Graham Butcher

@Rooted sorry, it was actually meant for @wyx087 To say I'm puzzled is an understatement. Show me an airforce base which has destination chargers in its public parking areas. These are temporary parking in the middle of the base, on grass adjacent to the runways, it just is not going to happen. I don't do any other long trips these days, I used to when I was working to visit customers.

@wyx087All I'm going to say further on this issue is that you believe what ever you want to believe, but I know that they are already embroiled in lawsuits against them and there are many more about to start and they have had many others before. They have already admitted some of the claims made against them are correct and have settled out of court on some, others the battle continues, this is going to be another incident like the Post Office and the Postmasters and Fujitsu and their Horizon software battles. Just keep watching and waiting, all will be revealed in the fullness of time. In my family we have loads of their devices from phones, tablets MP3 players and even TV, nobody is denying that they make good products that are highly desirable, You have 3 devices, I can count in to the tens in my family and I know the experiences. I have also personally replaced batteries in their phones, one was in a phone just after the user updated the software, and it did make some improvement but not much. I then placed that battery into the other phone which had not been updated and the phone lasted well over a day with fairly heavy usage for game playing, it was then updated, and the battery would only last a few hours without being on charge. Both of those phones have now been replaced with newer models. I however am the odd one out, I have Android phones. When you say, measure the battery voltage when while you turn up current draw and see the volt drop, welcome to basic physics 101, that proves nothing. The phones already have a built-in low power mode built-in that the user can elect to use to extend the battery life at the expense of unnecessary apps and screen goes to dark mode to conserve power and the system then prioritises the basic functions of a phone without all the bloatware. As to you repairing video cards, motherboards and monitors, well so have I and many other items, oscilloscopes, digital multimeters, signal generators, frequencies counters, mobile phones, calibrators etc. but when you come across custom ASICs and that chip was custom-made for a particular manufacturer and model, when that maker decides to pull the plug on that model and bring out a new one, those chips are no longer for sale and are destroyed because the manufacturer no longer wants to support that device and high-end oscilloscopes are rammed with them. Unless you can come across another scrapped scope that you could possibly scavenge the ASICs from, you are screwed, and even if you do find one, the chances are that it is the ASICs that have failed as well, as the standard IC's are far cheaper to source and would have been replaced and the scope dumped when the ASIC was found to be faulty and was as rare as hens teeth. Like you, I have also written software for some projects, and also designed the controls, built the panels, wrote the program software and installed and maintained the controls for a major crematorium and others including munition companies along with quite a lot of hospitals both NHS and private healthcare sectors. As for EV's and your personal experience, I don't have issues with that at all. If I could charge at home and only needed to do short trips and on the occasions I did long ones, if there were destination chargers at the venues, then I'd possibly swap my car for an EV and save vast amounts of money, but where I go, there are no destination chargers so that option is a currently a no-no. But does not stop me following the progress of electric cars and their development. One thing it does allow me to do is to look at the whole electric issue in the round without being financially and personally involved either way and so can see possible problems as well admire the performance and efficiency and their very low acoustic impacts

@wyx087 I know that I'm right about the IC's. Don't forget these items have been scrapped for a reason, many items scraped cost thousands of pounds just a few short years ago, and they get sent for repair first. If it were a dry solder joint, or something that could still be sourced or scavenged then they would have done so, we have the equipment to test items and data sheets to enable the injection of a signal into a chip and detect if the chip responds correctly using other test equipment which will show if an IC is defective.🤔 As to the phones, you can choose to believe what you want. One day, when the real truth gets out, remember, where you heard it first.

When I used to do caravaning, I used a Rover 2000TC as my tow car, but I gave all that up when I got married as my wife hates caravans. The Superb so caravan magazine says, makes an ideal tow car and was their tow car of the year for a while. I should imagine a DV would make an excellent tow car with their heavy batteries providing the sturdy anchor to keep the rig in check and also with their massive torque figures being so high. Their only problem is currently going to be the extra drain on the batteries and thus greatly reduced range between charges.

I'm talking about true electronics, not harness's I've lost count of the number of those that I've designed and made for vital pieces of oil field fire fighting equipment while working for Halliburtons and also on buses, lorries and cars over the years. I'm talking about IC chips, very often custom created for various functions and models that have limited production runs, once stocks are used up, it is then uneconomic to produce small amounts, far cheaper to replace the complete piece of equipment or car. Integrated circuit - Wikipedia Yes there is, Apple have been found guilty of downgrading the battery performance on some of their older phones at the same time as doing a software update over the air in the guise of the latest version of the operating software. There is nothing physical that stops the battery performing, it is software driven that gives false capacity readings and that will I guess then just anything that reports low battery capacity, shut the phone down until it is recharged. This was discovered when thousands of users reported that their phones had suddenly stopped lasting as long between charges following an operating system upgrade which all phone companies issue from time to time on phones that they are willing to support. Microsoft do Windows updates from time to time and then they will also stop doing so, case in point, Windows 10, introduced July 29th 2015 and all support will be pulled on Oct 14th 2025 and only Windows 11 (introduced Oct 5th 2021) will receive support. There will come a time when even Tesla will stop software support on their early models, but as long as the electronic control modules continue to operate, so will the cars.

Almost certain there will be anti-dumping duties on them, the Germans will certainly want to protect their carmakers.

It seems as if we are both saying almost the same things but not quite. I'm not confusing software updates with parts obsolescence, it is the parts that I'm referring to. Modern cars have so much tech in them these days compared to the example I gave with the 1908 Rolls Royce, a battery, coil, set of points was used and these can still be sourced today, hence the vast old classic car scene and annual rallies, London to Brighton runs etc. Todays cars are controlled by computers and electronics and it will be these parts that will become obsolete long before mechanical parts as most mechanical parts can be fabricated, electronic chips cannot, the world is full of dead electronic equipment that cannot be restored to working status because these chips are no longer made. Software can always be updated as long as there are people around who understand the programming language and can carry out the coding of the program. Software is just a language. Apple has been proved to be deliberately obstructing third party repairers and even coding things like batteries, screens, digitizers etc to specific phones, tablets etc, not just a model range, but each individual piece of equipment. The older products, if you can source batteries etc are fine, they predate their coding. They also degrade the battery performance of older devices as they reach the ending of software support, again this has been proven. Now if you attempt to replace a battery etc without going to a Apple Service centre, where they can code the part to the device, they device will now tell the user that the device is not a genuine part and react accordingly. About genuine iPhone batteries – Apple Support (UK)

@wyx087 Like it or not, your Tesla and my car all will suffer the same fate in time, certain crucial parts, cameras etc will be go out of production and will knock out certain functions when those parts fail and will not be available to buy. The same goes for your iPhone, and also my Android smartphone. I have already had to throw away many phones because the software updates just do not become available for the phone after a few years, and then you discover that slowly certain apps etc start to fall over as they are no longer being supported by the developers and so the process continues until you end with just a basic phone that nobody wants, assuming you can still get new batteries for it. Most companies, especially apple have started to code their batteries, screens etc to the phone and so they effectively kill it for you.

These problems may not be deliberately built-in but nonetheless they are there, many of them you have highlighted already, we have become a throwaway society and that is not being green in any way form. these videos throw further light on the problems and it makes zero difference if its a cheap car or not.

@Winston_WoofTesla's still have built-in obsolescence despite their over the air software updates as all that does is to address software issues in much the same way as Microsoft do with their Windows software updates, sometimes its to fix a bug or maybe to fix or add-in a small feature etc. The video and indeed as @Rootedsaid in his post about actual physical hardware failures is where the problem is coming from and the fact that the particular hardware might not be economical to continue making after a few years after a car has stopped production. The more equipment that is fitted to a car, and the more that equipment interacts with other bits on the car, just adds to the problem. By way of example, take this Rolls Royce Silver Ghost car, made in 1908 and still running today, I seriously doubt that there will not be a single car made today that will still be running in 116 years time. Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost - Wikipedia I have had a couple of software updates done on my car FOC but that does not class as fighting obsolescence, just rectifying an issue that was not correctly implemented in the first instance. @wyx087 The items that you mention, the matrix headlights, the autonomous driving etc will only be implemented where the physical hardware was already installed but was disabled because various countries where their cars are sold into, banned them from being used so Tesla, removed the software or disabled the software for those features from working, so that again is not an anti obsolescence measure at all. It just streamlines their own internal systems by reducing the administration required to keep their electronic systems operating in safe and secure fashion and to try and prevent hackers from gaining control over their cars systems etc. After all if they can make 2 production lines produce cars all the same apart from the option of right or left-hand drive, they only have to disable via software options not allowed in certain parts of the world once they know why each car is destined for, thus keeping their costs down and speeding up production.

Oh, I'm sorry, I must have got confused when you fast forwarded the ICE section of that video.

Guys, I feel that maybe I have inadvertently started a war between ICE and FV, and if I have, I apologise, but like the person or as @wyx087 quaintly, puts it, "The Talking Head" in that video I posted, and as I have tried to explain, but it seems unconvincingly, that the question I was posing, is exactly the same as the talking head was asking, do the newer models have built-in obsolescence? The clue was in the thumbnail and it seems that predictably some seem to be taking it as a direct attack on electric cars. I made a reference to electric cars because they are indeed mentioned in the video and like it or not, the Nissan Leaf is now in its 14th year so the early models could also be compared to the current model for example. Now I have the Mk3 Superb, but I have also had the Mk1 and the Mk2 versions and I can confidentially say that as far as the Superb is concerned, yes I do believe that is the case, the Mk3 is nowhere as well-made as the other two, and it is a very clever car, it is also too complicated and has too many gadgets and innovations to go wrong and I honestly see that in 10 years time if something like any of the ECU's fails, new spares would be like hens teeth, if for no other reason than the fact the hybrid chips used in them just will not be made any more such is the pace of electronics today. These chips are used in both ICE ad EV's that's a fact. I dabble in electronics and there are many items of decent consumer products which end up in land fill simply because some of the chips are no longer available.

@wyx087So you don't think that cars have built-in obsolescence then when compared with older cars. OK that's fine, I do and that is applicable to all new cars regardless of their motive power sources on my view.

Please look passed the EV battery statement and read what I wrote about what might have been the thinking at the time this video was made, 2 years ago and the alleged conditions, of which some people still think is true today. And also I did say that his was not all about electric cars, but that it included electric cars in the main point of the video, which was talking about the apparent built-in obsolescence, it was never exclusively about electric cars, please understand that. For the record, I was actually I totally disagree with your reaction because you honed in on the electric angle and based your whole decision on what is in your opinion, paddling the anti-EV FUD. Which is as far as I'm concerned not the aim of the video.

Totally disagree, did you do any research on this at all? This video is 2 years old already and maybe, 2 years ago that might well have been the current thinking and indeed it might well still apply today if the owner/driver was to always charge it upto 100% instead of the maximum of 80% in order to preserve the battery life. Also the constantly being charged at ultra-high speed v AC might not have been fully understood and also of course, this video is NOT an anti EV bashing exercise but is about all cars in general. I think you are just so finely tuned to EV's in general that you can't help but leap to the conclusion it, and I are anti EV which would be entirely wrong. I did ask for thoughts however and I respect yours, but respectively point out that I think you're wrong.

And once again back to the topic of the thread, yes this video is on topic as well as it covers electric cars and I thought that the video is pretty well researched and balanced, what are your thoughts on it?

@RootedWow, you certainly have some fantastic deals then, maybe it is the mobility aspect that gets the deals?

Just to be sure, are we actually talking about fully comprehensive or third party with these quotes? Mine are full comp. What model of BMW is that and what age is it as I'm fairly sure that would be much more to insure here.

Easier to vandalise / steal / break into on the drive though.

Exactly, where is the logic then??

@Winston_WoofOk, just done comparison quote for my current car, same parameters and the cheapest is Insure the Box, £528 car stored on the drive, 5,000PA, £1,000 excess value of car £10k, same car but stored in locked garage £586. Next I changed the excess from £1,000 to £300, same prices, WTF, do they just pluck prices out of the ether??

Well as a direct comparison, I did a quote based on 5,000 miles a year, 7 years NCD, £1,000 excess, garaged at home and charged elsewhere, aged 75 years, 58 years of driving, 1 accident, other drivers fault, at a CM1 postcode. The car is a secondhand Ioniq 5, 1 year old, 2,500 miles, 77KW battery £35,000, £30,000 lower price than the new one you did.

Most people would do way more than 5,000 miles in a year, and I would fully expect that if you were to try and repeat that exercise down these parts, that quote would be a magnitude higher.

Ok, this is the type of thing that makes zero sense to me, this amount of insane HP on a BEV which already have bonkers acceleration from the get go, why do they think that anybody actually needs that amount of power, 1100HP? BYD to test appetite for huge, 1100bhp Defender rival at Geneva | Autocar

The video just highlights a few of the drawbacks of EV cars in general, although these are particularly bad in the case of a rental at an airport. AS he said, he got diverted off the motorway due to road works etc, and this type of thing can happen at anytime of the day or night for a variety of reasons, all of which are outside the drivers control and so it is easy to find maybe find yourself arriving below the 80% threshold with very limited time remaining in order to make checking in time for your flight. So what do you do? Hunt down a charger and hope that its free and working and also that you can top the battery to just over 80% and get back to the rental depot, and still make the check in on time? Unlike a ICE car, it only takes a few more seconds to fill an empty tank than it does to put in a couple of gallons??? I think EV cars do not make a good choice to rent under those circumstances.