Graham Butcher

@lol-lol where are these 2 water cooling systems on modern cars, please, all the ICE engines I have ever come across only have the one system. I think you may be getting confused again about your EV which I believe does have 2 systems, one for the electric motor and invertor cooling and the other for the battery pack, geez I thought everybody was claiming that EV cars are simpler, that does not sound like it to me so far.

Yet another incident of a PHEV exploding and making people homeless.

That is all fine and dandy as long as the full emissions trail and the method of assessing it is also conducted in an open fair way with all forms of EV's as well. Like I said, we all have to be using the same system and standards on both sides of the ICE v EV thing or otherwise it is just pointless.

The reason why I said that it was small SUV was because of what I call small boot size, the 5 seat Mk1 Kodiaq is supposed to hold 910 litres with the rear seats up and expands to 2105 litres when they are folded down.

Lab results or not, that is all we have to go on, and its just the same with EV cars, you can't have it both ways, we all have to be using the same set of results or else any discussion is pointless. Like in the case of the number of EV cars going into thermal runaway which everyone points out that ICE cars catch fire far more often, which anyone with half a brain knows that the figures being quoted are wrong, as the same figures keep being quoted every year and the chart that the figures are on does not alter at all. We know that is wrong as fire chiefs and depts around the world are all saying the same thing, they have not been identifying and recording what type of car fire they attend, they all get recorded as car fires. They are now beginning to develop system for the correct identification of the type of car and whether the batteries were in runaway mode or not. It all brings into sharp focus just where the figures that are being quoted originated from, they certainly were not qualified firefighters that is for sure. One thing we can all hope and prayer for is that because of better record keeping of the fire depts all over the world, that better methods of tackling batteries in runaway mode will emerge.

@lol-lol yes I was looking at the bigger one, I was too sure of which you had.

The Kodiaq is available in both 5 and 7 seat models, mine just happens to be a dedicated 5 seat, it is however as far as I can see, identical in size on Mk1 version like mine. When I was looking for replacement for the Superb, I tried a 7 seat version for size and there was no way of fitting my family of 6ft 4" sons in it for anything longer than a quick run into town shopping. The boot size was also poor as the extra 2 seat eat away at the space and in order to fit 7 people in it, the middle row have been moved forward. The 5 seat model does not have that problem, it is on a par with the Superb for passenger space, but because you are sitting more upright, the overall length could be and has been shortened so it is smaller overall footprint on the road. I'm not even to comment on the rest of your reply as I'm perfectly sure that time will clearly show that many of the claims being made to convince us of climate change is simply not true., so let time show us who was right.

@wyx087 it matters not a jot about the actual HP of my car, which the answer is right their, simple maths 110kw divide by 746 which gives the result in HP is 148HP. Now we get to what is probably the real cause of the damage to roads and its not the weight, that is someone trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes, weight compresses the road, ever driven on a road that sees loads of heavy lorries, they leave tram lines in the tarmac, they don't rip it up creating potholes. Now applying lots of HP to make a quick getaway is the culprit, as the tyres are trying to lay that power down and if the road has not been properly prepared for that or has been cheaply resurfaced/patched with tarmac of poor quality or the layer is thinner than it should be, it will flex and give weakening the surface. Back in 2019, a visiting 1952 Jet Vampire had been attending a air display and on take off its single engine (no after burner was ever fitted to this type of plane (precedes after burners), the jet blast managed to rip huge chunks of the runways tarmac and blow them all over the place, destroying the runway in the process jet engine - How did this Vampire's takeoff damage the runway so much? - Aviation Stack Exchange The airfield was in daily use by less powerful propeller powered planes without such problems, so that clearly shows the destructive force of massive HP being applied to surfaces not designed to cope with it. You never hear anything like that happening at say Heathrow because the runway is designed to handle hp laid down by planes like the A380. Chip on my shoulder, hell no. I am fed up with the blame for everything being laid at the feet of all ICE vehicles and their owners by the EV owners who never consider that they could be doing just as much damage with their cars and claiming false stats which are years out of date and based on beliefs rather than facts. Nobody actually needs the 300HP you mention, certainly not in the UK when we have a maximum speed limit of 70 and ever increasing pressure to lower then to just 20mph in many places and crap roads and traffic to contend with. I often get left for dead by some of these electric cars at traffic lights etc, only to eventually roll up and stop right behind them again at the next hold up, so what did they gain from all that power?? It would make far more sense if they restricted the power of electric cars and gave greater range instead so that they could begin to rival ICE cars in performance and range, but with the added benefit of (if you can) charge at home and reduce operating costs. Such a move would I expect greatly benefit the uptake of them with the public in general. Yes, as you rightly said there are many ICE cars far heavier, just as their are BEV cars as well. The Skoda Enyaq is a small BEV SUV, built on a dedicated electric platform yet it comes in at L 4658mm, W 2148, H 1624 and kerb weight of 2137kg (some 428kg heavier than mine) and also has a GVW of 2,500kg, so that is an example of purpose built BEV car being heavier then a diesel car of similar size from the same stable using old tech platform designed for ICE, fancy that, so that does indeed appear to suggest that like for like, BEV's are actually heavier, I think you'll agree that the Kodiaq and the Enyaq size wise seem to be very similar?

Yes the measurements are indeed mirror tip to mirror tip and I think the parking bay referred to is the one marked out at the road side and can often be seen that hardly any cars can actually fit into them without their wheels breaching the dotted lines. This is further aggravated by the fact that measure directly from the kerb out towards the road and as most cars have alloys these days, few people are willing to rub the kerb with their wheels for fear of damage to their alloys.

Oh dear, well now this is rather embarrassing, have either @wyx087 or @lol-lol actually checked their own stats I wonder, lets dissect it a bit shall we, might good for a laugh if nothing else, 😃 Me. Kodiaq 110kw TDI 4x4, DSG 5 seater L 4697mm W 2087mm H 1660mm KB 1709kg Wyx087 Tesla Model Y LR L 4790mm W2129mm H 1623mm KB 1997kg Lol-Lol Scenic L4470mm W 2085mm H 1570mm KB 1906kg Given that @wyx087 seems to think that the Chelsea tractors are mostly to be seen with only 1 or 2 people in them, and the kerb weight of cars is given as the operating weight with 1 driver of around 75kg, the motive plant is full of all required liquids and in the case of ICE, fuel tank fuel to 90% which is really a more sensible figure rather than the GVW as that is how they are used most often. Now lets look at the list presented 1 to 6. Bigger danger to cyclists, pedestrians and other road users. How is this possible given the above. Doing more road damage. Well, here the electric cars are indeed heavier than my diesel car, so do more road damage. General worse emissions. Here based purely on tailpipe emissions, I have to concede, I'm the worst 😒 Oft near the edges, or over, the parking boxes they are suppose to fit in. Here all should fit in the normal bay which is 2.4m wide by 4.8m long, trouble is though that I expect the marked bays are often smaller than they should be. Could be a good extra revenue raiser. Well based on the 3 examples, Tesla owners should be paying most of it.😂 Make traffic queues longer. this one is really stretching it a bit don't you think? So in conclusion it would indeed seem that the EV car could very well be actually heavier than a big diesel SUV with 4x4 drive, transfer box and a heavy old DSG gearbox and also even bigger overall, who knew. 😉 I used to berate the Chelsea Tractors myself until I kind of joined them, but for the right reasons, I doubt that anybody can claim that a Kodiaq is a aspirational vehicle, unlike a Range Rover or a Mercedes Benz G Wagon, which can be north of a £100k. The biggest problem with them is that if you are in a small car, especially a low slung sports car (which are themselves aspirational, Aston Martin, Ferreria, Porsche etc) then they can be very hard to see past, other wise, they are not large in reality as demonstrated above.

Of course, they have a function to serve, but does that make it any less likely that you could be hit by one? Without that crumble zone, more force of the hit will find its way through to you, and make the difference between life and death. I seriously doubt that many people are buying large cars to inflate their ego; more likely, it's because they need the space that they offer. Yes, there are exceptions to that rule, i.e., the huge stretched luxury barges that only have a chauffeur and one person in the back. If it were only me and my Mrs, then I dare say that I'd be driving a smaller car, but it's not, and until recently, I had elderly and frail relatives that needed transporting and shopping done, etc, and needed the extra space. Now both I and the Mrs. need the extra ease of getting in and out of the Kodiaq, so there are many reasons why people need what you call excessively large vehicles, as indeed you may find yourself needing one, in later life, for varying reasons.

Oh dear then, so that means vans, lorries and buses are a huge no then.🙄

That has not been my experience, even if it was me in the car, I feel much more at ease in the Superb than I have ever felt in smaller cars, Polo, UP, Golf, Mondeo, Passat, Octavia, Audi A4, Mercedes Benz C class, etc. I say only me, because I could comfortably drive and have driven all of them and more besides but on loads of them my seat would so far back that not nobody could seat behind me. I'm not in the slightest bit bothered about being the first one away from traffic lights, or all out speed. What I require from a car is that it is comfortable so I can do a longish drive and get out still feel fresh. If I can't drive from London to Telford for a all day business meeting then the car is not suitable. It has to be big enough that my family can be accommodated with enough performance to get me out of trouble if ever required and be safe with predictable handling. The Superb did all of that with aplomb.

That is a crap argument, crumble zones are on both vehicles and are designed to maximise the survivability of an accident.

No, always had the 110kw version. Never paid attention to the kerb weights, just going by the way the car felt. Each time they felt less well built than the old model did.

I'm not so sure about the Germans not bothering about weight reduction. Noticed that with every facelifted version of the Superb I've had, they are lighter in construction, and this can be felt as well. The Kodiaq for instance has some weight reduction measures as well, for instance uses more plastic clips for holding trim pieces in place over metal clips and screws and infill panel between the front wings and the A pillar are now also made from honeycombed plastic instead of metal.

But with the VED being based on weight, it will also encourage cars to be made out of thinner gauge metal or even plastic and then I would expect even higher road fatalities as a result of there being less material to use as crumble zones to absorb energy. It really is time for some truly joined up thinking by our illustrious leaders.

The point is, that once again you are not understanding the issue, if a person wanted a Range Rover, they would not be purchasing a Tesla model 3 so your comparison is useless. As I have maintained throughout, the type of car anyone buys should be a personal choice, not stipulated by any government and the climate change is demonstrably a red herring. We never had any standards for tailpipe emissions until 1992 in Europe, so up to then we had billions of tons of CO2 spewing out into the atmosphere which is blamed for global warming, so how is that we had such a really cold winter here in Europe in 1963 when everything almost came a halt as we were covered in metres of snow, diesel etc was freezing, trains and planes were virtually useless, ships were ice locked, but there was all of the CO2 in the air? I remember that time well, we had ice forming in our bathroom with the water in the U bend to the bath actually freezing solid.

The parts of a Rolls Royce are mounted onto subframes and then mounted onto the frame, so on an ICE version, all the parts required to hold the engine and transmission, including the rear axle and drive shaft etc are all preassembled and installed as a single unit, so there is no left over bits and bobs when it comes to the electric versions. The car body is monocoque construction that the assemblies are attached to, so each body is bespoke to the type of drive train and fuel used, so is optimised to suite it. It is not a mass production car maker like the Vauxhall Corsa that you mentioned. The wheelbase and length of each type of Rolls Royce mentioned is completely different, once again completely different to that of a mass production car where standardisation of parts is necessary. The weight of a car, regardless of the make will vary according to the design and specification, dual motor, long range, larger battery pack etc. I really don't get it why you keep on about the ICE cars require special considerations over that of an EV? If anything I would say that the EV requires extra bracing and stiffening in order to handle the increases and instantaneous torque that you all go about that EV cars have and their ability to smoke an ICE away from traffic lights and their quicker 0-60mph figures. The Tesla Model 3 weight you quoted was the curb weight and not the GVW, which we have been discussing, and as to a lazy reply, I think that it was you who once insisted that I include links, so the lazy part of that is, you for not reading the article.

Yet another electric car (prototype) left sitting in a showroom for a year, not being charged either so the battery was highly likely with a really low SOC. This car was in the HQ of Faraday Future Loas Angeles when it suddenly blew up overnight. As expected, the Faraday Future's statement played down the event and tried to whitewash the battery playing any part of the problem, instead suggesting that buildings electrics had caused to explosion, which has rendered the building unsafe as a outside wall has been fractured. Strange how the video just shows the car itself being blacked and damaged by the fire, the rest of the building and indeed the showroom itself seem to be undamaged, but the fire brigades own hazmat teams reported all the telltale signs of a high-voltage battery Li-ion battery with all of the associated deadly gas levels. The company is a Chinese company who have their HQ based there and are producing electric cars and selling them in both China and USA. Faraday Future - Wikipedia

The answer to the mini v series 5 BMW question I would have thought was obvious, different cars are built to do different jobs, a mini is more of city car and the other is mile muncher in comfort on motorways etc. A person would buy the car that best suited their needs and their finances. While it is true that the Spectre rides on same platform as the "Phantom and Cullinan.", it is also claimed by Rolls Royce that the platform was specially designed to be modular and adaptable and especially designed to allow electric version as well and will be their platform for new models. So it is not an old ICE platform forced into being electric, it was designed to be electric in the first place, it is a new platform, not one from the dark ages. I don't think EV's are satans creation either, that is just how you see fit to see me because I don't fit in with your viewpoint. If you are going to be honest about these things, then you would be able to admit that I have concerns about the various claims being made about the batteries and the environment and the hazard that they can present in the case of a thermal runaway of the battery. Always stated that and that it is wrong to make new car purchases become electric by law until all the problems associated with them, home charging, range, firefighting, etc are overcome. I also do not believe the claims being made about the emissions of ICE cars are as bad as the claims as todays cars bear no resemblance to earlier cars and they are getting cleaner than ever all the time. It also is not necessarily the truth that electric cars are lighter than ICE cars Are EVs heavier than petrol cars? - We Power Your Car If you really want an ultra lightweight ice car then check out the Aixam City diesel powered car at just 350kg or its electric version at 425kg.

I see, but in all honesty, it just takes about 10 minutes max to swap the module over and clear the fault code.

OK, please keep me updated, but why does it take a couple of weeks? This video shows how easy it is, you don't need to remove the engine cover either, but it is only a push on cover so will just lift off if you pull it upwards.

That's not always the case, the Superb was front wheel drive but still had a tunnel down the centre of the floor in order to take the exhaust pipe and thus keep the overall height of the car low to improve it's drag coefficient as low as possible.

Personally, I think that is a complete fallacy, it everything to do with the actual physical size and its intended use of the vehicle. Clearly a small fun sized car like a mini is going to weigh less than a 5 series BMW which is designed to be 5 seater luxuury car with room for the occupants to stretch their leggs out and not be cramped in it. One is designed to be a small city car, the other is mile muncher, its like comparing a 2 up and 2 down terrace house in town with a manor house nearer the edge of town. Is a Tesla Model X not a electric car well designed to be an electric car from the base up then, they only make electric cars don't they and yet depending on the exact trim and variant it weighs in at a staggering GVW of between 2,700kg to 3,100kg, and a Rolls-Royce Spectre comes in at 3,400kg and that was also designed to be electric only. I really do wish you would stop trying to prove that electric cars are so special in every way, we all get it that you are 100% converted to all things electric and love them, as you are perfectly entitled to, but the fact is that it is life style choice that you have made for yourself and that electric cars, just like ICE cars, do come in all sizes, shapes, and weights, and are designed to fulfill certain things that were in the designers brief or wish list.