Graham Butcher

To think that this sh1tshow all started through a simple analogy between an ICE and EV car, which I remind you that for those that wish to have a brand-new car each time as opposed to a second-hand one, will have zero option from 2035. And I did say that it was a car, and the point of that car was to transport people from point A to point B. In other words, to keep it simple, a straight forward substitution from an ICE to EV as that is what the average driver/owner expects their car to be. That is all the average person wants, a car to do, take them and their family out and about. Go and ask people in the street what V2H, V2G, V2X or a frunk is, and they'll just stare at you blankly, they will not have a clue. The whole thing was plain and simple until you decided to throw in the proverbial curved ball as usual.

And what has V2X (Vehicle communication to Everything) got to do with a EV battery being the equivalent to a fossil fuel tank or an engine being the equivalent to a motor? All it need for the comms to take place is a 12V battery. What Is Vehicle to Everything (V2X)? | Built In

Well, all submarines since 1880s, have been electric, or hybrid, the only exception has been the nuclear subs.

It is indeed sad that so many are dying or being injured, and I have to admit that when it was announced that the presidency had been won by a comedian, I laughed, but it seems like he was the right man at the time.

A few things here tweaked my interest, the nighttime fighting does not seem to be happening in Ukraine, all the heavy action and killing of the armour we get to see, is in daylight? The panels might well be set up early and most troops far away, but the enemy would be looking to knock out the heavy weaponry first and leave the softer targets, troops, until later surely? With that, once the enemy see a single panel, surely would go looking for more and then find the weapons being charged. The presence of panels being the breadcrumb trail?

It was not the panels being taken out, more the giveaway that there must be some heavy armour in the vicinity and then the drones could hunt them down.

Yes, I could see the logic in smaller vehicles like Land Rovers. Quad bikes etc as they could be useful in stealth attacks behind enemy lines and also would not take that long to recharge, but just couldn't see heavy bits like tanks etc as they would need bigger batteries and thus longer charging times or more solar etc.

That's true, I just thought that despite the Tanks' weakness when it comes to drones, I just thought that they and missile launchers would still be around for a long time and seeing that a Challenger 2 tank weighs in at 75 tons and the missile launchers won't be far off that either that they would need massive batteries and even with solar panels, would require loads of them to recharge for the next mission and even with many smaller panels dotted around, the losses in the cabling would be massive as well, plus with the chances of sunlight bouncing off the panels would be a giveaway of the locations. Remembering the tales my Dad told me about the way field glasses (binoculars) would often give away the locations of opposing army units in WW2.

You can believe whatever you want to, until you can stop ignoring things that don't suit your version of events, I'm not playing.

Have you not been watching the clips from Ukraine war, wind turbines or a solar array would be easy to spot by a drone pilot. I would also expect a hand cranked generator would take some hefty cranking to kick out any usable amount of power.

You have made my points for me rather nicely, have a nice day.

Hmm, I can't help but think that electric battle vehicles are not a good idea, fine in peace time but on a war footing those vehicles are going to become a sitting duck while being charged unless they can find a way to considerable speed that up?

Just watched this video of the BYD Seal and I thought it's a rather interesting car and has some interesting bits and bobs, but it's another one that requires to much interaction with the screen while driving, taking attention away from the driving. To my mind, it is just as, if not more dangerous, as operating a mobile phone while driving. Yet interacting with a phone is deemed illegal but not a touch screen mounted centrally?

This is why these discussions just rumble on because it is impossible for you to say stay within the context of the particular topic/theme of the moment, you always move the goalposts, what a shame.

Yesterday I made a trip upto RAF Mildenhall as I knew that there were 2 KC10 tankers on their way ferrying a lot of fighters on their way to bases in Italy from the states and on the way we decided to drop into Duxford to see if there was any activity going on there as well, and I saw this lovely Spitfire there in one of the hangers taking part in a "Spies in the sky" event going on there, this is one that I have spent a lot of time with back at its hangar in North Weald. Then outside on the airfield, there was this Mustang being flown by its owner. Then we carried onto Mildenhall and saw both of the KC10's landing there. These are now rare indeed as most have already been replaced by KC135's and these 2 will be gone shortly.

This is what I mean, you just cannot bear to see anything or hear anything bad about any EV, you always have to find something to make you look better than anyone else. Please allow me to give the scenario one last time and see if you grasp the point this time This is a tale of 2 cars, one is an ICE and the other is a EV and for this purpose both have been driven until they have depleted their available energy in battery and fuel tank, and they will not move any further until their fuel sources are replenished. Ice car it is possible to go to a garage with a jerrycan, fill the jerrycan and return to the car, tip the fuel into the tank and then the car will run again. EV car it is not possible to go to a garage and grab a container of electric charge and return to the car and put the charge into the battery so that the car can be driven again. You would need to get a recovery agent to come out and recover the car, and take it to a charge point, or if they have an onboard generator, plug in your car and spend some time recharging its battery. Look we all get the point about the advantages of being able to charge at home, also the point about being with the right energy company and on the right tariff, we also get the point about the ability with the right system to employ V2H or V2G, but that is zero use if for whatever reason your car happens to run of battery power. Please stop wriggling around on the hook, it's not dignified in any way shape or form when you keep ignoring the scenario and twisting things all the time. You mention about Paws4Thot having you on Ignore and I have to say, I'm not in the least bit surprised, and I doubt that he's the only one who has put you on their ignore list.

To be able to do that with the battery, it has to have a charge in the battery, which a flat battery does not have.🙄 Moving the car is the whole point of having any car regardless of its motive power. 🙄 People don't buy a car for any other reasons other than it being a means of transportation of A to B. The type of car very often is for other reasons than purely transport, for example, why do people buy a Rolls Royce over say a Jaguar or Mercedes Benz etc. For the same reason I expect as people would buy a Range Rover over say Skoda Kodiak, other than show off and say look at me, I can afford a better car then you. Look at the huge numbers of these 4x4s in cities like London, they are totally not required, will never be taken off-road, make visibilty for those folk driving normal cars harder, weigh more and emit way more pollution and just getting people from A to B, just as in normal cars. One thing they don't do is buy any car because it can do V2H if ever needed.

Actually, the air we all breath is one of the cleanest in the civilised world already and this can be proved by anybody if they can be bothered to do their own research by looking for world stats on Carbon, Nox and PM pollution levels instead of relying on what our politicians and government funded establishments are telling us to believe. World's Most Polluted Countries in 2022 - PM2.5 Ranking | IQAir, World’s cleanest cities | IQAir, World Air Quality Index (AQI) Ranking | IQAir Live Animated Air Quality Map (AQI, PM2.5...) | IQAir It would seem that there is another agenda at play here, and we are just being used as pawns in their game. Now if the politicians really and truly wanted to help mankind and the planet, wouldn't it be far more beneficial for everyone to spending time and money into helping those countries and cities that have the worst rankings in the pollutions tables to clean up their act and by so doing help to reverse the global warming?

There are some posts here that I'd like to respond to but currently out shopping, well someone has to do it 😂. That said though this debate is good natured and long may it continue that way and it must make Colin happy as the forum is getting loads of visits so the advertisers are all getting excellent exposure. I must just say that currently with EV's being generally so much more expensive then ICE, they do generally tend to be owned by the more affluent people and yet is it not also true that it is also more likely to be the same people jetting off on holidays, or partaking of a cruise in carribean etc?? Makes you think? I'm not aware of any commercial airlines or cruise ships that are electric powered. I mean, I don't own my house, never been able to afford to buy a house, nor have I ever been able to afford a holiday overseas or indeed in the UK at a hotel, only ever having days out to seasides etc🤔

Like you, I've seen these scares before come and go, lived through droughts etc and recently someone presented some evidence that the river Thames actually ran through my home of Chelmsford and is now located some 25 miles south of it so it would all seem to be part of a natural cycle of events. Now if electric is the way forward then with all the so called free energy, solar, wind, tide etc surely the way to get most of us switching is to make the benefits obvious to us all by making the cars so affordable and the running costs almost none existent so the ICE owners and drivers want to be in on the action. Being forced to into the switch is not the way forward. Nobody ever made it compulsory to buy a petrol or diesel cars did they? It was a free choice, and so a free choice would be way to get people to dump fossil fuels for electric if they can see advantages in doing something, they will. It appears that the darling of solar power has had its bubble burst as there is growing claims that the solar panels themselves are far from being green are becoming a problem in their own right, so is there any real solution to the world's energy problems?

Once again you are denying the truth, you have to get the solar, wind or tidal lecky into your flat battery, what's so hard to accept about that. Equally a empty tank could be refilled with synthetic fuel, bio fuel, home made diesel made from plastic bottles etc, waste cooking oil, but just like your EV, until that fuel reaches the tank, the ICE car is not going anywhere either. 😆

You are trying so hard to ignore the facts are as I said. Run of out liquid fuel through a leak or consumption then your car is going nowhere till you resolve it. The same is true in your EV car if the traction battery runs out of power, your car is going nowhere until you recharge it! As to powering the instruments etc, then both cars have a low voltage battery dedicated to power them. Both ICE and EV need a power source, one comes a visible liquid, the other from something you cannot see, but both are needed to make the cars move, no power, no driving. You just have to try and defend the EV at each point, just accept the fact that they cannot do the impossible and run on air. 🙄

I think it is a fair comparison, forget the fact that you can plug other devices into your EV, if it is so fitted with that feature. I looked at it as a whole, a means of transporting people from point A to point B, electric motor is comparable to ICE engine, EV battery is therefore comparable to Fuel tank on ICE. A fully charged traction battery, is directly comparable to a full fuel tank, a flat traction battery is again directly comparable to an empty fuel tank, there is no other way to view it, your car is going nowhere without fuel, be it a liquid for the ICE or stored electric for the EV. It is possible to get a Gerry can of liquid fuel and pour into an empty tank, but you cannot walk to a garage and pick up a few KWH and carry it back to your EV, and get that energy into your battery. So in that respect, I'd say that was a far result than being able to plug something into an EV and use its power in a non-motive fashion. Plugging other stuff into an EV is not going to suddenly get your EV car moving again, is it? So the fac that it could be used as a mobile power pack is a possible bonus, but it does sod all for your mobility issues of moving from point A to B does it, so that is just your way of deflecting the point of focus again. Now surely you are not seriously suggesting for a single minute that batteries are going to last the lifetime of the car because that currently is just not going to happen.

AS to the green bit, bigger HP means bigger engines and thus more emissions with ICE and EV more HP will create more tyre emissions? OK, Model 3 is actually on offer at 15.5k but should be able to get it at 15K or less. ID3, 1K - 5.7K and Kona comes out at 1.1K - 7K

The real problem as I see it, and it was discussed here the other day is how has the battery in the 2nd hand car that you're thinking about buying been treated before in its life, has it been regularly charged to 100% and allowed to drop below 20% or even to almost flat, has it been always charged at superfast DC rates etc. It is a real lottery. Looking at it in real simple terms, the battery is simply the equivalent of a fuel tank and if you have a problem with a tank, it is easy to spot by the fact if you fill it passed the hole, the fuel drips on the ground and a replacement fuel tank is not going to thousands to replace.