Clunkclick

Memory is currently installed 1+2 (Single-sided DIMMS), 3+4(Double-sided DIMMS) but is reported in Windows as 1+3, 2 +4. After further starts-up I did this morning, its pointing towards a memory issue. I had previously noticed a problem in Windows, where certain actions required, unusually, a double-click in order to get them started as opposed to the normal single click and this seems to be mirrored in start-up (Hitting the warm-boot, after the boot has stalled, starts the system first-time) - is there a known problem in the design of the memory controller interface on the high-density single-sided DIMMS, perhaps in the bank switching circuitry ? N

*******s ! If consumer electronics, especially home computing, is so reliable and infallible, why are their pages and pages of reports on the internet on people not being able to get systems to start, systems failing-over etc - a good 50% of which don't get resolved. Is it possible, that white male middle class professionals aren't the oracles they make out ? N

Well, the Fluke 325, is only a year old, has only been used half a dozen times since then, and I would therefore hazard a guess that its still "On station" as far as agreeing with the factory calibration standards - i.e. good enough to be used as an index for home use . . . . blue touch paper lit. Nick

I have to disagree - see the readings I've just taken from three different meters on the three best batteries (No Load):- Battery 1(Duracell from stock about 2 years old) - 2.88v (Ansmann), 3.054v(Fluke 73), 3.1v (Fluke 325). Battery 2(Duracell from stock, about 2 years old) - 2.88v(Ansmann), 2.998v(Fluke 73), 3.0V(Fluke 325). Battery 3(Panasonic, purchased this week) - 2.88v(Ansmann), 3.142v(Fluke 73), 3.1v (Fluke 325). The average of these readings is 3.003v and the maximum range of the meter readings is 0.262v whereas the difference (range) between the spec voltage of these batteries (3.4v) and the average of the meter readings is 0.397v - 1.51 greater. Nick

Ahh, very interesting . . . . http://farnell.com/datasheets/1496885.pdf This states this particular brand CR 2032 should be supplied new with a voltage of 3 - 3.4v, a "Terminal" voltage of 2v and an expected life delivering 3v or near 3v of at least 200 hrs and at least 1000hrs of life before it hits 2v. Gosh, it could almost be the standard for healthcare delivery in the UK. Postscript Ah, The full banana:- http://www.alldatasheet.com/view.jsp?Searchword=CR2032 What beats me is why the retail display stands and storage locations couldn't incorporate miniature pulsed chargers to keep these, and all batteries, as fresh as the day they left the factory. I'm fed-up paying out good pension money for half-discharged carp - and that includes car batteries. Nick

System still stalling on boot after an overnight powerdown, but this time no red LED "MEM-OK" light - had to warm-boot it again to get it started. Still awaiting the arrival of the new DOUBLE-SIDED DIMMS, but I still suspect that a less than full capacity Li-ion button battery may have some role in this continuing problem, that's despite its capability of delivering a momentary 250mah when connected to the Flukes 10 amp discharge. And it doesn't matter where you shop for new ones, either on-line or locally, new ones arrive partially discharged. Anybody know of a reliable source for good quality CR2032s ? Also, I see from Amazon and E-Bay that there are Re-chargeable CR 2032s - denominated LIR 2032.. And whilst some of these are advertised as suitable for MBoards, I note that the rated voltage is 3.6v and capacity 60mah (Compared with the CR2032s 3v and 250mah). Can the LIR's be used in an Mboard and if so has anybody had experience of using them ? Nick

So, this morning, after an overnight powerdown, with the first slot (A1- Blue) populated with a SINGLE-SIDED DIMM (Which isn't compatible according to the Mboard manual), I push the "Go" button and the frigging things starts first time, without stalling or prolonged illumination of the "MEM-OK" light and boots straight into W10. WTF - it shouldn't work ! Try this several more times, does it again and again. All CMOS settings are preserved ! So, let's try a second, the other SINGLE-SIDED DIMM, in the next memory bank slot to the right (A2 -black). Again, no issues ! When A2 was similarly populated last night the system was stalling during boot with the "MEM-OK" light on. I repeated the boot several times, both warm and cold, started every time without issue. You guessed it, I thought how about installing the DOUBLE-SIDED DIMMS in the remaining two empty memory bank slots (B1-Blue & B2 -Black). Expectations were confounded. Again, absolutely no problem booting. Perhaps its significant, that one of the last things I did before turning the system off last night was to disable the SpeedStep function in BIOS. This function (The default is always on auto) applies in this case specifically to the operation of the Integrated Graphics Chip (Odd, I thought, that an Intel function like Speedstep, is included in an Award BIOS in an AMD MBoard-I suppose they had to if ATI had built in this functionality into the Integrated Radeon 4250 graphics chip). So the system started this morning with both the Graphics Speedstep and the fan "Cool & quiet" function disabled. I think Speedstep works by directing processor read/write operations from the permanent storage (Whether SSD or HDD) to memory. That's got to be a candidate for causing the memory problems my system has been experiencing. Pro temp, I leave the system, as currently set-up, for a few days just to see if its stable over several powerdown cycles. Then, I might have a play to see if this set-up can tolerate engaging Speedstep. As far as I can establish ASUS haven't updated the Memory Qualified Vendors List to sanction Corsair SINGLE-SIDED DIMMS in this MBoard (Although the QVL is content to recommend Crucial 4GB DIMMS (8-8-8-24, 1.8V) and Kingston 4GB (8-8-8-24, 1.65v) in SINGLE-SIDED Form) so, on that basis, I've ordered a pair of new (Yes New !)Corsair DOUBLE-SIDED DIMMS with exactly the same specification as the original two, including the version no . . 2.3. And, I will take it from there. Very weird. Postscript Even weirder -the donateware CPU-ID software, running in Windows 10, is now reporting the following:- Slot 1 -SINGLE_SIDED DIMM (Presume this is the Blue memory bank slot (A-1), far LHS of the bank) Slot 2 -DOUBLE-SIDED DIMM (Blue memory bank slot (B-1), third to the right) Slot 3 -SINGLE-SIDED DIMM (Black memory bank slot (A-2), 2nd to the right) Slot 4 - DOUBLE-SIDED DIMM ((Black Memory bank slot (B-2), 4th to the right) So the order of installation being reported by Windows is different to the Left to Right order of the actual physical installation. Nick

The BIOS is up-to-date as it can be - the last version ASUS issued, version 1801 (Dated 2013). But I will unload the old copy and refresh it if I can find a valid 1801 - at the moment the fresh 1801's I've downloaded from ASUS are being rejected by the BIOS's on-board update program - "Invalid module". I think I have found the answer to the BIOS boot stall/MEM OK conundrum, but only an overnight power down will validate the theory. Its a memory issue. Basically, about 18 months ago, in order to prolong the usuability of this 8 + year old system, I upgraded the on motherboard integrated Radeon 4250 graphics chip with a new MSI (Radeon R7 360) graphics board and added 2 extra 2GB Corsair DIMMs to sit in the remaining two empty memory banks on the motherboard. What I didn't realise was that the new ram, whilst almost the same specification as the earlier ram (CMX4GX3M2A1600C9, 9-9-9-24, 1.65v) was a later version, version 4.19 (As opposed to version 2.3) and was implemented with more capacious, bigger chips and implemented as SINGLE-SIDED DIMMS, whereas the original two DIMMS (Version 2.3) were implemented as DOUBLE-SIDED DIMMS. This difference was not stated on the external packaging, or on the labels attached to the DIMMS themselves, and was only visible on close examination of the units because Corsair DIMMS are manufactured with a plastic cover over the memory chips which is applied to both sides the DIMM whether its SINGLE-SIDED or a DOUBLE-SIDED DIMM - you can see the metal legs of the memory chips on both sides of the DIMMS on the DOUBLE-SIDED UNITS when you look closely, ditto a single side of metal legs on the SINGLE-DIMMS. I only become aware of this after using the CPU-ID utility program which correctly reports memory DIMMS as either DOUBLE-SIDED or SINGLE-DIMMS. When cued into this difference I then consulted the Qualified Vendors List for DIMM Memory in the Motherboard manual and found that the Mboard only supported the DOUBLE-SIDED DIMMS of CMX4GX3M2A1600C9 type. Bugger. Nevertheless, it will still boot to OS on SINGLE-SIDED DIMM, in fact I am typing this post with only one SINGLE-SIDED DIMM installed in BANK 1 and no other memory installed running the graphics from the Mboard chip and only using the Adata SSD and a wired network - all other plugs disconnected. But it stalls during the BIOS Boot and requires the "Mem-OK" button to pushed followed by the system warm boot before W10 loads. Further, during power down it trashes the stored CMOS values referred to above in this thread returning them to default and does the same to the fan "Cool & Quiet" setting - does it create a CMOS current leakage path during powerdown ? By this mechanism it might also have been draining the CMOS battery and screwing the video output of the MSI board. Boom, Boom! Anyway, just to verify, I tried the one of the original DOUBLE-SIDED DIMMS in BANK 1 and booted to OS no problem. Right as rain as were the CMOS values which were preserved. This couldn't be any more cosmic in coincidence terms if it tried. This is exactly the same sort of problem I had with the Fabia battery and the leakage path created by a failed temperature flap motor while the car was engine off at rest - now runs with the Diagnostics fuse and one other removed (Except at MOT and servicing time) as I haven't been fit enough to remove the faulty flap motor and the main dealer and Indy don't want to know ! I think this is the answer, but only a couple of overnight powerdowns in succession will prove it. I think I'll have to start hunting around shortly for 2 x used DOUBLE-SIDED Corsair DIMMS of the same type (I don't think the low density DOUBLE-SIDERS will still be available new) and flog the two SINGLE-SIDERS (Easier). Postscript I've just realised, the reason the this issue didn't get recognised until recently was that I had been keeping the system unit power on (Standby) all the time. Now, courtesy of some of those radio-controlled power plugs to switch off everything at one switch mains power gets chopped at night. What a bugger ! Postscript 2 This is probably old hat to most on this forum, circa 2010 (But new to me now, I may have read it back in when I purchased the MBoard back in 2008/9 and promptly forgotten it) - On researching the differences between SINGLE-SIDED AND DOUBLE-SIDED DIMMS I've found that its even more nuanced than how many sides of the DIMM are populated with memory chips, its the way the memory controller read/writes to them. With DOUBLE-SIDED DIMMS the memory controller addresses each "Side" separately and switches between sides to do so, with SINGLE-SIDED it addresses all the memory chips as one entity. Consequently, DIMMS with chips on both Physical sides of the DIMM can be SINGLE-SIDED and DIMMs with chips only on one side can be DOUBLE-SIDED. So, in this case, why nothing on the DIMM labelling/packaging to indicate this difference ? Nick

Voltages on all the ATX rails are reported by the BIOS as within 5% of tolerance for ATX standard 2.2 i.e. 3.26v (3v rail), 4.935v (5v rail) and 12.080v (12v rail). . . . . . . but the thing still keeps stalling mid-way through the BIOS boot - most recently on USB drivers. Nick

Remember also to loosen the bolts and fixings on trim and grills and poke a few holes in the skins for that authentic Italian feel (Ex Sud owner). Nick

Altogether in Calypso time and pentameter, "Linton, Linton, by the sea, given to us by the BBC, Painted our battlebus a peculiar hue, Seemed to forget what Conservatives do !" N

The battery problem appears to be solved, after multiple battery swops and, oddly taking out and re-seating all four memory DIMMS and wiping the CMOS. The CMOS, after system power-up this morning, appeared to have retained all of its values after the power was switched-off overnight. I'm not counting my chickens that this will last though. However, when the system is switched-on after an overnight power down, its still stopping during boot with a red "Mem-Ok" light. This can be resolved by depressing the adjacent "Mem-OK" button and then re-booting on the system warm- boot sub-button. When the system' s been powered-up for some time, you don't then encounter a stalled boot and the red light if a warm boot is performed !!!!!! I've also removed the ATI R7 360 gaming video card (From the PCIe x 16 slot) as it was causing video interference with part of the BIOS display - the part that related to the on-BIOS BIOS update software ????????? Never had any problems until I put Windows 10 on the system as a dual boot with W8.1. And it seems to have got worse since I removed Windows 8.1 ? Coincidence ? - As this Mboard's design is now 8+ years old, ASUS no longer support the drivers (Finished 2012/13), Microsoft now provides the Chipset support . . . . ? I'm loath to think the problem is the power supply - an 18 month old Corsair 750w bronze unit. Nick

Plagurising Freddie - "Don't start me now" -As an ex-NHS and MOD employee canned on two successive occasions, as a consequence of HMG financial mismanagement (The disastrous exit from the ERM in 1990 and the £36 billion hole in in the MOD budget in 2010) I could wax lyrical. I was thinking the other day, rather than sit here suffering until the ultimate appointment deferral, I could get on my bike, with my EHIC card in my grubby paw, and arrange for everything to be put right frog side. Hmmm ? Might as well before it goes "Pooofh" under BREXIT. Nick

For me to find and book that service in the time available between hospital attendances, not possible. It all happened too quickly - viz Leave NPH Harrow 02:00 and required to be @ Royal Free Hampstead by 14:00 on the same day (8th May) (The clinical imperative being to get the broken bones aligned before they start to set) - only achievable if I had Iron Man's suit and boots or . . . . perhaps . . . Theresa's leather trousers . . . do they have Harry Potter style magic properties . . . Thinks . . . . only if you're in the HP set. The continuous belly laughter continues . . . Despite NPH being reported as hit by the Ransom ware attack (Probably govt), they still managed to squeeze out another letter (arriving this morning) cancelling my forthcoming Haematology follow-up appointment in June, putting it back another month. So, that's each of the last 4 quarterly appointments cancelled and moved to the right . . . with the most recent one cancelled twice ! Haematolgy Department at NPH must be in meltdown. So to be a patient in the New Model Health Service (Who said army ?) de rigeur, requires the following super human qualities:-The patience of a saint, the visual acuity of an eagle (When watching the fall of mail from your letter box), the flexibility of a circus or music hall contortionist and the velocity of movement over urban landscapes of Iron Man . . . . not many of the able bodied have this. Edit # . . . . and the Bank account of Mark Carney for the squaring of the circular debt mountain of travel and parking charges. I think Hunt the **** is going to be getting a letter. 40 years of Tory Government, or near equivalent and we've got this . . . ****ERS Nick

Not much ? Just imagine it was an OAP with arithitic knees and mild dementia, with no local suppor or hospital transport, being asked to attend a clinic at 14 miles and 1 hour 40 minutes distant, by tube and bus. Does your attitude change then ? Nick

I'd say that's pretty good by today's standards. NW London: Non-urgent for my GP, its usually a fortnight wait (He's now one of the more senior inn the practice and in demand), otherwise its same week for another doctor in the pool. Urgent, don't really know - all my urgents have been ambulances bfrom home. I suspect probably same day, as long as they are in that day. As another poster has said on another post by way of generalisation, seeing the NHS docs is usually good, its the admin bits in between that can sometimes go awry. Nick

Totally agree GM. The bloke I saw at Royal Free was cracking -literally. As one of the previous posters said NPH had started to develop problems long ago. Many of the areas you go into there now, you find individuals with attitude and its like treading on eggshells the whole time. Another example was when I went to my last 3 monthly Lymphoma follow-up clinical. After I'd seen my doc (An Asian) who was brilliant, I came out to the reception desk to book my next appointment (Letter issued there and then) only to be greeted by the clinic nurse moaning on about the overload of follow-up Haematology appointments. This was in front of a seated mass of patients waiting to see their Haematology doc. Most people would realise that is something that you shouldn't do except in extremis. Does one charitably assume that these professionals are giving vent to their feelings in this way because they are being confronted by what they perceive to be insurmountable problems caused by a system in crisis, or are they just having a bad day ? I think its the former because I received letters in respect of each of the 3 previous Lymphoma clinic appointments revising the dates of all these appointments to the right. The impression I get is that a system overloaded. Under current protocols, Blood cancer patients like me are called back at increasingly elongated intervals over 5 years to check whether they are still in remission. So, in any year the clinic has to see not only all the new cases arising in that year, but, additionally, all the patients (In good or bad health) from the previous 5 year period. So in a period when we are getting a demographic bulge in the older population (Where there are the largest number of cancers) the numbers to be seen are rising like billy oh. Management, NICE, NHS England, need to get a grip and reduce the call-back schedule frequency (With reference to patients in remission) and/or work out some schema for SOME call-back patients to be seen by GPs - if that was technically feasible My feeling is that this bad attitude manifests itself more than it used to at this hospital (Having lived in the area for the last 60 years) and across the NHS. Equally, I understand patients very often don't see the prior events that cause staff to react like this - the stimulus may be anything from difficult home life, to awkward patients to bad management and bad policy. Nick

I've spoken to WS professionals who've had no choice because they had no support staff and had to do lengthy studies of departments on their own. I remember. in the late 1980s, one bloke telling me, at job interview, he done a continuous 36 hour study of Computer Ops at BACS, on his feet, and after, had virtually crawled out of the Ops Room on his hands and knees. Horses for Courses. N

That's the second time, I've been within earshot, when this has been said to me in this hospital. Many of the staff are from abroad and, I think, suffer a bit of culture shock when they come across here and do these sort of jobs. I think, when viewing UK from afar and reading the recruiters literature (No doubt, per the Army - All adventure holidays, water-skiing, table tennis and rock concerts) they see developed countries as easy street and then get a rude awakening when they pitch-up. But that's not to say, that staff conditions in the NHS haven't tightened considerably in the last few years. as they have for everybody (Barring the top 2%) in the UK in response to the changing World economic conditions. When I was working in the NHS most of the nursing staff I came across were doing 8 hour shifts and only a few voluntarily did 12 hours with a rotating pattern. Whereas the chaps I spoke to when last an inpatient (2 years ago) said they were all doing 12 hour shifts on a earlies/lates rotating pattern - no choice, take it or leave it and were indicating it was a bit tough. But, its pretty unprofessional, as the opening "Meet and Greet" to the patient to say this. And the A & E wasn't busy (I've studied a few in a professional capacity), just a slight trickle of patients (I guessa about 6- 10 patients an hour). Nick

Warp(ed ?) drive. Returning to Cryogenic hibernation. N

I don't think so mate for the following reasons:- The X-ray I saw showed a wide, spiral fracture going the full length of the bone barring about 5 mms at the knuckle end. The surgeon I saw later at the Royal Free said if it had split all the way, he'd have intervened surgically. And the click it made when he reset (Sans anaesthetic) the position prior to plastering could probably have been heard by National Theatre Box Office staff on the South Bank. What I was saying was why wasn't there the expertise available at that time, even over a digital link, to have made the surgey/ no surgery decision there and then thus avoiding my nugatory journey. I suppose with today's eye for income generation, if my local council is now trying to sell me stuff every week (They have "Deals"by e-mail) then what's to stop the hospitals turning into a Tourist draw . . . "Roll-up, roll-up, see NW London's A & Es and clinics son et lumiere. However that's not to say that there are not other issues there including ethnic and staff morale issues. The first comment to me from the South-East Asian -Nurse specialist was that "I've been on shift" for the last 12 hours. Well, sorry mate, I do msympathsize, but what's new, I've done 12 hour shifts (Not of my choosing) in the NHS, 30 years ago when doing studies in anything from hospital kitchens, laundry to night standby posts - that's the name of the game, man-up. We certainly didn't take it out patients. Just to give you a further flavour, of the other divertissement, whilst I was waiting there to be treated a black bloke came into A & E with an outside jacket on which was emblazoned in six inch white lettering on nthe back "If you think this coat is black I was looking for one two shades darker". Nothing Extra ordinary round here. The pains in the fanny will be coming on now. Nick

I understand that the other game is to charge for a max rate for the full duration of journies when the journies start "Off-Peak" and finish during the peak period - possibly just a failing of unsophisticated charging systems. Nick

I haven't used the bus or underground regularly since 2003 - that's pre Oyster card - hence why I asked. Got a separate wallet for the Oyster on order and have "Clothed" the bank cards in RFID defeat pouches. The underground readers were rejecting my wallet on first presentation so I don't think anything was taken from the Bank Cards and the staff were swiping their passes to let me through. Pity they don't stick a notice with the support page message on the leading edge of the barriers - tourists must have a nightmare. Nick

No endurance these young people . . . hows that for mildly inflammatory - no doubt beaky moderator will be round shortly to enforce the will of comrade Kim and to close down an further comment on failing government systems or ones that were designed to fail.So predictable its worn a hole in the record. Nick

Usually most of you comments you make are insightful, why are you attempting to lower the standard of debate on this occasion ? Be assured this post was not intended to be a "Poor me" post, but a lament, yet again about the declining standards of some public services and the substitution of poor ersatz commercial or commercial precursor replacement services. If you haven't experienced that recently you must be one amongst a privileged few. Nick