Weti

It would be to keep rain at bay. There is an issue with water ingress through the sunroof and I will be away for a few weeks so unable to monitor it and remove the water that has leaked in on a daily basis. I do not want to return to a flooded car so need to slow the ingress before I can effect a repair.

Hi, can anyone recommend a suitable car cover for a Yeti? A car specific one would be great (I have looked but have found one, or found expired links from other threads), alternatively a generic cover which fits well would be appreciated. TIA

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I forgot to say, the first thing that drew my attention to this thread was the weird ticking/glugging sound coming from the rear of the car when it rained and my heater fan speed was high. Another member had complained of a similar noise. I assume other people are hearing this even if their roof miraculously isn't leaking (as if!) as it is associated with the rear drains. When you drop the headlining you can see the rear drains do not run progressively or should I say directly downwards. As the glass roof is nearer to front of the car than the rear, the rear drains initially take a more horizontal path and as a consequence of the way they are routed, they exhibit a bit of undulation. The low points of these dips obvious take longer to dry out as the water has to rise over a small hump to do so. This could only really happen if you were to drive or park on a steep incline. So, as the speed of the heater fan increases, so too does the cabin pressure. This finds its way (probably through such cracks in the cassette I described above) and out through the drains. Because the rear drains have this dip, the air flows over the water, pushing it with it but not fully clearing the hump. It flows back and forth creating the glugging sound (which sometimes sounds like a muffled car indicator sound or at least has similar frequency). I have used a 3M adhesive cable clip and stuck it to the roof in such a way that it guides the drains in a more direct path without the undulations. It's been like this for a week and i've not heard a peep from it. Beware if you do this not to alter the angle of the ball joint too much as it connects to the rear of the cassette. You really want it to point downwards but to get the hose to point downward you need a compromise with the orientation of the joint. You don't want to cause water to leak out of the joint in the rear of the car too.

From what I've seen with mine, there are a number of ingress points. 1) Where the plastic front tray overlaps with the aluminium side channels as per the OP's post. You need to remove the wind buffer to access these. 2) The water that comes through the rectangular slots across the front aspect of the plastic tray has nothing to do with the drains. The rectangular slots are physically separated from the main water collection area which leads down the drains. For water to come out of the rectangles, it has to come from: a) an overflow which can happen from blocked drains; b) water which breaches the finishing trim at the front of the glass but doesn't lead into the collection tray (see an earlier post of mine where i have a cotton bud in this gap). 3) There are two gaps which for some reason are designed into the plastic frame. They are at a high level and sit above where most people complain the water is coming in from. If you shine a torch up or down the big crease you tend to stare at, you can see light exiting the other side. The gaps are slots about 1mm wide and about 10mm long. Water can easily seep through them but because they are higher up, I think this is why you tend to see sporadic ingress. it is less likely but not unlikely water in the main channels will find a path across them. I know for sure water is getting in here as on Saturday I applied Tolleys to both gaps on both sides but the had to shut my roof because of a downpour. The white sealant which was in the gaps I described was then displaced by the fresh rain and could be seen on the underside of the large crease. I do not know what these gaps are for, maybe they are breathing holes. Given they certainly let water in, they need sealing. I'm also not sure Tolleys is the tool for this. it's too low in viscosity and takes too long to cure. Super glue is probably a better choice. it's faster curing and doesn't flow so easily. It is more likely to sit at an elevated point and not migrate through it like Tolleys is seen to. 4) At the raised leading edge of the inner plastic-aluminium section, where the inner glass rubber makes its lateral turn, there is another ingress point. Water which has found its way up high can also enter this trap and head below. At the same point, if you lift the rubber, there is yet another slot which you can shine light directly through. I'd take the same gluing approach with this. Given all this entry points, I'd be surprised if any car with a pano roof wasn't wet inside. If you're unaware of the problem, you're unlikely to have sought the knowledge of one of these forums and are likely to think your issue is recent. In reality, water has probably been trickling in to your car for months and years until you see it pooling through your carpet. Given what I've see, I would not have a new cassette as they aren't good in the first place. Same with the seals - they are designed to let water pass, it's just how you dispense of the water once it's under the roofline.

Absolutely this is the case. When I removed my headlining, I could see the entire roof, front and rear, was covered in condensation. Once the floor was dried out, the condensation effect stopped. Have you removed your carpets? This is the best way to dry the foam in the peddle area of the footwell which retains water incredibly well.

I appear to have inadvertently deleted some of my text. I also wrote: I checked the underside of the opening pane of the roof and the surrounding pane structure. These were wet. This supports the theory that water on the underside can track laterally until it seeps through the gaps mentioned. I’m curious about what @Grantola you propose about the wind deflector exacerbating the issue. With the wind deflector there, it will take up more space and offer more surface for water to sit against. Without it, water would attain the critical mass it needs to break free of a surface and flow towards the drains. Since the deflector sits very close to the gaps, I think your idea has gravity.

@GrantolaThat is good news. I’m glad to hear your car is dry. Is this an unusual result under normal circumstances? If so, a great sign and evidence to suggest water could be entering from multiple paths. To confirm, you haven’t removed your headlining? My wind deflector has been out for the entire time I’ve had the inner tube repair and is still out. As I saw ingress last night, the wind deflector is not the sole reason it is finding its way through. I ask if you have removed the headlining as it’s much easier to see what’s going on by being able to check from above and below. This morning, I saw a drop on the passenger seat. This is the first indication of water coming in from the NS too. By being able to look upwards, I can confirm it’s the same location as we’ve discussed. I also lay tissue paper across the driver’s seat and steering wheel which were dry (surprising given it hammered it down) but there was a drop hanging ready to fall. If you shine a light upwards you can see the light in the areas highlighted below. Given light can get through (and it’s not a direct path) I now have no doubt this is how the water is entering and landing on the seats (again, with the headlining there, it drops onto the lining and tracks across to the A-B pillars). The gap circled nearest the windscreen is quite large and may also need something physical present to block that route rather than sealant alone. Maybe more rubber, combined with sealant? I’m kinda miffed I haven’t fully prevented it but intrigued by the challenge it presents at the same time. Question is, can I fix it before Christmas as my girlfriend is threatening to throw out my headlining and interior trim so she can entertain 🤣

Weirdly, the website is randomly allowing and disallowing photo uploads. These are the areas I’m referring to as potential ingress points and corroborates what you are suggesting @Grantola there’s no way the channels are filling that high that it’s over spilling so guess water is hitting the main inner seal shown to the right of the image where the glass sits and then runs down the path you are suggesting. Though it ’s a big gap at the top, I suspect it narrows somewhat as I previously mentioned, the ingress was slow.

@Grantola I’m glad you remarked on this. This is the area I also think water is still coming in to mine. I can’t fathom how though as the water level would either: 1) need to be filled in the channels so high that it can overspill the break in the plastic. When I opened the sunroof last night during a pause in the rain, I found the whole area essentially empty. This suggests it is not filling up and is draining well. 2) water is somehow tracking sideways across the glass until it hits the inner main seal and then down the break in the plastic. I guess since I’ve seen water breach the main outer seal, this is how it’s still getting it. I just cannot understand why it designed this way unless it is to let the structure breathe/aerate etc. Either way, if your car is soaking in these conditions, the path could do with being eliminated, at least partially. Even in extremely heavy rain yesterday, and whilst driving the car, only minor levels of ingress were observed. The amount of water removed from the car, like yours @Grantolasuggest either a slow accumulative effect that we only observe when the footwell squelches or it’s pouring in somewhere. I’m beginning to favour the former though as I’ve driven the car in some pretty horrid conditions since I stripped the interior and water has not poured in. I guess a dribble here and a drop there, with nowhere to go except sit on the floor pan, eventually adds up to litres.

@Grantolatrim the ends of the inner tube so they do not interfere with the running channels of the roof. Though it’s not shown in full in the second image I posted, if you look carefully, you can see a taper to the inner tube as it runs towards the corner you highlighted as Mech. Also try to ensure the tube fits fully under the seal and over the seam of the metalwork. The adhesive appears compromised at the front of my roof so water can pass both sides of the seal. If it passes on the front side (closest to the windscreen, see image below) it could miss the inner tube if it isn’t inserted deep enough, and still end up running out of the two rectangular slots (you still have your headlining in so won’t be able to see these). Whilst I’m discussing this, I may as well give a further update for my car. It has been about two weeks since I made the inner tube repair and it has rained quite substantially in that time. I have used the car daily with frequent rain and until this evening, I have not seen any further ingress. Then whilst driving it in a downpour, a drop or two landed on me. I could see where it came in and suspect it is from another opening in the side channels. I’m having trouble uploading the photograph but will try on another post. The water trail was away from the overlap between the aluminium and plastic joint so I still believe it is not the culprit. I have removed the carpet and soundproofing which were largely dry. The heavy insulation on the toe board (pedal area) is still sodden though and will be slow to dry without encouragement. I have blocked up all the air blower outlets into the front and rear footwells apart from those directly above the area the water has collected in the OS footwell. I also lift the insulation when not in the car to promote circulation of air.

I have finally found the cause of the gluggling/bongo drum sound from the rear of the car when the fan is on and the outside conditions are wet. A drain with a direct passage to the ground would not make this sound, and for a number of weeks I have thought it sounds like there is air trapped in the drains like a U bend. Even if the drains were partially blocked this sound should not occur. It can only happen if a liquid has the sort of non-continuous flow you get when pouring a full bottle of wine - the air stalls the flow of wine as it equalises the pressure in the bottle. If you were to pour a liquid down a section of tubing, even partially blocked, you will not hear the sound provided the tube travels continuously downwards. So, the cause is indeed a U bend effect. Take a look at the profile of the rear drain (blue pipe in image). It runs downwards then back up before entering the enclosed box section behind the seatbelt. Since it falls and rises, water will sit in the low point. With a positive pressure of air from the cabin pushing past it, the trapped water will make this sound. The only way to prevent it is to eliminate the rise and fall nature (though in reality it is fall and rise). This could probably be done by lightly strapping something slightly stiffer to the drain such as a thin section of wood or stiff plastic, so the drain always travels in a downward direct or at worst, only has level spots. Nobody has reported the sound coming from the front of the car, only the rear. This is because the front drains have a continuously falling profile. With the car standing for a week in the cold weather, I also noticed the roof, sunroof and windscreen were heavily covered with condensation. This presented as a combination of small and large water droplets which formed due to the vast amount of water still trapped in the car. We all know condensation forms as humid air contacts cold surfaces (roof, sunroof etc). The aluminum sunroof channels of the cassette can also get cold and a provide a ‘good’ place for condensation to form. Since it only takes a few droplets to coalesce, a larger droplet of water can easily form and drip wherever this happens (usually from the aforementioned cold surfaces). This can give the appearance that the car is leaking from places it actually is not. I believe this may be the case for many people who think their sunroof is leaking from the plastic-aluminium joint on the sunroof cassette. I myself saw water here and figured that was the point of ingress. The fact is, with enough water in the air, it can condense and drip virtually anywhere. With the headlining in place though, it will most likely run down the pillars making people think their drains or cassette is leaking. I you have tried to seal your drains or cassette without success, try the inner tube method I described above and see how you get on. Below image shows excessive condensation with no leaking on or around the front drain hose or hose connection.

@BeePM do you know specifically what your dealer fixed on your car? Anyone else who still suffered from leaks but has tried sealing the plastic-aluminium joint looked at the overlap of the front of the main seal into the plastic tray (the one I have the cotton bud in)?

@J.R.no, it’s a small section and held firmly in place by the roof seal. The part exposed protrudes downwards into the plastic tray. Additionally, given the profile of the inner tube is only ~0.5mm thick, it has minimal impact on the way the other seals and mechanicals of the roof, and wind buffer function. Not sure why I referred to it as a tyre in my previous post. It is clearly an inner tube.

I have taken a different approach to a repair, which has shown to be somewhat effective under controlled conditions - cheap, and not a drop of Captain Tolleys in sight. After some head scratching, I managed to remove the headlining and clean up the roof channels on both sides. Although I saw a drop of water on the underside of the cassette a few days ago, it was only one drop and I wanted further convincing where the leak location was. How a single drop translated to a flooded floor pan did not add up. I dammed both the OSF drain hole on the cassette and the front lateral section and filled the front corner with water so the plastic-aluminium joint was fully submerged. There was no indication of a leak from the jointed section. As others have suggested the frame is weak and can flex when pushed from beneath, I applied a little pressure to the overlap from below but still nothing. I’ve been puzzled by the irregularity others have described trying to correlate rainfall (or lack thereof) with leaking. It would seem if that jointed section is fully under water, it will never see more water than that, has minor hydrostatic head pressure and should leak. Given it doesn’t, Are we really looking at the right point of ingress? Anyway, I continued to slowly pour water into the dammed corner until it finally poured into the cabin. Thankfully I had prepared the seat for this as it was free flowing. Water exited from the usual place others have highlighted - the rectangular slot and opening above the worm drive (image below). Considering I thought the corner I had dammed was enclosed plastic, I was curious as to the communication to the holes below. There is a huge gap between the outer sunroof seal and the plastic front tray where the cotton bud is inserted (image). Water can obviously pass through here very easily and is more in line with what I expected to see given the depth of water in my footwell. The plastic tray should never be that full though, and since the drains flow well enough. I remained puzzled as to how it entered the cabin. Finally with the roof closed, and the headlining out, whilst wetting the front of the sunroof, I managed to see water pouring in. It came down the gap with the cotton bud inserted, not the joint everyone has tried to seal with Captain Tolleys. When wetting the roof, there was ingress at the front (and possibly rear) aspects of the outer sunroof seal. When water passes the seal, it should run into the plastic tray and down the tubes. No prizes for guessing where it actually goes… There is a skirt on the same seal similar to a shower screen seal, which is supposed to guide the water into the tray. However it sits forward of the tray with no overlap. Water passing the seal of the closed roof is capable and does flow directly through the rectangular slots in the first image (there are two slots per side but only one is shown here). Since I found a leak which flows into the car with the roof closed, when a relatively small volume was sprayed over it, I think it was reasonable cause to fix that and ignore the plastic-aluminium joint. Considering the size of the gap, there’s no way you’d seal it up. This needed a different approach. I was thinking roof tiles. Not literally, just the principal. To give the water a helping hand into the tray. Since I wanted my roof tile to have no - to minimal interference with the operation of the roof, it needed to be ultra thin yet water proof. Off I went to buy a bicycle tyre. £4. I was thinking narrowest but largest diameter, so a road bike/racing tyre. I sectioned the valve out, then gutted the remain tube so it opened flat. I inserted this under the sunroof seal, lapping it over the lip of the metalwork and into the plastic tray. Although the gaps I was trying to bridge were only at lateral aspects and whilst the factory seal overlapped much better in the central position (above the rear view mirror), I decided to fit a full length of rubber as it would be less likely to move around than two independent sections. Given the amount of excess sitting in the gully, I cut it in two so I had two long strips. That would allow the wind buffer to fit back and not trap water on the underside of the tyre. I neatened the ends so the didn’t interfere with the guide rails and opened and closed the roof a number of times. There was no movement which might lead to it moving out of position. Time to test the water - literally Sunroof closed, I gave the area a proper soaking with a specific focus on the entry points of the roof seal I’d found earlier. Nothing came into the car but a trickle was exiting at the designed exit points behind the doors. This was encouraging. Opening the roof again revealed additional trickles on the rear facing aspect of the tyre. This is the water that would ultimately find its way into the car during any rainfall. I’ll keep the headlining out for a while to check on progress but there was nothing following the evening rain that followed. So, if you have tried sealing the OP’s suggested joint area and had no success, give this technique a whirl and let me know how you get on. It’s about as a cheap a fix as you could ask for (about 1,000 times cheaper than main dealer!) and doesn’t actually need the headlining removing. I have cleaned and dried the OP’s joint too and will add some Tolley’s as I have seen moisture in the joint. A note on drying the area, I found using a pick and paper tissue to soak the water out of the joints works really well. The smaller the piece of tissue the better. If it’s double ply, separate it. Aim for an area of tissue about the size of your little finger nail then poke it in. Remove it and repeat. It’s surprising how much continues to come out which corroborates what everyone has remarked upon whilst adding Tolleys to the joint. Weti