First a scrappage scheme, now an Electric Car Subsidy

[anewman]

Motorists will be offered subsidies of up to £5,000 to encourage them to buy electric and hybrid cars under plans announced by the government.

BBC NEWS | Business | Green car subsidy plan unveiled

Details seem quite sketchy at the moment. I'm surprised there's no mention of trading in your old polluting diesel or petrol model.

Will Skoda ever make an electric car? Apparently there did used to be an electric version of the Favorit floating around in small numbers - and a member here was undertaking a project to convert a Favorit to an electric car. See http://briskoda.net/project-journals/coming-soon-greatest-favorit-project-ever-probably/112799/

[Clunkclick]

Its Kinder-egg politics and feel-good Gordon again !

The words Government, distraction, all-aboard someone else's transatlantic bandwagon, unaffordable, low-take-up, and the work of the heirs and successors of Mr Mcbride come to mind, strangely.

All so feasible, when even farmers are having their subsidies reduced, in the current economic climate, and the government is not honouring pay deals to its own poorly paid workers. I'll believe it when I've got the 5,000 grubby gazumas in my hand.

Nick

['daiking']

Read the small print. The government is offering the moon on a stick because they don't think the cars will be in the showrooms until 2011.

There will be an election before then (or my name is Robert Mugabe) and I expect the IMF to decline that policy decision

[Mr Ree]

Something about this GM Voltz coming over here in a year or two on the national news last night. All excited they were.

Price circa 30k

Range 40 miles, and then recharged by the onboard petrol engine.

Brilliant idea or what? :confused:

Marginally better looking than the current two available options I suppose, but all a bit pointless imo.

[WW_VRS]

I'm sure as hell not gonna be in the UK any longer in 2011 to help fund Gordon's spending spree..

[Dr Zoidberg]

I believe there's due to be a version of the next Prius that you'll be able to recharge from the mains which would be eligible for this sort of grant.

I don't see a problem with this scheme either.

Ignoring any climate change issues, oil is a finite resource thats only going to get more expensive so we are going to need to change our car habits and this is as good a place to start as any.

[WW_VRS]

Oh this scheme seems more of a useful one then the scrapping one IMHO.

It means R&D will go into development of vehicles that meet the 'rules' to get the grant. Also, it means infrastructure will be put in place to make electric cars a more viable option.

The scrapping scheme to me makes less sense as I have voiced in the other thread on it, this scheme has definite strategic benefit and over time the people that replace their old(er) modern cars will pass them on to those who cannot afford a new vehicle and thus the environment will benefit a lot sooner.

Keeping the car industry alive in this manner is also better than just chucking money into a black hole, although that may still end up happening anyway I guess, and keep more suppliers afloat hopefully, thus saving some more jobs

['daiking']

oil is a finite resource

Where does 90%+ of that plugged in electricity come from?

[Dr Zoidberg]

Where does 90%+ of that plugged in electricity come from?

At the moment , a variety of fossil fuels (plety of coal that you can't put in your tank) as well as nuclear and renewable energy, but in the longer term we *have* to switch to non-fossil fuels for electricity or go back to living in the dark.

I'm reasonably confident that in the next 20-30 years we'll see nuclear fusion being used for power generation

[WW_VRS]

The key points are getting the infrastructure improved for electrical supply. Not only is this needed for 'electric cars' but in general, the UK is stretched rather a lot on that front (and is not alone in this).

Investment in those areas will be very worthwhile for the country as a whole, and hopefully ensure a reliable supply for the future. Alternative ways of generating electricity will become more economically viable if the demand is there, plus you get the economy of scale involved

[MoggyTech]

I'll wait for a Honda Clarity thank you. Electric cars are about as green as a turd.

['daiking']

If we're going to the trouble of making massive electricity generating infrastructure investments then electric and to a certain extent hydrogen powered cars are not the solution :rotz:

Why are we propping up failing car companies with failed ideas?

[Dr Zoidberg]

If we're going to the trouble of making massive electricity generating infrastructure investments then electric and to a certain extent hydrogen powered cars are not the solution :rotz:

Why are we propping up failing car companies with failed ideas?

So what would you propose instead?

['daiking']

So what would you propose instead?

I've brought it up a few times now.

If you go to the trouble of producing all this leccy then crack hydrogen from sea water, use it with CO2 to synthesise hydrocarbon fuel for existing engine tech. You can use the same cars, the same fuel distribution network and good for governments as its the same tax revenue collection method.

although I believe a true solution will be the re-invention of personal transport not this compromise proposed at every corner.

[WW_VRS]

I don't know how cost-effective that solution would be as compared to the alternatives, but definitely if it is/could be, then I would agree this should be looked at too.

The only thing is, wouldn't the HC fuel cause CO2 again?

[m17rkj]

plug in electric cars suit a small minority of people who have garages where they can plug them in. as most people in central London struggle to park in their own street who are electric cars going to benefit other than companies who make extension leads? :confused:

IMHO electric car technology has a long way to go before the average joe is gonna take them seriously as a viable alternative to petrol/diesel.

Mark

[WW_VRS]

Totally true - more likely hybrid technology will be used for quite some time.

The idea of making 'something' that charges the battery system and use electrical power to actually provide propulsion and all the other stuff, apart from the losses of twin energy conversion, is probably a reasonably good idea. A fuel cell, small petrol or derv engine, solar and/or charging station of some kind could all potentially be used in that context.

I have a feeling different solutions will be tried out and something interesting/decent will eventually come out of it

[Dragonrider]

If you burn HC fuel you always get water and CO2. If as suggested earlier you synthesise the CO2 with Hydrogen to produce the fuel to match existing tech you waste even more energy, so why not use plain old hydrogen and a fuel cell as demonstrated by the new Honda.

['daiking']

If you burn HC fuel you always get water and CO2. If as suggested earlier you synthesise the CO2 with Hydrogen to produce the fuel to match existing tech you waste even more energy, so why not use plain old hydrogen and a fuel cell as demonstrated by the new Honda.

As opposed to the waste of energy to replace ICE vehicles with fuel cell vehicles?

['daiking']

I don't know how cost-effective that solution would be as compared to the alternatives, but definitely if it is/could be, then I would agree this should be looked at too.

The only thing is, wouldn't the HC fuel cause CO2 again?

Dependent on your electricity generation, it could be carbon neutral

['daiking']

Found it

http://www.tyndall-podcasts.com/2009/james_turner.pdf

go get a nice cup of tea, a few biscuits and have a read...

[gadgetman]

Its Kinder-egg politics and feel-good Gordon again !

The words Government, distraction, all-aboard someone else's transatlantic bandwagon, unaffordable, low-take-up, and the work of the heirs and successors of Mr Mcbride come to mind, strangely.

All so feasible, when even farmers are having their subsidies reduced, in the current economic climate, and the government is not honouring pay deals to its own poorly paid workers. I'll believe it when I've got the 5,000 grubby gazumas in my hand.

Nick

Yawn,

And please tell us what cameron would do? Ah yes, tax the working class so the toffs can afford their chelsea tractors for the mrs to ferry their 1 under 4year old kid to school in

Hybrids, yup I get that. But Electricity will produce more Co2 than your saving, so the green element is BS.

Then there's the cost per mile. Yes you can charge your car for 20p, overnight (takes that long currently) but thats before who ever's in charge creates policy that charge points be seperately metered, and charged in line with petrol.

The main question is WHY we lag so far behind, when during tory rule the rest of eurpoe and asia adopted green policies and recycling ethos. :rotz:

[anewman]

And please tell us what cameron would do? Ah yes, tax the working class so the toffs can afford their chelsea tractors for the mrs to ferry their 1 under 4year old kid to school in

Sounds strikingly like Labour policy Inequality between rich and poor has probably never been greater than it is now.

[gadgetman]

Sounds strikingly like Labour policy Inequality between rich and poor has probably never been greater than it is now.

Yup. All as bad as each other.

At least the Lib Dems are open about screwing you over! The real choice has to be MRLP though

['daiking']

Read the small print. The government is offering the moon on a stick because they don't think the cars will be in the showrooms until 2011.

Plan to increase popularity of electric cars stalls over subsidy snag

No electric car that is available now, or for at least the next two years, will qualify for government grants of up to £5,000 announced yesterday.

Even the handful of concept cars currently being tested may be ineligible because ministers insist that they will only subsidise cars with “mass market appeal”, in terms of range and speed.

The RAC Foundation questioned the effectiveness of the grants and said there could be greater environmental benefits from encouraging more efficient petrol and diesel engines. A spokesman said: “Green initiatives should not be introduced for the sake of grabbing headlines.”