Misfires then Dies - 5 breakdowns since Jan!

[PGuk]

I'll try and keep this short and to the point - I tend to ramble on here!

5 breakdowns and 3 tows now. 1.2 HTP Fabia Sport 2006, 22000 miles.

Engines goes around 1200 miles between breakdowns but randomly mis-fires and rough idles (1 in 3 times i drive it) and has done since January.

When it breaksdown the car starts to misfire, maybe once every 5 miles (more often if going up a hill), then sudden increase infrequency - engine light comes on, either all power is lost (i.e engine stops and rev counter drops to zero) or car has enough power to just limp to the road side.

Summary of actual breakdowns (engine has intermittant rough idle and mis-fires almost all the time):

1st time: Engine light came on after leaving motorway, heavy misfire, loss of power - car restarted after 2 hours (RAC), no fault codes.

2nd time: Misfired heavily on motorway, engine light came on and all the car started shaking! Fault code - random misfire cylinder 3 - new ignition coil.

3rd time: (1000miles later) - Misfire then engine totalled stopped at 70mph on M1. No fault code available, computer wouldn't connect towed to a skoda garage - 3 new igniton coils.

4th time: heavy misfiring, almost total loss of power on M6. Coasted to services (1/4 mile downhill) then switched off , restarted 15 mins later and left at dealer for a week - no fault codes logged - car returned

At 3rd Year Service: I reported it was misfiring. Fault codes: Random misfire cyl no.1 + loss of compression on cylinder 1: was given new Cylinder head, + gasket + valves. (Was told it was likely to be a "valve seating issue" - which is in a Skoda technical bulletin (?) )

5th time: (4 days after cylinder head fitted !): Misfiring, engine light, loss of power on M6 - towed back to the dealer (random misfire cylinder no.3).

The last Skoda technican from Skoda Assist (not an RAC patrol) was 100% sure it was the injectors (as there was an oily burning smell and he'd replaced a lot on Polo and A2 1.2s with the same symptoms), but the garage said it would be the coils or spark plugs AGAIN.

The car is obviously undriveable at distances over about 10 miles and has been since about January! 1 in 5 times I go on the motorway with it all hell breaks loose - even thouigh I'm told its safe to drive.

Does anyone have a clue what's going on? The car is now 1 day out of warranty and I'm being told (4 days after the cylinder head + valves were changed) that its an unrelated fault and its just a COINCIDENCE it does the same thing every time.

Any suggestions/help greatly appreciated. I'm curious to know what you all think. Am I correct in thinking this should have been fixed long ago under warranty since I've been taking it back since January for the same fault.

Thanks!

[BulletRob]

Simplistic answer I know, but get rid...... future doesn't bode well without a warranty.

[Jigger72]

If you had it from new I would be demanding a new car, or at the very least, a courtesy car for the time it takes Skoda to sort it out properly. It can't be coincidence, they just haven't found and fixed the actual problem.

Don't let them fob you off, it sounds horrendous. I would be livid it if it was happening to me.

Good luck

[Kablam]

kick off, call their bluff and get it fixed. Surely as the problem was reported under warranty and clearly hasn't been fixed their arguments are all hot air.

[PGuk]

kick off, call their bluff and get it fixed. Surely as the problem was reported under warranty and clearly hasn't been fixed their arguments are all hot air.

The garage are saying that the misfire in cylinder number 3 now is unrelated to the misfire in cylinder number 1 it had 4 days ago. they're saying its in a different cylinder (so its just coincidence) even though is the exact same symptoms and the entire cylinder head was changed.

They're also saying that despite me having the RAC recovery sheet with the fault code recorded in cylinder number 3 back in January, the fact that the ignition coil was replaced at the roadside and I only took the car in to have it swapped for VAG genuine part (as per warranty), then that doesn't count as a recurring fault in cylinder 3 - as they personally didn't record the fault (even though they gave me a new coil!).

Edited 29 July, 2009 by PGuk

[zaragon]

you need to look at the Sale of goods act as this car is " not fit for purpose"

as you reported the "faults" and they havent been rectified to the standard that a "reasonable person " would expect as a modern car should not have these problems ,then you have a legal basis to claim damages , also your time spent of waiting for it to get fixed is worth money , eg £50 per hour for waiting by the road side for them to fix the problem again.

If it was me , I would be contacting the local trading standards though its very long winded ,and far easier to issue a statement of intent letter ( if it isnt fixed correctly etc ) and send it / take it to the garage / supplier of the vehicle

start here >> Is it fit for purpose | Consumer Information and here >

Consumer rights : Directgov - Government, citizens and rights

good luck

oh and here incase they dont sort it >> Making a Claim

[PGuk]

you need to look at the Sale of goods act as this car is " not fit for purpose"

as you reported the "faults" and they havent been rectified to the standard that a "reasonable person " would expect as a modern car should not have these problems ,then you have a legal basis to claim damages , also your time spent of waiting for it to get fixed is worth money , eg £50 per hour for waiting by the road side for them to fix the problem again.

If it was me , I would be contacting the local trading standards though its very long winded ,and far easier to issue a statement of intent letter ( if it isnt fixed correctly etc ) and send it / take it to the garage / supplier of the vehicle

start here >> Is it fit for purpose | Consumer Information and here >

Consumer rights : Directgov - Government, citizens and rights

good luck

oh and here incase they dont sort it >> Making a Claim

It was one year old when i bought it and was fine for 12 months up until the 2nd year service. The day after the service I started having problems with it not starting. After 2 months of going back and having new battery and starter motor etc, it finally started first time. 3 weeks after this, the mis-fire problem began. it was fine for a year until the 2nd year service( did they disturb something - I don't know), so I'm not sure if the sale of goods act applies - although I was still under warranty.

[zaragon]

this is going to be a problem to solve ,as consumer law is one mega big minefield so you need to look at all the pages ,as from here , I would say that the garage has " intoduced" a fault by whatever they did at the service , so that falls under consumer law , which is part of the sale of goods act :confused:

you identified the problem as starting ( no pun intended ! ) " the day after the service " ;-

Provisions relating to the United Kingdom

1 Implied term about quality

(1) In section 14 of the [1979 c. 54.] Sale of Goods Act 1979 (implied terms about quality or fitness) for subsection (2) there is substituted—

“(2) Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.

(2A) For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

(2B) For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—

(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplie

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vehicle repairs and servicing

(for England, Wales and Northern Ireland)

When you take your car to a garage for servicing or repair, you are making a legally binding contract with the garage owner and the laws you can look to for protection are the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 and the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002. These laws give you statutory rights and you are entitled to expect that the work be carried out with reasonable care and skill, within a reasonable time at a reasonable charge. If a part is replaced, the new part should be of satisfactory quality, fit for the purpose and as described.

If a fault has not been repaired properly, you should allow the garage the chance to rectify it. If they fail to do so, you may be entitled to get the work done elsewhere and recover the cost from the garage. If the garage fits a part, which turns out to be faulty, and it has not been fitted very long, you may be entitled to a refund, or you could ask for the part to be replaced. If you pay for the servicing or repairs by credit card, and if the work costs more than £100, you are protected by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which makes the credit card company equally liable.

Consumer Direct

you need to talk to TS ,because eventually youll run out of time to claim anything ,and the problem will be yours to solve

eg if the car misfires ,this will leave unburnt fuel in the exhaust ,which will damage the CAT converter & Lamba sensor etc

[PGuk]

Thanks for all the advice so far!

Does anyone have any idea what the mechanical cause of the underlying fault might be?

Its obviously not the cylinder head, gasket, ignition coils, valves or the spark plugs - they've all been changed.

Edited 30 July, 2009 by PGuk

[MoggyTech]

The fact that sometimes fault codes are logged, and at other times no codes, would suggest there is more than one fault. I would find a garage who can drive the car with logging capable FCR connected to try and get a snapshot of the problem.

Intermittent faults can be a nightmare to track down, but if you log live data under fault conditions, it makes it easier to track the faulty part down.

[PGuk]

Ok a little update and more problems.

I have the car back from the dealers, they replaced all three fuel injectors (and stood the cost!) and it seems to have improved.

However, the car has a sensation similar to a mis-fire, although not quite the same as before. I'm having difficulty narrowing it down because there's still a little bit of a kick every now and again when its just idling on the drive.

Basically, when the speed gets over 35mph it feels a bit shaky at the front end - so at first i thought it was mis-firing again. On an empty dual carriageway I took it up to 70mph and put the clutch in and coasted (I checked it was safe to do so first). The engine rpm dropped to about 800rpm (which is the normal idle rpm) but to my surprise the sensation continued (and its normally not detectable at this rpm)! As my speed decreased the amplitude of the vibrations dropped. Its as if its picking up every little bump in the road. Additionally it was found at MOT that my front tires are about 2mm on the inside edge and 5mm on the outside. Do you think this is some sort of issue with the suspension. Looking through the forum I keep finding refences to replacing the suspension bushes, but the symptoms don't seem to match.

Does anyone have any thoughts only I'm now at my wits end with the car... I just want to drive a normal car without some daily mechanical incident!!

Thanks in advance.

[MoggyTech]

Very weird. Could be anything from suspension bushes, to a slightly bent drive shaft. Think I would have sold it by now.

[PGuk]

Well if I could afford to sell it at the moment I would in a heartbeat, but unfortunately financial circumstances prevent it.

Its now mis-firing again. Complete loss of power is occurring almost daily. It will be going along at 40 and then all of a sudden its as if the brakes have been applied. There's definitely some sort of intermittent mechanical resistance. The only way to prevent the engine stopping (from experience - the engine WILL just stop - even at 70mph) is to put the clutch in very very rapidly, then drop a gear and pull the clutch out again when its slowed down.

4th gear is now totally impossible at anything below 40. When I have to go out in in the car I'm driving it in 2nd most of the time. It sounds like all 3 cylinders are firing but the power level suggests otherwise.

In second gear when you need to accelerate harshly i.e. at a junction, you get power, then nothing for about a second, then you're thrown back in the seat as it catches again - seriously it throws you back with some force. No idea what that's about its almost like some belt or something is slipping - who knows.

Basically short of a meteor dropping from space and landing on it, I'm stuck with the ruddy thing.

On the plus side since January I've been walking and using the bus - its almost as if I don't own the car. Maybe they could use this in their advertising as an environmental benefit of ownership.