Bio Diesel use in Fabias...

[DJM]

HELP

We ware looking for a new used car to replace a decrepit astra.. Tax runs out end of month & it won't pass an MOT...

I run a 51 plate Octy 1.9Tdi on B100 (most of the time) & want to run the new car on it as well.

I get conflicting stories about whether I can run a fabia on it or not - one story says 'anything up to mid 2006' is OK, another says 'not in PD engines' (which all the fabs seem to have)... Another says not if it has a DPF...

Anyone in here using B100 - or can you check what your Handbook says - I suspect VAG have changed their story over time and may originally have said yes & then said no for the exact same model!!

I want a Vrs or 1.9Tdi, the wife wants a 1.4Tdi ho hum... (but not a 1.9 Sdi - 0-60 'eventually'!)

Anyone selling one in the York area?

Thanks

David

[Wardy]

Do a quick search on biofuel and the Fabia. Should be quite a bit of info on here about it already; I remember a fairly lengthy discussion thread taking place.

Steve

[Decron]

B100 will run fine in the VRS but it will be a biatch to start unless already warm, same with the 1.4 unles it has a dpf fitted in which case you should not use it. In the PD your not "supposed" to use it anything above the 10 or so % you find in all diesel as it has been linked to oil thinning, injector failure, filter failure and a few other things but I ran a VRS on 30%(Ish) WVO for 57k so I doubt proper b100 which is up to spec will cause it many issues though.

There are loads of threads on here as mentioned do a search on it and on my username. It should bring up quite a few threads.

[big_dave]

B100 will run fine in the VRS but it will be a biatch to start unless already warm

Mines the opposite. Starts not bad on bio between 50-70% but if you stop and let the engine cool a little it refuses to start. Starts rough on 100% and brought on my engine management light.

I have a fuel heater to aid thinning of the bio, which makes my car run nicely, I just need to find out how to get it to start once the engine is hot.

[_ZS_]

I have a fuel heater to aid thinning of the bio, which makes my car run nicely, I just need to find out how to get it to start once the engine is hot.

Easy-Start.

[Decron]

At last, someone who had the nuts to experiment!

[big_dave]

I tried using vagcom to disable the egr, which I thought had helped a little. I don't mind having to crank it a few times to start it. Would just be nice to get it to start first time, everytime.

£1 a litre for bio is a good reason to experiment in my book.

[Decron]

£1 a litre for bio is a good reason to experiment in my book.

Indeed especially if it's good spec stuff. My supply has currently dried up although I recently managed to get Veg oil for 89ppl which is good enough.

[DJM]

Thanks guys -

Hey that sounds like an excuse for a VRs!!

I thought all the fabs were PD's from intro?

The octy takes a few churns to start on a cold morning & lots of white smoke... I tend to do 2 preheat cycles which seems to help & sometimes remember to put the winterising agent in when I fill up!

DM

[DJM]

Duh having looked at all the threads now I'm now totally confused....

It seems that some manuals say B100 OK other say not a chance... even those that say not it will work OK in some & it's just skoda covering their a**e

What seems to be sure us that having a DPF will probably cause problems, but which models have one (someone said no furby I has a DPF so what date did the II come out?)

Decron seems to run PD engines on some proportion of Bio (or WVO?) but not necessarily 100%, big dave seems to use B100 or straight veg oil?

FWIW the octy is on 112K & has run B100 for probably 80K of those (trouble is the world and his dog have found my garage & they run out by the middle of the week...) Only problem is cold starts (but we haven't had a proper winter yet...) - But I know that isn't a PD engine...

Stuff the warranty - anything I buy will be out of warranty anyway - I just don't want to trash it in a major way! (Edit - I suppose the worst case is a new set of PDs/injectors, any idea what that will set me back? Fitted?)

Can anyone confirm if all the furbys are PD engines from intro or are some non-PD?

Tia

DM

Edited 27 September, 2008 by DJM

[tdirob]

Mines the opposite. Starts not bad on bio between 50-70% but if you stop and let the engine cool a little it refuses to start.

I had the same problem and since I couldn't find any solutions, I just run a lower % bio now. If you find any solutions though, I'd be very interested in them.

WVO?

waste veg oil

I've run my PD golf on biodiesel for a little while but I'm typically on using 25% ish bio due to the starting difficulties above.

[Decron]

Right.

WVO is recycled veg oil. It's been used and filtered (In some cases it will have a cetane booster to improve the burn and timing cycle) but it is at least twice a thick as the Bio and this will not run unless diluted to about 20-30% depending on the ambient temparature.

B100 is 100% Bio Diesel. If you thin this with mineral it becomes something else (For example Morrisons sell B30 which is 30%Bio and 70% mineral). It starts as WVO or even VO and goes through a process to make it more like mineral and is roughly (Maybe slightly thicker) the same viscosity at RT. B100 conforming to spec is supposed to be able to replace mineral 100% meaning you can use this in place however the PD 130 will have some issues with this including those mentioned above.

I ran mine on b100 for a while but found it a pain to start, but once started would run fine, others have had the opposite but the end result is it's not without issues running over regular mineral, I found b70 was about as much as could be used without it having a moan in warmer times with this needing to be reduced to b50 in the winter (I did not have a heat exchanger fitted). I had a euro 3 PD in mine meaning no EGR issues to deal with and the feedback is generally these run better on both. Euro 4 engines I have no direct experiance with. I also currently run a 80bhp 8v JTD on 30% WVO and this only moans if I put too much in because of the lift pump struggling to lift the thicker fuel from the tank. This also had the same issues on B100 but I have had no filter issues with this one.

IIRC all the diesel engines in the Furbies are PD's apart from the SDI. I am not sure if any of the later 1.4's are fitted with DPF's (I think that they were not in the UK). The injectors on the PD's are unit injectors meaning they will cost a fortune if they go wrong, however if the fuel is up to spec and your filter is sound then this shouldn't be an issue. Regardless of what the books tell you, a euro 3 will run fine without issues on B70 in the summer and fine on b50 in the winter. WVO as mentioned will go from 20-30%. The bottom line of what I am trying to say here is that you will have to find what works right for your car and your particular fuel. As long as you dont go mad from the off and try running at 100% WVO you will find a sweet spot that is good for your car and you.

It's your choice to do this, ther are things to go wrong and you have to weigh up the pros and cons. Running it too much can cause injector issues, filter issues, lift pump issues and a few others but it can mean you run a far more ecological fuel and save money. The worst failure I had in 57k of using various blends was I killed a few fuel filters. This is not carte blanche to go ahead and use whatever but it should give you guidence, they will run on it but you need to find what is right for your car.

Edited 28 September, 2008 by Decron
More info

[big_dave]

Just like the man says, you'll have to experiment to see what works for you. Start off with a little bio and increase it until you find any issues. Then cut it back and you'll have found a happy medium. My happy medium is 50% bio at the moment until I solve the hot start issue. The bio I buy is made by a little company in Glasgow who collect and recycle the waste veg oil. I've seen the equipment they use and would rather pay them £1 a litre rather than having to buy all the stuff and try making bio myself. I still might someday but that's another subject.

Good luck with running on an alternate fuel and I hope you get the results you are looking for.

[DJM]

Belated thanks guys - I now have an 04 plate 1.4Tdi BUT my Bio place has shut up shop grrr......

Still debating whether to go down the homebrew route - some nice processor designs on the veg oil forums (Graham Lamming designs) but would rather pay someone else to do the messing about as I have little enough time as it is! Still saving around 2k a year on fuel is worth doing!

Anyone know of a bio producer in York / Thirsk / Boroughbridge area?

Thanks

David

[Littlebull]

Ive got a VRS and I tried it once (in the middle of summer) but never again...

Cost me just under £200 to have it pumped out and cleaned out.

My car is remapped but that shouldnt really make a difference it did not do any damage dont get me wrong but it just did not want to run on the stuff. It ran at low & high revs but when you were decelerating for some reason the engine just stalled. Not good if your in a busy area or on the motorway cos your power steering goes and abs etc...

I would recommend... DO NOT USE IT !!!

[big_dave]

Ive got a VRS and I tried it once (in the middle of summer) but never again...

Cost me just under £200 to have it pumped out and cleaned out.

My car is remapped but that shouldnt really make a difference it did not do any damage dont get me wrong but it just did not want to run on the stuff. It ran at low & high revs but when you were decelerating for some reason the engine just stalled. Not good if your in a busy area or on the motorway cos your power steering goes and abs etc...

I would recommend... DO NOT USE IT !!!

STOP, STOP, STOP. Your one bad experience does not make it an unusable fuel. You used 100% straight away? Did you change the fuel filter to stop the injectors getting gunged up. Do not tell people not to do something based solely on your own experience. The PD engine will run perfectly fine on on a 50/50 mix.