to the £200 mark).

From what I can tell, the pricing seems to have changed and it's swung from a clear AMD win for value to about equal. The i5 is a touch better now, however is a touch more expensive when you consider the motherboard price (the actual CPU is literally £7 different, the motherboards are about £50 more). I'm considering both tbh. I suspect that both do more than I'll need for quite a while. From the reviews/price/features it seems that for Intel it's best to go with the MSI MEG Z490i Unify For the AMD ones it's best to go for the Gigabyte b550i Aorus Pro ax The latter doesn't have a USB-C front head is the only issue which would be needed/desired for the NZXT case. Now considering the CM NR200P case. Only 18.5L and apparently really good airflow/cooling. Just need to find a cooler that fits under the glass!

After doing a bit more digging I've come to the conclusion that the statement that the Ryzen is better value is kind of true. A significant saving is in the motherboards. If you want to overlock with a Ryzen you can use most boards and can pick them up cheap. If you want to overclock with an i5 you need a Z490 board which is more more expensive (£150 vs £90 for ATX or £200 vs £150 for ITX). The CPU is a little cheaper but not much and you also don't have to buy a cooler if you are within the limits of the stock one. If you're not interested in overclocking though I think it could be argued that actually, the i5 10400 (£30 less than than the R5) is more of a comparison though and (if you also don't want the other Z features) you can just buy a cheaper intel motherboard and they're about on a par. Annoyingly, I actually want the higher spec motherboards for non-OC traits such as the USB 3.2 headers, the wifi and BT all integrated. I'd like to keep it simple and if I want to move the machine, just have to plug in an HDMI and a kettle lead. I'm not really sure it makes a huge amount of difference, from what I can tell for 'normal' computer use and casual gaming either will blitz what a CPU needs to do (many say a quad core will). I can't help wondering what people are doing on PCs that needs 8+ cores though.

From what I've read and been told, it's faster, it's worth getting if you need a new drive, but unless you're a very heavy user or really really want to shave 5 seconds off your windows boot time, it's not worth spending loads of money on. I plan to get one as I need more storage anyway but that's the only reason. The change from hdd to sata ssd was way more needed/noticable by the average user I believe.

Incidentally, my last 2 desktops have been AMD (athlon and phenom, before it was cool...) And my laptop is an i5, so I have no loyalty 🤣

It's set to private. This is where I'm confused. The 5600 seems to be better, and the 5700 more so, but they're also far more expensive than their equivalents. Price wise 10600k is the same as the 3600 And the 5600 is a bit more than the i7 10700k But apparently the intel wins in performance.. https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-10600K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3600/4072vs4040 https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-10700K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-5600X/4070vs4084 As for upgrade path, yeah I suspect sensible upgrade would be new motherboard anyway. By the time you but a cheap one and then another later you may as well get a decent one now I'd have thought. Realistically they'll only go down to £150 and that twice is 10700/5600 territory now. I think it only works if you can jump generations and make a big step change without changing board. Hence I want to get it right this time...

So, it's been a while since I build/upgraded a PC. My present one is about 10 years old. I gave up on PC gaming many years back and went to consoles (xbox and then 360) but hoping to get a little bit of time in the future to play a few games. By no means a 'gamer' but hopefully a few hours a week to chill and a weekly session with mates one evening. I'll only be looking at 1080p and I'm not overly convinced by the whole 'I need 100fps' stuff as back in the day I was quite happy with 30-40 and still enjoyed playing. I've been doing a fair chunk of research into what's available now. Have settled on building an ITX machine. The reality is, my present PC has a single graphics card and a USB 3.0 card in and that's it. Other than not being fast enough these days it's actually ok. Given USB3.0, ethernet, bluetooth, wifi all comes built into many of the ITX motherboards I can't see why I'd need more and it allows me to have a smaller metal cube kicking around housing it all. I'm likely going for a NZXT H210i case, which isn't a tiny one, it's essentially just a normal tower that's smaller in height and depth to remove wasted space but can still take everything you need. The GPU will be on hold for now as prices and availability are stupid. When it goes back to normal I'll be looking around the £200 mark for a 1660 Super or 2nd hand 1070/1080ti or something. The real question lies in the CPU though. I'm looking at the 6 core ones as beyond that is pointless for my use and a fair bit more expensive. I have friends who swear intel is better. Look online and AMD is more popular by far. Lots of people (reviews etc) suggest the Ryzen 3600 is the one to go for as it's better value and outperforms intel. I'm not convinced this is the case. From what I can tell they perform in this order (worst to best) - i5 9600k, Ryzen5 3600, i5 10600kf, Ryzen 5 5600X The 9600k is old and clearly not as good, so I've removed that from the mix. The others though are £180, £185, £320 respectively. To me, the obvious choice is the Intel i5 10600k as it's about the same price as the Ryzen, it's far newer, faster (albeit not hugely) and the same price as the Ryzen, with higher max clock speeds. The advantages of the Ryzen as far as I can see are that it's got a lower TDP, however pretty sure that's just the max theoretical heat, IF you overclock. Also it comes with a cooler. But most people swap out the cooler anyway (I would plan to for an ITX case). So..... why is the Ryzen 3600 the go-to cpu? They really don't look to be 'far better value' as they're claimed to me. They pretty much the same value, slightly cheaper, slightly lower performance? BTW, the current proposed build spec is this (GPU missing as that's tbc based on availability) https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/Sheaf/saved/W7FPFT Alex