Graham Butcher

Thank you for providing some clarity here, but the fire blanket and the need for dragging the car out from where is, is not required for normal ICE vehicles as they can normally be dealt with and extinguished in just a few short moments with just conventional fire hoses.

Regardless whether the heater or whatever started the fire, it is nonetheless a fact that the battery did indeed enter thermal runaway and witnessed by the jets of flame emitted from beneath the car, not the frunk. The real truth here is that it does not matter the fact that it was an EV, but that that the battery was in thermal runaway, at which point normal fire fighter techniques are completely 100% ineffective as no amount of water, foam, CO2 or fire blanket will stop the fire until the battery is fully consumed by it. Upto the point of when the batteries become part of the fire, then the fire is exactly the same as any other car, regardless of its propulsion system. If the car is plugged and charging at the time of the fire, then is possible that the car can be unplugged and moved away from the charger, as was the case in this incident, then it is just the same proceedure as for an normal ICE vehicle. Not all EV cars on fire actually involve the batteries, and is just same for ICE fires, not all of them involve the fuel. I don't see any youtuber or indeed anyone on this forum whinging, that is a misconception that is currently being held by certain existing EV owners who are in complete denial of the real danger that EV vehicles pose. They are worse than an ICE vehicle and that as their numbers grow, such incidents will increase. Then if a battery goes into thermal runaway, near another EV, such as car parks, especially underground or multistorey then the problems just will continue to get worse until an effective method of preventing and or controlling the fire and its impact.

@wyx087 this one is directly 100% related to EV fires, seeing that it is Nissan Leaf that was being charged at the time in a shopping carpark, this the accompanying text of the YouTube video which was all shot by the Colorado fire dept. They were able to position trolleys beneath the back wheels and drag the car away from the charger and surrounding trees, evacuated nearby businesses so as to avoid people getting caught in the toxic fumes. After the battery had burnt itself out, they then doused the car inside to put the internal fire out. Then they dragged it onto a tow truck (not sure why they called it a tow truck, it was a flat bet transporter) and then at that point they deployed the fire blanket over the car while it was being taken to special breakers dealing with EVs. All the equipment that the fire crews had used, tunics etc, all had to be collected, double bagged and taken away to a special decomtamination centre and replaced if it can't be cleaned and made safe for the crews again. None of this is actually required with ICE fires. Here is the text extracted from the video. 85,401 views Oct 2, 2025 #colorado #electricvehicle #littletoncolorado An EV caught fire while charging outside a King Soopers in Littleton, Colorado, on September 28, prompting evacuations as firefighters let the lithium battery blaze burn itself out. The New York Post is your source for breaking news, news about New York, sports, business, entertainment, opinion, real estate, culture, fashion, and more.

@classic yes, I know he does, he has never ever tried to hide the fact that he loves the way that they drive etc, his only gripe is with the state of the charging infrastructure and the problems that early cars are having, believing that the technology is currently not suitable for mass adoption and that it should be left to the market place to decide when it is right to do so. I'm pleased that I introduced you to his channel, I do enjoy it myself, I find him to be a genuine person and quite entertaining, especially when he does challenges with other YouTubers. I'm also pleased that his channel helped you to decide that you also wanted to get an EV, and as I've always said, that if and EV fits your needs and lifestyle, then why not get one, I'm just anti the political push and can see that it be discovered to be the wrong move in a few year's time, much the same as with diesel, they need to be part of the overall mix and are ideal for city dwellers if they can charge them OK. So the upshot of it all, is that the MacMaster is not all a doom and gloom merchant, just a person who calls it as he sees it, highlighting both the good and bad bits of EV ownership.

Yes, that was my point, when they claim that presidents and royalty etc were using cars made by xyz, they were not using standard off the shelf models that the average person can get hold off, there is nothing remotely special about your Scenic, it is just a bog-standard half decent family runabout that just happens to suit your family needs. It is highly debatable that it would suit my needs with 4 of my family being 6ft 4" and 2 of us built like the proverbial brick **** houses and reasonable tall SWMBO. We also need a large boot to lug all the shopping home and to pop in a pair of step ladders at the weekend when we go plane spotting. There are many people like us, who do struggle to find a car that is suitable and affordable without going into the luxury car bracket of the S class etc, which are all far north of the £40,000 figure that is claimed by our authorities as a luxury car. On the Citroen front, yes, the DS when it came out was light years ahead of the competitors and in many ways, it still is. It had the world's finest suspension system, I've driven my old bosses DS23 Pallas on many occasions and it was silky smooth on the road and it was even possible to mount kerbs without any perception of doing so inside the car. The engine as well, although people claim it was lacklustre, at the time it was more than enough when compared to other cars of the era and it is only now noticeable because cars got more powerful over the years.

He said that he really wanted a 911 ICE, but the amount of money it would have cost him to get out of an EV was eye watering. Nottingham Porsche were able to put a deal together if he went for another EV Porsche, he revealed that in an earlier video.

Sorry, but I'm not seeing it, I can understand poorer nations having to use normal family cars from the top model, but France is not one of those countries, it is a wealthy and powerful nation and as such the president should have something a bit more fitting. I mean a 4.7 metre Renault Rafale has no room for the extra security fittings that such a VIP would want to require in today's world. Surely the cars have some special features that set them apart, such as body protection, double glazing, bigger and more powerful engines, partition between the front and rear seats as well as extra legroom in the rear?

Even so, the Scenic is not any more a luxury than a Skoda Superb, or Kodiaq is. What I call a luxury car would be something like a BMW 7 series, Audi A8, Mercedes S Class, and higher cars like Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Bentley, Range Rovers etc.

That statement alone is sending a massive red signal to anyone with the ability to acknowledge it, since when has a luxury car been valued as low as £40k? I would hardly call a Scenic a luxury car.

You're seeing things much differently to the actual results, revenue as we all know, did infact rise during that period with the all the windfall profits that all the energy companies had, do you recall that? What I find interesting is that the peak demand for petrol was in 1990 with some 32770 million litres being used as opposed to just 12891 million litres of diesel with the peak usage being in 2018 with 16600 million litres of petrol and a massive 30510 million litres of diesel, which is pretty damming on the governments as they were hailing diesel as the fuel of the future and encouraging the switch to diesel, sounds familiar doesn't it? As to 2022 being a Covid year, are you claiming that it makes my figures wrong? All travel restrictions anywhere within the UK were lifted as of March 18, in 2022, and had been partial lifted before that as well, so 2022 should be seen as a normal year. The figures taken from the graph in the earlier article I linked to show, in 2018 (pre Covid) peak diesel demand was 2742 million litres in Nov 2018 and just 1389 million litres for petrol. Now very interestingly, in October 2022 diesel was exactly the same at 2742 million litres and petrol was at 1423 million litres. A little more digging also produced that petrol engines also produce particle matter, the same as diesel but was never ever taken into account, instead all the blame has wrongly dumped at the feet of the diesel engine. It was not until the Euro 5 standard was produced that PM was actually quoted for petrol, at just 0.005gm/km for both fuels and will be the same in the Euro 6 standard and if you look at the following article produced by the RAC, you can discover this there, so the real truth is that the modern ICE vehicle really is pretty clean in its own right. Euro 1 to Euro 7 – Vehicle Emissions Standards | RAC Drive It all makes one stop and ponder if there are not other forces at play here with the push towards electric, the phasing out of cash and going to a digital based currency system, the massive growth of digital cameras for the various LE zones, collection of parking charges and tolls are now nearly all backed up by ANPR cameras, and the forth coming digital ID app on your phone and or a digital card, and of course, electric vehicles have to be plugged in to get charged, so they can also report that fact to the authorities, reporting the amount of energy being put into them and also of course a means of reporting back where and when you were driving the vehicle along with the relevant GPS data so, they will know which roads you took and when PPM is introduced (when, not if) they can automatically deduct the relevant amount direct from your bank account. Online sales platforms are reporting back on the amount of income you generate that way to ensure that you do not get away without paying income tax on it. To think that many folk were actively poking fun at many of the YouTubers who saw all of this coming a long time ago and were brace enough to put their heads above the parapet and report it to us.

Hmm, interesting, but actually not true either, according to Volume of petrol and diesel consumed in the UK by month. The figures show that the amount of petrol being used in June this year was up by 15% over June 2022, and diesel was up by 1.4% as the graph of fuel consumed in the UK by month and year in the article shows. What is also true is that there is a slight drop in diesel now, but that is actually compensated for by the increase in petrol being consumed, and I think that the real reason for that is the growth of hybrids, which are predominantly petrol engines. Also a while I said that as engineers come up with more ways to further increase the yield of energy and efficiency of fossil fuels that they would get progressively cleaner in emissions. This is happening at an alarming rate, and from the introduction of the Euro 1 standard to the Euro 6, diesel particulates have actually fallen by some 96% and the same is also true for Carbon Monoxide, so ICE vehicles of the modern era are far better and cleaner with their tailpipe emissions, so is the air quality in the UK as a direct result. Spending a little time looking at the air quality map will show that it is the poorest countries of the world that are the culprits, as their vehicle standards are far below what they should be. Diesel sulfur content impacts Air Pollution in World: Real-time Air Quality Index Visual Map

This video is full of some very eye opening facts and figures and is well worth a watch and a listen. This is about a electric fire engine, which cost way more than a diesel one and in the 2.2 years that it has been in service, it has failed to be in a servicable status for 87% of the time, so it could only be be relied upon to be able to contribute to saving property and lifes for 17% of its life. Just better hope and pray that your house etc and that any people/animals are not at risk of snuffing it. It also claims that since Euro 1 to Euro 5 diesel engines, engineering has actually reduced the level of particulates emitted from their exhaust systems by 96% and with every new engine standard stands to be even further reduced. Below are the various links reffered to in the video and are also lited on the data attached to the Video on YouTube, the last one os which does not want to load in the UK, so I suspect that is is geofenced. Canberra's issue-plagued $1.6 million hybrid electric fire truck is out of action again - ABC News Report No. 4 2023 - Procurement of a hybrid electric fire truck Both of Canberra's 'green' fire trucks off the road for repairs | Region Canberra https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbENfVVhKOUJNNnVhRFIybTJhT0JIYjBFdUxjUXxBQ3Jtc0ttQms1bWQ5dGdIYl9oQkp3UVR3djB2MWl4RkRzeHRmYTB6ckFKVUFxTmlLYmdYcmN6ZE9CWjI3SENkcmxUMDZ5blVoRDhaQzE2Ulh2dXI3VHh2aUhkNjhTd0RfX25CR0dTZERybEtqYzgwak9MZmRWQQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fcitynews.com.au%2F2023%2Fhybrid-fire-truck-under-the-auditors-pump%2F&v=YPNAdDlU98w

I just saw this rather heart-warming video of a Tesla battery being repaired, and this is what we need to have more of being done in the world. One thing though worthy of note is that for of those that claim a BEV is far less complicated than an ICE engine really need to cease making that claim, as here you can clearly see the thousands of cells that make up a battery pack. A pack is made from loads of battery modules, each module has hundreds of cells and all the complicated cooling / heating to keep the cells at the optimum temperature. Add to that all the complicated BMS required for each module and all the connections in each module etc, any of these is a potential problem and can seriously ruin your day just the same as a mechanical problem with a combustion engine/transmission.

@pinkpanther it's a shame that the Avro Vulcan wasn't able to be used, love that plane.

All kinds antennaes and sensors for sniffing out radar and comms frequencies etc for military purposes, ie., jamming them etc.

I did as well, it was rammed so I was unable to get to the fence to grab any photos. Did you also go to Waddington for the Cobra Warrior exercise?

That is the same as any business that I've ever been involved with, they all have an annual sales target, hence they always quote Q1, Q2 etc when having sales meetings and the annual sales conference. Then they also have the monthly sales targets and at the end of each month, if there is a shortfall then they have all done a mini promotion, an extra bit of discount, or a prize draw but to enter the customer has to do a certain purchase level. Then if at the end of a quarter if it looks like they will miss it, they normally come out with an enhanced offer and leave the real biggie for the year-end push, where not only does the customer manage to grab a real bargain, but the top sales person often got to have an all expenses paid 3 week cruise on some holiday cruise ship. This always annoyed the hell out of me as when they did that, it meant the for the following year you were between a rock and hard place as the customers were already stocked upto the gunalls with product and they were desperately trying to shift it off their shelves before their payment became due.

That all goes without saying of course, hence what I was saying about the need to hit the monthly sales targets inorder to remain in business, for example how often do you drive along a road, such as new stretch of the A14 around Huntingdon and notice all the direlect filling stations, diners etc which have had their passing trade taken away by the new road. There is simply no way of getting to those stations and diners anymore as the road has been closed off. A good business deal is one where both parties get a something out of it and customers will come back again for more of the same next time they want a new car, that will not happen if the customer feels ripped off, or the business does not retain enough margin to survive, they simply will not be there when the customer wants a new car. That is business 101.

Yes, of course they are saying that we need battery repair infrastructure, because it is the battery side of things that is causing so many BEV's to be written off and thus keep the relative cost of insurance on BEV's that much higher than it is the equivelant ICE vehicle., which is precisly what the video and the article is all about, it is not about ICE cars is it. Body work on both types of cars is just body work, metal or plastic panels, that is fairly easy to repair to both types of cars, includeing Hybrids, REX, and PHEVs, engines can also be repaired with relative ease but the batteries currently not possible. Yes there maybe one a few places around that can do that, but they cannot cover the entire country and do it in a timely manner to prevent nasty incidents and also get the customers car back on the road in a short period of time, unlike an ICE car, simple facts. I never take the title as being that entire truth, shame on you if you expect the title of anything to be 1000% reflective of the actual meat and gravey of the content, where have you been all of your life, surely you don't walk around with your head in bucket or something similar so that you cannot see this happening everywhere you look. If they don't make the statement grab your attention, then they are not going to anywhere are they? This does not matter if it is advertising for a new car, beer, food item tool whatever, news item etc, they have to peak your interest first. Jeez, give me strength...😒

So now you are claiming that the insurance sector does not rely on the figures produced by Thatcham Research, I suggest that you visit the Thatcham website to confirm that, also confirm with your insurer if that is the case or not. Their data applies equally to both ICE and EV cars, so no I'm NOT spreading anti-EV social media posts cherry-picking 3rd hand information, but actual factual information. Like it or not all cars can be involved in accidents and need repairs to be carried out to wherever possible restore them to roadworthy condition or, be written off if the cost of repair will almost be the same value as the car itself before the accident happened. This is NOT an anti EV post as you always make them out to be, open your mind, look at the information given, something that you once accussed me off was not providing the supportive documention, and now it seems when I do, you are still willing to disagree with it, and always in a personal manner rather than in a constructive fashion by providing counter arguments from a unbiased soruce, which Thatcham Research is, it assesses and carries out crash tests and repairs on all types of cars, ICE, Hybrids, REX, PHEVs and BEVs and its information is the industry standard, at least for the UK insurance and also the UK car repairers who have to base their esitimates on something rather than plucking figures out of thin air 😮

Nope, that rule applies to just about every sales organization going where they will have an annual target which is broken into monthly, seasonally adjusted targets, which are based on previous historic data, and in the car industry, that will be broken down into monthly target/budgets which are required to bring in cash flow to meet wages and expenses for the month. Then there are the two new registration months, which will be the biggest targets and the best opportunity to hit the budget. Then will be the mad scramble at the end of the year if they need more sales to hit that 28% quota figure. This I know as I have been directly involved in technical sales for over 40 years, and heads will roll if those targets/budgets are not forthcoming.

@lol-lol even with that "Blue Light" type of discount, if cars are flying out of the showroom as is being claimed by so many of the EV sites, channels, then discounts are not required at all, as if you do not buy the car, there is a high chance that the next person will. Discounts are only normally offered, as you said, if they need to hit a target for the month, etc, and that is why it is usually good to buy near the month's end. If that is the case, then any discount could well be quite considerable and your purchase could well be a difference maker for their sales quota.

That strongly suggests that you never watched the video or if you did, never paid attention to it. He is British, living in Australia and he was actually quoting from a report from Thatcham, a British company working for the British insurance companies. So yes it was 100% about the UK and I think that if you watch it on YT you can find that he has attached the link to the Thatcham document. Also the point he was making about tax payers money was referring to brand new cars, not used cars, but the insurance will affect both. So many of you dismiss YTubers as not being worthy of anything🙄, which is utter rubbish; they can and often do disclose what the pro EV sites, authorities, and MSM will not tell you because it goes against the narrative. Some claim I have a closed mind, which is once again utter guff. I just like to check for myself rather than just following the narrative, like the rats that followed the pied piper of Hamlin. To save you looking for the info, it is here you will notice that the second line of the article clearly states the UK, so it is 100% a UK article and report, not Australian, as you claim. Inability to repair EV batteries could cause insurance to spike | Autocar Research - Thatcham Research It is a British research centre, based at Colthrop Way, Thatcham, Berkshire, RG19 4NR. They conduct all kinds of crash tests and testing of all kinds of automotive engineering aspects, and shares its findings with insurance companies, governments, manufacturers, and repairers to assist in the design, safety, risk assessment, and repair techniques

Do you have or know anyone who has one of these cars Citroën C3, ë-C3, C3 Aircross and ë-C3 Aircross, if so are you or they aware of the Citroën No Drive order for these cars due to the pedal box being incorrect and could cause loss of brakes. Citroen issues no-drive notice for four models over brake worries

Now the UK insurance industry it seems is putting the boot in.