Graham Butcher

@lol-lol I get your point about there being more trailers, but the point there is you just don't see many tractor units from the companies I listed hauling other people's trailers. Yes, I have seen the odd one or two here or there of, say, Turner's tractors hauling trailers with other names on them, but very few, so I think it is reasonable to assume that the majority of the HGVs listed as registered in the UK are for complete units, not just tractors with trailers making up the majority. Don't forget that a trailer has no power unit, so it is NOT registered, and from what I have seen and learnt from my time when I was a truck driver for a number of years, there will be significantly more trailers than trucks. When trucks arrive at a warehouse/factory, etc., with a trailer full for that customer, it is highly likely the driver will back the trailer to a loading bay and drop it, then pick another trailer, either empty or maybe full of new products produced at the factory, etc., and then transport them to their destination. And then that process starts all over again and again. When a truck is not moving, it is not earning, and with many transport companies, especially those with regular contracts moving stuff between factories and distribution centres, etc., it will very much be a 24/7 operation with drivers on shift patterns and changing over when a truck rolls into one of those centres. Anyone who watched the TV series about Eddie Stobart truckers will have seen that in operation. Now with a diesel, maybe 20 to 30 minutes of refuelling, and then that tractor could leave the complex with a fresh driver at the wheel and a new trailer attached. A 22 or 25 kW charger would stick in the battery in a short time. What, 10 or 15 miles of range? They will have to go with the largest chargers available, and that is where your massive load on the grid will come from. Don't forget that currently the grid struggles at times, and we only have currently a low percentage of electric cars on the road, and at times those with V2G capability are selling some of their cars' power back to the grid to help out. When you start getting HGV trucks demanding chargers of 350 kW and higher to keep trucks moving as much as possible, the grid will severely stretched. You say yourself that you was disappointed to see chargers at Exeter and Baldock were only 350 kW and hopeful of seeing 500 kW and even 1 MW arriving in the 12 months. So that will make matters even worse, not better.

That advert actually turned out not to be for a particular car, it was a generic advert for electric cars in general, so I'm guessing it was sponsored by the government to help prop up dwindling sales and try to get back onto the right path for their ambitious targets.

Well, that 350 KW and the 400 KW is much much more than the 22 KW that you was talking about to begin with, but you are missing the point I fear when you try to compare the UK with Europe etc, we are not ONLY lagging behind in the charger network, but we are seriously lagging in the generation stakes, which is the very point that I was trying to illustrate when mentioned the amount of power that just 2,700 32-tonne juggernauts (Turners of Soham fleet, only) would require to recharge their batteries overnight. These trucks will not want to take a risk on partially charging their trucks because of operational factors that are likely to impact their daily routines, and destinations and routes can and do change to reflect local circumstances, and the last thing they want, and indeed you would want, is to come across a number of these trucks stuck on the motorways, dual carriageways, etc., because they miscalculated the amount of energy required for their working day. You may want to take risks in your car, but they would not. A simple car breakdown in the wrong place causes enough problems to the traffic flow; think of the consequences of one of these trucks doing the same. For example: Based on data regarding the UK's largest logistics operators, the top 15 transport and logistics companies operate a combined fleet of over 35,000 to 40,000 HGVs (Heavy Goods Vehicles). Key industry leaders contributing to this total include: DHL Supply Chain: One of the largest, frequently topping fleet lists with thousands of trucks. Wincanton: Operates over 3,500 vehicles. Culina Group: A major player following the acquisition of Eddie Stobart, Great Bear, and others. GXO Logistics: A leading operator, with trailer fleets exceeding 5,000 in some reports. Royal Mail Group: Operates a very large,4,000+ trailer/HGV fleet. Kinaxia Logistics: Operates approximately 920 vehicles. Other top firms in the top 15-30 rankings contributing to this, as identified by CILT(UK) and Motor Transport, include XPO, DPD, Kuehne + Nagel, Turners (Soham), Maersk, and Eddie Stobart. Context on Fleet Sizes: There are over 530,000 licensed HGVs in Great Britain. The top 1,000+ fleets in the UK collectively hold operator licences for over 300,000 trucks. The top 25 trailer fleets in the UK are responsible for well over 100,000 trailers I'm not talking large fleets with small to meduim sized vans and last mile delivery vans but proper full sized trucks like those below. If the electric dream actually does continue and not get derailed, then I have no doubt that the UK will get there in the fullness of time

I think I'd trust my rough calculations over yours on this one. Single-phase or three-phase makes diddly squat difference to the huge amount total power required to recharge those HGVs. Typical HGV especially the articulated trucks used for tramping up and down the motorways (32-tonners, etc.), will not have car-sized batteries but something in the 700 to 800 KWH range, these will require huge amounts of power just to recharge 1 truck overnight ready for the following day's work. We already know that towing a caravan behind an electric car will approximately halve the range; that's the practical range, not the theoretical range quoted by the manufacturers. These HGVs will be using the 150KW+ chargers, not the 22KW ones that you mention and given Ed Miliband's ambitious plans to effectively drive diesel trucks off the roads within a very short time frame. Hinkley Point C power station is not due to come online until the mid-2030s, and those DC chargers are already three-phase chargers.

I really can't see that working out, the sheer amount of power needed to charge those trucks is massive and its fine saying that will have those charging locations at roughly 4.5 hours distance from each other to coincide with the legal driving hours of a truck driver. That does not take into account of where the truck starts its working day and or the traffic/weather/road conditions etc all of which will have massive impacts on the distance travelled in that 4.5 hours from their starting location. Take 2 of the top 15 truck fleet operators in the UK, Eddie Stobbart and Turners of Soham who have almost 6,000 HGV's between them, if they all get plugged in to charge overnight, then those 2 operators alone will take as much power from the grid as 2 cities the size of Birmingham takes. So 2,700 HGV's (Eddie Stobarts fleet alone) @ an average of 200KWH charging speed equates to a staggering 540MW per hour. The city uses daily 13,424.6MW so divide that by 24 gives a figure of 559MW per hour. It is estimated that drops to 30% at night, that drops to approximately 168MW per hour, these figures are not allowing for heating, so add on the HGV total charge per hour, 540+168=708MW. Bear in mind that there will be some element of solar energy supplied during the day, zero at night, so the extra energy will no doubt come from fossil fuels before Hinckly Point C comes online in about 10 years time but it will only supply 3,200MW so we still need many more stations to power the massive demands of electric road transport if the above figures are correct, and they only allow for just 1 fleet of 2,700 HGV's. Bear in mind that there are approximately 742,000 HGVs registered in the UK currently and this is growing. Edit to add some more precise info on some electric trucks. i.e., Volvo have battery capacities to 565 KHw and designed to charge from DC chargers 250KW to 350KW, full charge on 250KW in 2.5 hours or 350KW in 90 minutes and has a range of upto 300Km or 180 miles, so roughly London to Sheffield (140miles). So that trip would require a minimum of 90 minutes to recharge for the return trip, and that is twice the time normally allowed for a drivers break by law, which is 45 minutes after 4.5 hours driving.

Yes, even I have some trouble trying to use the touch controls for the radio, sat nav, telephone etc on my central screen, Thank god there are major controls like heating, etc. controlled that way.

Latest news is that Jaguar are now thinking about walking away from making only BEV and instead looking at ICE as a REX. Jaguar explores part-petrol car after pledging to go ‘all electric’

This morning I heard on the radio an advert for an electric car. I forgot what the car was, but it was the way that they were advertising it that caught my attention. They were say that it can drive from London to Sheffield on a single charge, which costs just £5. That struck me as being extremely misleading because they are assuming the car is charged at home and the car has a capacity of at least 45 kWh, and based on getting 4 miles to the KW, it would require a full charge of 6 hours on a 7 kW home charger in order to get 42 kWh stored. What about the return trip, that is highly likely to cost around 6 times as much, approx £30.

I know that some of the electric owners/drivers think that this YouTuber is very biased against electric cars, but as it turns out, he isn't; he drives a Tesla in reality, as he explains in this video. His gripe with them is very much with the fire hazards posed by them (not surprising as he is a fireman) along with the safety issues presented by the touch interface for controls and the lack of proper mechanical door handles to prevent people being trapped inside them when things go wrong. (859) I Drove an EV 400 Miles in Winter: A Real-World Test - YouTube

All these figures being quoted do nothing but show precisely what I've always said about what car you have. If the car size is fine for you and meets your usage, wish list or dream car, and you can afford all of the costs involved, then those are the only things that matter. If the above is fine for you, then you should be able to go out and get whatever type and size of car that fits the parameters that work for you. When I started driving, the cars were petrol powered, and diesel was very much the domain of heavy transport and buses. I've always had petrol cars up to the time when I was given a diesel-powered loan car when my company car was in for servicing. I enjoyed that time I had with it and the relaxed driving style compared to petrol. I asked for a diesel car when time came round to replace the old car, and was granted my wish and for the last 30 years or so, that has been my powerplant of choice. That has always been my argument about electric cars, the other issues I raise are secondary ones, but the main reason for not liking the current situation is that the choice is being removed. You want to have a NEW car; that's fine, but its slowly becoming the only option available.

I never posted about it before, as I was not expecting to come across any external source to present as evidence with my post, because certain others insist on seeing the proof, or otherwise it is a nonevent.

Oh, so there does indeed seem to be some provenance out there, at least to the fact that April 2026 is when these changes will become effective. I wonder just how they plan to test all the safety and drivers aid systems built into cars, which include emergency braking, cruise control, etc.? I also heard them talking about how any sign of battery casing damage could also mean a failure to pass the test.

I overheard MOT testers talking about it when getting my car tested earlier this month. Apparently nothing is planned to be publicly announced about these changes; they will just be quietly introduced. It is going to be far tougher for ICE vehicles as well to pass the MOT then.

Electric, if it suits your requirements for the daily usage pattern and if most of your charging can be done at home using cheap electric, or free at work etc, then yes, an electric car could well be the perfect car for you, especially if you can negate the massive depreciation that comes with them. If you plan to keep the car long-term and can escape the replacement battery costs (should it be needed) with home charging, mostly short local journeys, etc., then they can be excellent packages and sound financial cases. Has anyone discovered anything about the tougher MOT tests that are supposed to be operational from April this year? Rumour has it all the driver aids will be part of it, such as lane keep assist, blind spot monitoring, and others, etc., will also be part of the MOT. It is also apparently has a gotcha for electric cars on battery degradation, if the battery hits 70% of its capacity, then it the car becomes an instant MOT failure and banned from further use???

So that would be the dubious SMMT?

Just what is this chart showing, and what is its source, please?

I see you fell for the hype regarding diesel not going to be sold shortly with the first to stop selling it being London. Just follow the money trail on where that guff came from. It will be years before diesel is withdrawn from sale, if it ever does, which I doubt it will. Demand for diesel powered cars is increasing, not declining, with the 2nd hand prices climbing steadily, well above the trade book prices they are going for in auctions. To run alongside this, the second hand prices of BEV's and all kinds of hybrids is still dropping like a stone.

Yes, that is total guff, just a narrative designed to generate more movement towards electric in an attempt to shaw up waning sales and get back on track. Second hand diesels in the auctions are showing a rise in demand along with increased selling prices, sometimes selling well above book prices.

The figures are out, despite all the claims that EVs were flying out the showrooms, they still managed to sell even less than they did in 2024. In 2024 the target was 22%, infact total number of new cars sold last year was 2,020,373 and in 2019 they sold 2,300,000 new cars, meaning that people are hanging onto their old cars longer. In 2024, the target for EV's was 22% of new cars, but only 19.6% was hit, down 3.4% on the target set by the government and last year the target was supposed to be 28% but only achieved 23.4%, down 4.6%. I wonder just how low that percentage would be if it was not all those forced onto mobility scheme users and cars being pre-registered and then SORN and parked up?

Agreed, if you are in the recovery business, then you should have at least 2 of those skates if not 4, on board, especially as they also remove the need to locate the actual jacking point on a car, plus some cars should be placed into jack mode before jacking to avoid suspension damage.

@Evolution13 the reason I showed that is because there as many 30 year old in use and those over 40 years as there are electric. Those are old cars, I serisouly doubt that we will be seeing any electric cars last that long the battery and electronics will have died well before then. I have remote controls about 10 years old that have had their batteries removed and put in storage as the item they were for was also not used, that died while in storage even. I wonder why couldn't jack the Jag up and pop skates under each wheel to recover it? I have seen that done before on big ICE limousines before and even moved sidewards on them?

Interesting car and is a genuine step forward with that range, just like the Gen 2 Porsche Taycan, but once again these cars are missing the point when it comes to the driver interface. The digital tech the car has at your fingertips on the central screen is ideal when you're parked up, but to have all of that going on while driving is a major distraction in my view. It would be a real contender in so many ways if the controls were reverted back to switches, buttons and rotary controls, all of which can be operated without having to look at them or navigate through menus, etc. It is, is it not deemed dangerous and carries a hefty fine and penalty points to even hold a mobile phone, let alone use it and yet somehow it seems OK to do complicated controls for various functions on the car via a touch screen. Utter looniness and this is not just because it is an EV, all modern cars, even my Kodiaq, have some controls via the screen. How long will it be before the DFT decide to ban the operation of controls, thus controlled? Aren't they already considering steps against the interacting with a satnav while driving?

Those "quite old" electrified vehicles, as you put it, are still comparably young when compared against some of the old ICE cars still in daily use, plus of course all the heritage and classic cars which may only come out for 6 months a year to attend the many classic car rallies and summertime fun drives. These cars carry signifcantly higher fire risks than cars from the 2000s, as the fuel lines etc. are all aged, and parts have aged and deteriorated far more than those on more modern cars, and also considering that the older cars are far more likely to be using homemade parts for some components, as manufacturers only have an obligation to make parts available for 10 years. Consider this.

This is part of the problem, the fire brigades have not been keeping accurate records of precisely what type of car fires that they have been called to, and this is a worldwide problem, as that fireman on StacheD Training mentioned in one of his videos that I linked to sometime ago. He also mentioned that the fire statistic chart that has been heralded by most of the EV clan as proof that electric cars do not catch fire as often as ICE cars. This selfsame chart has been used as proof of that claim since 2018, that makes those figures 7 years out of date.

That's what I said, 39% for all battery fires, as you discovered they don't breakdown the figures. But 39% is i large increase, if that was BEV sales you all would be trumpting it as proof that electric was the future, when in reality sales are around half that percentage figure. If there were 39% increase in ICE fires you all would shouting it from the roof tops, again claiming electric cars are far less likely to catch fire. You have to be fair, the fires are Lithium related and not oil. The only real difference between electric cars and scooters / bikes is one of scale!