Graham Butcher

Well correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked we were in the UK, and the speed limit here was 70mph max so with that in mind why the hell do we need to have that kind of HP or need to have that kind of speed that can be applied in seconds?. If you were hit another car doing speed it would be total carnage, possibly killing one or more people and for what? So you can say it's nice to have that massive HP regardless of if it's an ICE or EV, its not really green, is it? I decided to test the water as far as insurance is concerned and there seems to be no logic in the way it works, I got quotes for the following cars, all 2nd hand, all under £14k, full comp. 1K excess, S&D 10,000 miles a year, car kept on road at home. I looked at Bentley Turbo R , £700 - 9K, Mercedes Benz E55 AMG, 1K-5.5K, Porsche 911, £750 -6.4K, current car, Skoda Superb £530 -5.2K, Tesla Model 3, 1.8K - 10K and a Range Rover Sport 2.4K - 10K. It does however seem that they hate Range Rovers and Electric cars.

But doesn't the fact most ICE owners don't understand that HP does fade with time prove my point that having such massive HP to start with is not required. There was the EV announced the other day with 1100HP, why so high?

It's about time as well, the wholesale price went down a while ago. I think there is still a good bit more that could be done but regulator stopped short and allowed them more profit. Still I suppose every little bit helps.

@wyx087I'm just establishing the facts about the events to get the context right so that readers can see the complete picture correctly with the right supporting info, that's fair enough? With regard to those Ethiopia articles, reading them both, they are claiming to be banning the import of non EV vehicles, but the same articles also suggest that it is not yet a done deal, charging infrastructure does not yet support large scale EV usage, and they hint at the real reason for considering such a ban is less to do with air quality, although they do mention it, but is more to the economics of the country struggling to pay for the liquid fuel which has to be imported. I was intrigued to dig further and uncovered some startling facts. Looking at the countries' vehicle stock they are, in large part, old, clapped out and poorly maintained like many of the countries in that part of the world. Looking at other sites throws a different light on the real problems of the country, this one for example paints a very interesting picture List of countries and territories by motor vehicles per capita - Wikipedia. Countries by population is also interesting List of countries by population (United Nations) - Wikipedia as is countries by physical size List of countries by area - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The average age of vehicles in Ethiopia is 20 years and almost all are imported as used cars, I guess from more developed countries' scrappage schemes Used Vehicles Survival Rates and Their Impacts on Urban Air Quality of Addis Ababa, Ethiopia (ijert.org) with new vehicles being largely restricted to government and international organisations. Taking just 3 countries as examples, USA, UK and Ethiopia you can see the scale of the problems:- Vehicles per 1,000 people. (195 countries) USA has 908, UK has 600 and Ethiopia has 10 and the ranks USA - 7th, UK - 36th and Ethiopia - 189th. Land size (197 countries) USA - 4th, UK - 78th and Ethiopia - 26th. Size of population rankings (197 countries) USA - 3rd, UK - 21st and Ethiopia - 11th. Given the above results, the public would appear to only have access to other countries scrapped vehicles so are second hand and the most polluting so if they go ahead and ban ICE vehicles being imported, they will still only have access to scrapped EVs from other countries the data would suggest. I'm beginning to wonder if there is any validity to those 2 links you found, this link suggests Ethiopia: Freedom in the World 2022 Country Report | Freedom House that they may not be quite what they seem, it is an oppressive country and may be just posturing for the world stage? Any thoughts

Sounds perfectly feasible, I think that a lot of phone batteries suffer because people charge them overnight to 100% so that they last the whole net day and then pop them on charge again at night. Many people complain about their phone having poor battery life after only months of use, and this would explain the reason for it.

I just came across this new video. Unlike over here, the ICE cars will become the rich people playthings, while we have the upper class of ICE cars and the best EVs being the playthings of the rich.

Just a small point, I assume that the above is what you can remember of the event? I say that because I have always been attracted to hot air balloons, particularly when they do the mass evening burns with them all glowing in the twilight. I thought that it might be an idea to finally cross off one of the items on my bucket list and go and see it live. While researching this on the official website FAQ (bristolballoonfiesta.co.uk) it seems that is a completely free event and only need to pay for car parking at the launch site at Ashton Court, so any figure would be purely guesswork whereas RIAT can tell by how many actual tickets have been sold. Looking at various reports and news coverage of the balloon fest, it seems that the city estimated that the event could see a record 100,000 in spectators over the 3 days in 2024. While clearly not as big as RIAT, but still a big event, but RIAT is just 1 small airfield with extremely limited and poor road access.

Hmm, it seems the situation in Ethiopia is not quite as clear-cut as you first thought. Reading those 2 links, it emerges that they are getting sick and tired of continually rising fuel cost for liquid fuel and also that the country is being used as a dumping ground for other people's out of date vehicles that no longer meet the latest standards for most civilised countries and also that most of the 2 million vehicles on their roads are over 20 years old. They have not yet banned the imports, but are seriously considering doing so, according to the articles. They are considering introducing emission testing and vehicles that fail those tests will be banned from further servicing and must be removed from the road.

That is just crap, try and use it if you're wearing gloves etc.

Yes, I hate the idea of touch screens in cars, they are fine when stationary but even using the radio on mine while driving is a nightmare. Just changing a station the other day, the touch spot for the station I wanted is about 1 sq inch, when I went to do it, a pothole jarred through the car and instead of changing stations, the whole screen display was sent scrolling left. Never happens when you have actual buttons or knobs to interact with and the newer cars have almost all the controls done via the central screen. Its as that YouTuber that everyone berates says, (Geoff buys Cars) modern cars are just accidents waiting to happen, so too is having the speedo reading on the central screen and not in front of the drivers so they can keep their eyes on the road.

Here is perhaps another angle that has been overlooked, with ICE we are all used to having to go to a garage to get our fuel, so maybe the lack of home charging for a huge slice of the population is not the dealbreaker? Maybe it is a combination of the higher costs in the first instance, the high cost of using public chargers, the speed of the chargers, and the higher insurance costs? Then there is maybe the fear factor, fear of being locked out of or in if the electrics fail which has been known, fear about the battery life, we all know that batteries do expire after a while, whereas an ICE, if serviced correctly will do hundreds of thousands of miles and not suffer the same degree of degradation in range or power that a battery does. Speaking of being locked in or out of a car, manufacturers have not helped in this regard with the rise of push button door mechanisms they build-into their cars just because they can. In the video that @Stonekeeperposted the other day of the Rolls Royce Spectre, which has this feature as do many other EV cars, this needs to be stopped now forever. I know that for people in the car they have to build-in manual emergency door handles, but the fact is, that people get used to the push button operation and then when the times that they need to get out in an emergency and the power has gone, they panic and forget that there is an emergency handle. That said there are some EV's that do not have that emergency escape system for the rear seat occupants.

If they can get charging times at chargers down to something akin to the time it takes to fill a tank, then I don't see a problem. There are cars around like the Honda CRV that have to be filled about the 200 mile mark. But as you said, a Leaf and other similar cars they would need charging at least 4 times for me to make it there and back. Started to look at hotels this morning and for the Saturday night they are already booked up and I'm now looking at 100 mile radius and prices around the £200 a night mark.

I agree, if I was getting free charging, then using a electric car and grabbing a hotel room for the night before would be sensible thing to do. The only problem would be that because that event is so popular and it is miles from anywhere, hotels get booked very early in the year and prices for that week quadruple, and hence why there are so many camping sites around the area. Such is the demand as many plane spotters are there for week before and the next few days after, catching the arrivals and departures. One aviation forum even has its own grandstand there every year and it is rammed.

Firstly, like you, I'm not arguing, just pointing out inaccuracies of claims being made. Yes, both FCL and RIAT are 3-day events, and it should be no surprise that they are Friday, Saturday and Sunday and as Friday is a workday it will be the least supported day, that's logical. Its around the 150 mile trip for me to RIAT and unless I have something like your Tesla which for reasons already explained, would not be the case (£53k) so would possibly need to charge on the way there and again on the way back if I had a car like @Rootedmini, that would be the case. I already have to leave home at about 4:00am to get there just after the gates open. I certainly would not want to leave any earlier, or indeed stop for a charge on the way home as it is already quite late in the night by the time we get home. Compare that with my current car, I know I fill up the tank the night before, and I'm good for 600 - 700 miles so no need for stopping on the way home, once we have got off the base. So if we can only get tickets for the Sunday, not a problem with the range either as the following morning, I have to do another trip of 30+ miles taking my son to work for his 7:30am start. I also know from talking to other people at the show that they have driven down on the day from places like Manchester, Newcastle, Norwich etc and if they were driving an electric car could also be seeking somewhere close by to grab a charge, and this is just going to get worse as more electric cars are brought each year upto 2035, when all new cars will be electric. But hopefully by that time, the range will be greater and cars will be more affordable. If I was still working, it would be a Tesla sitting outside my house as it is a no brainer when the BIK is considered and that someone else is paying for the car and savings made on fuel costs would offset the BIK tax.

So are you denying that this is the link you posted? "I've no idea about FCL numbers. I agree it wouldn't be as much as airshow. Although the RIAT official website says the numbers are across 3 days: https://www.baesystems.com/en-uk/event/royal-international-air-tattoo" That link is not the official RIAT website but belongs to BAESystems who sponsor the air show for obvious reasons 🙄 How many times do I have to say that I also have not ruled out the prospect of me getting an EV? The only ones I could afford are 2nd hand ones, and being a pensioner, funds are limited and current models are not suitable for my current needs.

Yes you can, and I'd like to state that I'm not discussing "green" EVs. I'm merely pointing out why, for me, with the current range of affordable EVs, they are not suitable for me personally, although others appear to have other agendas Equally however, can I just point out that also said the following : "I totally agree , its is not a Battery Electric Vehicle when it needs liquid fuel to charge the battery via an engine in board. Its an Electric Vehicle with a range extending liquid fuelled engine however it is still an Electric Vehicle" Which for the folk here is a red flag to a bull simply because it still burns liquid fuel and therefore has tailpipe emissions, which they would like to banish to the history books.

2019 FCL show was held over 3 days, 7th, 8th and 9th June, with 10,000 visitors so was clearly not in the same league even as RIAT. Also the figures you quoted for RIAT were for 2022 and it gets bigger every year. Fully Charged LIVE 2019 - Fully Charged Show

Nice try with the RIAT shuttle bus, apart from one small detail, there are only 2 bus routes, 1 from Swindon and the other from Cheltenham oh and the frequency is every 20 mins, so that's 3 an hour, they are double-deckers with a seating capacity of 60-80 depending on the model, so working with the max of 80, that's only a maximum of 480 people per hour, journey time of approx 30 mins on a good day and having spent much time sitting in the jams leading into Fairford, that can easily triple the time of those buses. Gates to the show ground open at 7:30am and flying starts at 10:00am and the first shuttle bus departs from both locations at 6:45am. So if you're really into military aircraft and flying, you would want to get just as the gates open, so you have time to get into the queues for the ticket checks and body scanning and the baggage checks, including any photographic gear you may take. Those queues are really long and take some time to process and if its raining (usually does) you are getting soaked while standing in the queues at the 3 entrance booths. So how many people do you think the buses could safely carry to the show before the flying actually starts and also remember, that once through the checking and searching stages, you then have about 20 to 30-min walk to reach the crowd line and on that path, you have to walk through the static show aircraft and trade stands? I venture that most of the people at the show will have driven there, and I'm a regular there so have first-hand experience.

Yeah, you could say the same with most of the BMW's today as well, they are ugly.

There is a vast difference in the number of attendees, 2019 Fully Charged Live at Silverstone had 10,000 people, the 2023 Royal International Air Tattoo at FAR Fairford had over 200,000.

Yes, I understand that, but if need be an after market sat nav is pretty inexpensive, I use one all the time, despite the built-in being up-to-date with its maps because the after market offers far more useful features like speed camera alerts, red light cameras, accident black spots speed limits, toll roads, congestion zones, live traffic updates and also alerts if the speed limit is exceeded, etc. Critical parts that would prevent the car from being used for its core function as a means of transport such as in ICE, coil packs, ECU's etc as these parts all talk to each other and have the ability to brick a modern car in EV's the main controls are all electronic, speed controllers, inverters etc will be largely dedicated to the vehicle model and not interchangeable. Electric motors would not be an issue as these can be rewound.

Because of your comment when seemed to dismiss me as a potential EV owner and therefore had nothing valid to say about them. Tell me how charging Hubs can cope with hundreds of cars looking for a charge in order to get home again? I can fill my car before leaving home and return without refilling.

@wyx087Yes we have vastly different experiences with electronics, I tend like to repair and save electronic equipment used for specific purposes, which most people have zero knowledge. These are not mass produced items such as consumer products. 👍

@Rooted sorry, it was actually meant for @wyx087 To say I'm puzzled is an understatement. Show me an airforce base which has destination chargers in its public parking areas. These are temporary parking in the middle of the base, on grass adjacent to the runways, it just is not going to happen. I don't do any other long trips these days, I used to when I was working to visit customers.

@wyx087All I'm going to say further on this issue is that you believe what ever you want to believe, but I know that they are already embroiled in lawsuits against them and there are many more about to start and they have had many others before. They have already admitted some of the claims made against them are correct and have settled out of court on some, others the battle continues, this is going to be another incident like the Post Office and the Postmasters and Fujitsu and their Horizon software battles. Just keep watching and waiting, all will be revealed in the fullness of time. In my family we have loads of their devices from phones, tablets MP3 players and even TV, nobody is denying that they make good products that are highly desirable, You have 3 devices, I can count in to the tens in my family and I know the experiences. I have also personally replaced batteries in their phones, one was in a phone just after the user updated the software, and it did make some improvement but not much. I then placed that battery into the other phone which had not been updated and the phone lasted well over a day with fairly heavy usage for game playing, it was then updated, and the battery would only last a few hours without being on charge. Both of those phones have now been replaced with newer models. I however am the odd one out, I have Android phones. When you say, measure the battery voltage when while you turn up current draw and see the volt drop, welcome to basic physics 101, that proves nothing. The phones already have a built-in low power mode built-in that the user can elect to use to extend the battery life at the expense of unnecessary apps and screen goes to dark mode to conserve power and the system then prioritises the basic functions of a phone without all the bloatware. As to you repairing video cards, motherboards and monitors, well so have I and many other items, oscilloscopes, digital multimeters, signal generators, frequencies counters, mobile phones, calibrators etc. but when you come across custom ASICs and that chip was custom-made for a particular manufacturer and model, when that maker decides to pull the plug on that model and bring out a new one, those chips are no longer for sale and are destroyed because the manufacturer no longer wants to support that device and high-end oscilloscopes are rammed with them. Unless you can come across another scrapped scope that you could possibly scavenge the ASICs from, you are screwed, and even if you do find one, the chances are that it is the ASICs that have failed as well, as the standard IC's are far cheaper to source and would have been replaced and the scope dumped when the ASIC was found to be faulty and was as rare as hens teeth. Like you, I have also written software for some projects, and also designed the controls, built the panels, wrote the program software and installed and maintained the controls for a major crematorium and others including munition companies along with quite a lot of hospitals both NHS and private healthcare sectors. As for EV's and your personal experience, I don't have issues with that at all. If I could charge at home and only needed to do short trips and on the occasions I did long ones, if there were destination chargers at the venues, then I'd possibly swap my car for an EV and save vast amounts of money, but where I go, there are no destination chargers so that option is a currently a no-no. But does not stop me following the progress of electric cars and their development. One thing it does allow me to do is to look at the whole electric issue in the round without being financially and personally involved either way and so can see possible problems as well admire the performance and efficiency and their very low acoustic impacts