With the recent release of the 50D and 5DII I have been reading people winging about the number of AF points on thse machines. So my question is, how many points do you actually use? At least most of the time.

I only use the centre one as I reframe the shot afterwards, occasionally I have tried using exposure lock and then centre point AF to try to correctly expose the shot too. But I am slightly confused by the additional AF points. I realise that many 1D owners use the 9 central points quite often, but I find the AF point may not be where I want to focus and if I am using a large aperture the shot may well be out of focus at the intended point of interest. So what use are they to the keen snapper? They can be useful for Tennis etc I guess, but I still prefer to grab a centre point first. Am I wasting a good opportunity to improve the IQ of my shots?

I generally use just one unless it's a landscape/wide type shot with a big depth of field for the same reasons you state. I shoot in low light, wide open at 50-200mm for most of my day-to-day work shots so I'd rather choose an AF point and use that for focus than risk the camera guessing from the lot.

A lot has been posted about the new Nikons having 50 Trillion AF points, so I assume that must be a use for them (I am happy with my 9 and they have improved the sensitivity of them as they are cross type sensors). Certainly guys with the Big guns D3 and 1Ds seem to use the centre 9 or so on occasions, so presumably there is a reason for all of them……unless….and I don’t want to sound a sceptic……………it is a bit of a marketing ploy. More Megapixels with your tea Vicar?

The New 50D and 5DII look wonderful. I have seen some of the silly High ISO shots knocking about on the web from these 2 and they are amazing especially the 5D.

My mate was raving on about the 5D the other day as it supports HD video capture and how the front line photographers will be able to include video as well.

Plenty of pennies though.

[EDIT] Sorry OT I know.

My mate was raving on about the 5D the other day as it supports HD video capture and how the front line photographers will be able to include video as well.

Plenty of pennies though.

[EDIT] Sorry OT I know.

Not really that OT imho. The 5D can be used as a very high quality HD camera (with mono sound) and the AF is something that professional cameras don’t have. I am guessing that people who shoot wedding Videos and School concerts may find this camera a real boon. How often do you see people pulling focus on semi-professional video shoots, this camera would either track the objects or snap them into focus. I seem to recall that the 40D’s live-view had a warning about over exposing the sensor to bright light for long periods however, so I guess the sensor on the 5D is very clever.

The lots of AF points are usefully when on continuous focus to keep something in focus be it a bird or a plane or a car. I use the closest subject AF selection when photographing people as I want them sharpest and let the background take care of itself. I don't usually have the person in the middle though. Pretty sure my manual had some explanations of the settings for continuous (dynamic) AF, fixed and closest subject. The closest subject can be annoying when doing landscapes but then I can select which of the AF points to use with the cursor thing.

A lot of people have the extra AF points (all the major brand DSLRs do) and like a lot of those people, I recompose the shot after catching the focus and exposure with the centre AF point and weighting (not always). The auto focus tracking on a Canon is called AF servo and AF Focus, the former detecting movement and switching from ‘one shot AF’ to tracking AF (Focus). I am guessing the dynamic AF you referred to is on a different manufacturers camera, although I feel confident it’s the same thing. There is a theoretical limit to the speed of Auto tracking though (I ‘m sure I read it somewhere) and I think on the Canon it’s about 45mph as the object tracks towards you.

My question though is as to why you would use multiple points? I can control DoF with my aperture and recompose a still shot after using the centre spot. I have read landscape photographers use the upper AF points to get some shots. But scrolling through the points seems as fiddly as reframing and using the AE lock and what on earth can be gained from having 50+ AF points over just 9? (Sales gimmick?)

Scuff, where are you? what am I doing wrong? Surely this facility is there for a reason?

The benefit regarding having more focus points gives for a more measured and accurate focus setting.

The number of AF points used varies depending on the type of shot. For landscape stuff with big DoF, I often have the full lot used, as it doesn't make much difference and provides a good "average".

For motorsport, fast action stuff, tend to use single point. But now I have the D700 which does fancy dynamic 3d tracking, tend to use that as it's proving very useful in conjunction with my lazy and poor manual skills :P

Often, even if you have 51 point autofocus, you can chose whether you use 51 points or less, so it is less scrolling across the frame to get to the one you use. But once you get the hang of it, it's pretty quick. Plus, if you want to focus on something really precise, you'd often have the time to do it. If you don't, then the dynamic stuff works well

Having gone from the 11 point AF to 51 point, I do notice a better precision in the AF, although I can't be sure whether that's due to the number of points, or just a more advanced focus and distance metering CPU, or a combination of both

I have heard that the Nikon has some sort of fancy 3D AF system. It sounds like it must work well (what ever it does:D). In theory the AF points of my camera or more sensitive than the previous model and the centre point even more so. I just don’t like that for General Purpose shots, the AF points may not be where I want them.

There is a thread here

Could someone explain tha advantage of multiple AF points PLEASE?...: Canon EOS 1000D / 450D - 300D Forum: Digital Photography Review

that discusses this very topic. Covers tripod work which is probably where I use the selection cursor the most to pick which AF point to use.

Will read it at lunchtime

There is a thread here

Could someone explain tha advantage of multiple AF points PLEASE?...: Canon EOS 1000D / 450D - 300D Forum: Digital Photography Review

that discusses this very topic. Covers tripod work which is probably where I use the selection cursor the most to pick which AF point to use.

Will read it at lunchtime

The article still doesn’t quite give me what I want thanks, but I can see that it is a pretty contentious issue. I don’t use a tripod very often, I prefer to be quick in and out and like to lean the lens on walls or sort of cross brace against drainpipes etc. But it’s the camera guessing the AF points I don’t like and wonder if there is a way to improve it’s hit rate for focusing on the bits of the shot that I want? I see many people just keep hitting the shutter button till the camera does indeed grab the part of the shot you want for AF(using multiple AF points), but it does seem slightly random.

It’s interesting that some consider the Geometry of recomposition to noticeably affect portraiture focus. I can see why the geometry of the reframe will alter the focal length that the AF grabbed, but if you are just moving a couple of degrees, surely to put the image out of focus on say the eyes, would mean a DoF of around an inch. I don’t think any of my lenses are that fast.

Thanks for the linky. I often use PotN, they are petty good for this kind of stuff. It's mostly Canon, but the talk is often on general photo issues.

But it’s the camera guessing the AF points I don’t like and wonder if there is a way to improve it’s hit rate for focusing on the bits of the shot that I want? I see many people just keep hitting the shutter button till the camera does indeed grab the part of the shot you want for AF(using multiple AF points), but it does seem slightly random.

Surely that's the point of Auto Focus? The camera guesses the area you wish to focus on and focusses on it? The more AF points you have the 'better' the camera can 'see' the frame and choose which area to focus on?

You select (read: limit) the AF points you want the camera to use and it cuts down on the guesswork a bit?

From what I gather the AF will most often grab the nearest object to the camera that's of a suitable size - assuming you're not taking the photograph of the background. The algorithms used for focussing mean it's the highest areas of contrast the camera assumes are 'edges' (meaning some lighting may fool it) so some crowded or moving targets make multi-point AF a bad idea.

I'd guess (and this is me guessing again) that the multiple pont AF helps when you have a deep 3d subject. If the centre spot sees the object 1m away and the spot to the right sees the same object 3m away, the camera can focus 2m away to endure the best focus for the whole object with narrower DOF? Whereas a focus-recompose would require you to spot focus somewhere on the middle of the object which may not be as easy/fast depending on the situation?

In summary, I still have no idea and am awaiting those with more knowledge...

As we mentioned the 5D a few days ago I found this 'little' video and thought you might enjoy it.

Without further ado: Reverie Vincent Laforet’s Blog

If you click the video it redirects you to a bigger version.

Pretty stunning.

Those extra focus points do help.....

The next two shots show how well the focus tracking worked. I had set up to use all 45 points with a delay so that anything crossing the path of the subject I was tracking, didn't take priority. So the posts etc from the course that the dogs were negotiating didn't make the focus jump away.

These 1 series cameras are very versatile but do need to be set up properly to get the best from them.

Jeez do these critters move fast..... the 2 shots shown here are taken at 1/10th sec apart an 10fps. The depth of field with the 300 f2.8 is so narrow that they would be out of focus if the camera hadn't tracked correctly.

Both taken at today Loseley park country fayre. Canon 1dMkIII - Canon 300mm f2.8 - 100iso - 1/800th sec @ f4.

Mort, I do use Auto Focus but haven’t got the confidence to use the Mutil-Point AF very often. It is clever how it usually grabs the nearest object but I prefer more control than than the Multi- AF version normally offers. I see Scuff has shown me the way as usual:D.

Thanks Hedge:thumbup:

Scuff I can easily see it works well for you. I wonder if my problem is

a) I am a bit rubbish

I don’t have confidence in my Multi-AF points

c) The 40D and myself are not in the same leagues as the mighty 1D for cleverness (see below).

One of the main differences between Pros and ppl like myself I think are, no matter how hard I prepare or think about what I want to achieve, I still am at heart a bit of a spray and pray type of snapper. Pros, as you have mentioned in other threads, tend to plan out exactly what they want and how they are going to achieve it. Taking the picture they want with the parameters all set up, whereas I start with good intention and then go all Gatling gun and panic a bit. Your shot from the Airshow was a great Demo of doing it right from the start. I have tried using multi AF points, but once I start to move the camera about the AF sometimes grabs the wrong point (I am guessing it gets confused with a high contrast point and a near low contrast point???) but your planning and clever AF system on the 1D seem to avoid this amateur error. As I said earlier though, perhaps it’s me.:(

Mort, I do use Auto Focus but haven’t got the confidence to use the Mutil-Point AF very often. It is clever how it usually grabs the nearest object but I prefer more control than than the Multi- AF version normally offers. I see Scuff has shown me the way as usual:D.

Thanks Hedge:thumbup:

Scuff I can easily see it works well for you. I wonder if my problem is

a) I am a bit rubbish

I don’t have confidence in my Multi-AF points

c) The 40D and myself are not in the same leagues as the mighty 1D for cleverness (see below).

One of the main differences between Pros and ppl like myself I think are, no matter how hard I prepare or think about what I want to achieve, I still am at heart a bit of a spray and pray type of snapper. Pros, as you have mentioned in other threads, tend to plan out exactly what they want and how they are going to achieve it. Taking the picture they want with the parameters all set up, whereas I start with good intention and then go all Gatling gun and panic a bit. Your shot from the Airshow was a great Demo of doing it right from the start. I have tried using multi AF points, but once I start to move the camera about the AF sometimes grabs the wrong point (I am guessing it gets confused with a high contrast point and a near low contrast point???) but your planning and clever AF system on the 1D seem to avoid this amateur error. As I said earlier though, perhaps it’s me.:(

You could make it easier for many occasions. Before the advent of AF, we used to use another method. Pre-focus at the point you want and release the shutter just as your subject comes in to it.

The images of the dogs above could just as easily be captured using the old fashioned method.

There is always a way, I do think we often rely on technology rather than the old human reflex and control of what you want, not what the camera wants.

Give it a try on some moving traffic. Learn how quickly your camera will take the shot when you release the shutter. I think you will be surprised what you can do without the technology.

You could make it easier for many occasions. Before the advent of AF, we used to use another method. Pre-focus at the point you want and release the shutter just as your subject comes in to it.

The images of the dogs above could just as easily be captured using the old fashioned method.

There is always a way, I do think we often rely on technology rather than the old human reflex and control of what you want, not what the camera wants.

Give it a try on some moving traffic. Learn how quickly your camera will take the shot when you release the shutter. I think you will be surprised what you can do without the technology.

I have tried the prefocus thing at Silverstone. I picked a bit of track that I could recognise easily in the viewfinder as well as being roughly where I wanted the shot to be taken and locked the focus. It worked well, except for the fact I didn’t have a long enough lens at the time.

Perhaps I was using the camera in a collection of modes that didn't quite work the way I thought it would have. Possibly something like AI servo with multi AF points and the whole shebang got confused (me also probably). I find it interesting that imagining the shot in advance is not enough, but you need to imagine the settings you will need too. It's quite a juggling act and seems a bit like pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps sometimes.

Great Dog shots btw:thumbup:

You hit the nail on the head. This photography lark is not as easy as the manufacturers would have you believe. (I love those ads that show you images supposedly taken with a compact, with wonderful soft OOF backgrounds - no way)!

There are still two parts to getting good shots. Using the kit to get the technicalities right, and then producing the image that will be different and stand out. The last bit is the hardest.

I have seen some technically brilliant shots, and some wonderfully imagined and captured shots that are not technically perfect. I am always drawn to the second type.

It would take too long to go into all of the settings that you can use on the 1 series. But suffice to say I have about 8 'cameras' saved on the memory cards so I can load the myriad of settings quickly for the type of job I have.

Even then, you still have to make the shot stand out!

Try not to get too frustrated, keep experimenting and you will find what works best for any particular subject - anything from full manual to full auto.

I've got some great 5x4 trannies - you cannot get any more manual than that. But they did teach me to get it right first time, so the planning could take hours or even days for that final 1/60th second.

Set yourself a subject or task (i'll suggest one if you like:eek:) plan what you want to do and don't stop until you get it absolutely right. Even the learning process is fun - I still really enjoy that.

On the subject of learning and fun, a friend of mine asked me to take a few snaps (I can’t really call them Pictures) of his Landrover project. And whilst I had the camera I tried the bounce card idea and spun the camera round at him and said ‘Say cheese’ ………well metaphorically. This is the result. It looks a little staged and then I took another quickly with the flash looking directly at him. There is definitely more reflection of the flash in his nose in the second picture. The pictures aren’t properly composed or even nicely candid, but I was surprised how ‘even’ the bounce card made his face look in the dark garage. I will remove the images after tonight as I don’t have his permission to put them up here, but as he is a very good and long standing friend I am sure he wont mind you telling me if I am wrong. I haven’t processed them either (well the first one was in RAW so it had a little conversion done) The colour balance especially in the second shot is a bit off.....sorry.

I also took a picture of him in the reflection of his Black Landover’s door panel and used the directionality of the flash to give him a bit more clout in his dirty door panel. It wasn’t totally successful but I think I can see how I can get a great picture this way. This flash malarkey is so clever and if I ever get to grips with it, I feel sure it will be a tremendous tool.

Edited 2 October, 200817 yr by Lady Elanore
The IMAGES have been removed till I get the subjects permission

Well done, you seen to be getting the hang of the flash stuff!!

When bouncing light all over the place, it can pick up all sorts of colour casts. So I just sort it out in post processing

Just a quick observation - as soon as I point a camera at a person (most times) it is automatically held in 'portrait' format. This could change if I was doing an environmental portrait though.

Try to get the chin in, even if it means losing the top of the head.

It would be good to see some 'story telling' images of your friend working with his Land Rover. Maybe some moody lighting with natural light and a touch of flash. Think about some unusual compositions.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks Graham. I did grab one of him portrait style but the colour balance looks awful and I haven’t processed it yet, but here it is. We were shooting mainly things of a techimcal nature so he could keep tabs on it. But using the more subtle bounce flash really works I think. I don’t have lots of hot spots and reflections. I will stick a few up. The RAWs look a bit sharper than these straight out of the box jpgs

I hope you don’t mind, but as I say I will remove the pictures of my friend shortly until I get his approval (now removed).

Edited 2 October, 200817 yr by Lady Elanore
The IMAGE has been removed till I get the Subjects permission

Yep that looks good, nice OOF background as well, I am sure he will be pleased with them.

I think even with PProd, they won’t have anything like the clout of the full frame monsters and L lenses, but I think it’s important to learn to walk before I can run. Maybe one day……

Here are a few of the technical shots. These are straight out of the camera, but the idea was to show bits of the work and some of the obstacles he has to overcome. There are plenty of wide shots and a few wacky odd ones too (I will spare you all of those though). i would like to be more imaginative and artistic, but I am not sure how to achieve an accurate picture of a replacement part of a damaged panel and not only be faithful but also interesting or even arty at the same time.

A good selection there.....

The images convey what is intended without confusion.

The illustrative shots of the parts do not need to be 'arty' and conversely, the shot of the sockets works well with a bit of 'artiness' (newly invented word:))

How long were the pigeons sitting on the steering wheel

A good selection there.....

The images convey what is intended without confusion.

The illustrative shots of the parts do not need to be 'arty' and conversely, the shot of the sockets works well with a bit of 'artiness' (newly invented word:))

How long were the pigeons sitting on the steering wheel

My friend reckons about 20+ years, so they must not have eaten enough roughage by my estimation. I would be really grateful if you can think of any ideas how I can improve the quality both technically and emotionally (ie ‘artiness’) of the shots, as I will be taking some more in a few weeks time. I do have one or two of my friend with the bits, but none of him working on the project. I think I would have to stage these as he lives 150 miles away and timing isn’t easy.

Interestingly the gaiter in one of the shots that looks like it is made from leather........is actually made from leather!!!! I have seen the Hand book for this lightweight Landie and it tells you how to demolish the vehicle by shooting at it and blowing it up with a tank and grenade thingies!!!!