Youngster takes his test this week and we're currently 'bashing' all ten approved routes around Chester.

Some rather dodgy roads for him to negotiate however.

Couple of questions on rather grey areas that could affect the test result that i don't seem to be able to get a definative answer to. :confused:

You come across a cyclist approaching a pedestrian crossing with the usual zig zag 'no overtaking' lines.

Can you overtake it legally?

You are following a milk float/tractor/horse going 2 mph, and there is a solid 'no overtaking' white line in the center of the road. You can see sufficiently clearly that it it is safe to overtake, due to the extreme low speed of the moving vehicle/horsey, but can you legally overtake it?

You come to an extremelly busy 'T' jumction and are turning right. There is no end of moving traffic in sight....this does happen in Chester unfortuanetely, like many other cities. Would 'forcing' your way out be an instant fail on a test, due to you making other motorists brake or stop to allow you out, when the alternative is to sit there all day? :confused:

If anyone can think of other one off difficult scenarios that could suddenly pop up when driving in general, please ask and or answer the question.

I'm here to learn too, even after 40 years of driving.

1) You come across a cyclist approaching a pedestrian crossing with the usual zig zag 'no overtaking' lines.

Can you overtake it legally?

2) You are following a milk float/tractor/horse going 2 mph, and there is a solid 'no overtaking' white line in the center of the road. You can see sufficiently clearly that it it is safe to overtake, due to the extreme low speed of the moving vehicle/horsey, but can you legally overtake it?

3) You come to an extremelly busy 'T' jumction and are turning right. There is no end of moving traffic in sight....this does happen in Chester unfortuanetely, like many other cities. Would 'forcing' your way out be an instant fail on a test, due to you making other motorists brake or stop to allow you out, when the alternative is to sit there all day? :confused:

Here's the answer to 2.

129

Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.

So according to that you couldn't overtake a tractor or milkfloat as it doesn't match the criteria... but generally they'd be doing more than 10mph anyway.

For question 1. i'm not 100% on and the HC doesn't give a full description of when it's acceptable to overtake a road user approaching a ZC.

191

You MUST NOT park on a crossing or in the area covered by the zig-zag lines. You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing or the vehicle nearest the crossing which has stopped to give way to pedestrians.

I'd probaby use additional caution for a cyclist in case they decide to suddenly cut across on the ZC.

3) Obstructing traffic is a big no no I think. Don't know what the standpoint would be if a driver let you out of the junction. Hopefully someone else can clarify that.

Edited 4 October, 200916 yr by Schern

Hi, I'm a DSA ADI, and I passed all the examiners exams last year too (just waiting for a vacancy!)

some q's have been answered by the above poster...

You can pass a cyclist in the zigzags, but honestly would it really be ness? use caution, and maybe wait until you've passed the crossing... if it was a 40 mph dual carrigeway with a crossing,and loads of room where slowing would adversly affect the following traffic, then I'd pass, just use common sense, the no overtaking rule is a visibility issue, to overtake a car on approach, would be dangerous (and illegal) , as there would be a blind spot.

you can cross a solid white line if you are overtaking a cyclist or a vehical travelling less than 10 mph... (you can also enter a hatched area provided it is surrounded by a broken line, but NOT if its surrounded by a solid line...)

forcing your way out of a junction would deffo fail you, (NOTE: If you affect anyone on your test, vehical, cyclyst, pedestrian ect, and force them to take avoiding action you would fail.) this would include pulling into a gap in traffic and forcing another car to slow, provided they were travelling at, or below the speed limit. however if someone on the side of the road closest to you stopped and gave you space, in stop start traffic, then you could move halfway accross the road, and wait for a gap, or someone else letting you go from the other direction, but it would need to be them giving you the space, not you making it yourself...

hope this helps!

Youngster takes his test this week and we're currently 'bashing' all ten approved routes around Chester.

Some rather dodgy roads for him to negotiate however.

Couple of questions on rather grey areas that could affect the test result that i don't seem to be able to get a definative answer to. :confused:

You come across a cyclist approaching a pedestrian crossing with the usual zig zag 'no overtaking' lines.

Can you overtake it legally?

You are following a milk float/tractor/horse going 2 mph, and there is a solid 'no overtaking' white line in the center of the road. You can see sufficiently clearly that it it is safe to overtake, due to the extreme low speed of the moving vehicle/horsey, but can you legally overtake it?

You come to an extremelly busy 'T' jumction and are turning right. There is no end of moving traffic in sight....this does happen in Chester unfortuanetely, like many other cities. Would 'forcing' your way out be an instant fail on a test, due to you making other motorists brake or stop to allow you out, when the alternative is to sit there all day? :confused:

If anyone can think of other one off difficult scenarios that could suddenly pop up when driving in general, please ask and or answer the question.

I'm here to learn too, even after 40 years of driving.

Hi Mr Ree

I am not a qualified person, but another thing to think about, taking you points as example, don't rush the test as long as you don't sit at the "t" junction for all the test just wait, and wait till you have passed the cyclist and the milk float till you do get chance.

As the test only last so long, you have more chance of a pass the less you have to do (if you see what I mean) !

Radiotwo

Double sided blade as you pointed out - you can't spend too long waiting at junctions, roundabouts (or drive at 20 in a 40) as it's seen as a bad thing (incompentance maybe?). But then as said, you can't jump on the power into the tiniest gap you see.

Hope sharkrider could answer this (something I wondered when I was learning and could be relevant to OP's question) if flashed out at a junction on a test, do you go, or not as it's improper use of lights on behalf of the other guy, but not going is holding up others. . .

Double sided blade as you pointed out - you can't spend too long waiting at junctions, roundabouts (or drive at 20 in a 40) as it's seen as a bad thing (incompentance maybe?). But then as said, you can't jump on the power into the tiniest gap you see.

Hope sharkrider could answer this (something I wondered when I was learning and could be relevant to OP's question) if flashed out at a junction on a test, do you go, or not as it's improper use of lights on behalf of the other guy, but not going is holding up others. . .

there are two boxes relating to this,

1: signal correctly (i.e. as you say, a flash of your lights is the same as your horn, to warn others of your presence) so you musn't flash anyone out, as it would be incorrect use of signals.

2: act correctly on other peoples signals: if someone else flashes you out, you can go, if thats what the other drivers intention was, to let you out, as this is what the country generaly beleives the signal means....

to put it in perspective though, the law is the law, and you will be marked that way... I had a Chinese pupil, who didn't know the English people, but knew the law very well... he was flashed out of a junction (I was sitting in on this test) and he didn't pull out, he was flashed again, and didn't pull out, then the other driver gave up and drove on, he then pulled out.... at the end of the test the examiner said "why didn't you pull out when that other driver was letting you out?" the pupil said "flashing headlights is to warn others of your presence, not to let you out, he had priority, I was behing the give way line..." the examiner said, correct, but he was obviously letting you out, so you should have gone, but as you followed the law correctly and didn't break any rules, i will pass you anyway..."

they have discresion... the end result the examiner has to decide is simple... " Am I going to let this person out on their own, and will they be safe?" Don't over analyse... just be safe

Cheers, was something I was wondering from a professional perspective as it all changes after you pass in that respect.

forcing your way out of a junction would deffo fail you, (NOTE: If you affect anyone on your test, vehical, cyclyst, pedestrian ect, and force them to take avoiding action you would fail.) this would include pulling into a gap in traffic and forcing another car to slow, provided they were travelling at, or below the speed limit. however if someone on the side of the road closest to you stopped and gave you space, in stop start traffic, then you could move halfway accross the road, and wait for a gap, or someone else letting you go from the other direction, but it would need to be them giving you the space, not you making it yourself...

hope this helps!

Thanks for the advice on these grey areas.

This afternoon, we did actually get stuck coming out of a side road that is on one of the test routes.

One of the busiest roads into Chester and we had to turn right into it.

Even though it was Sunday, it was extremely busy, and we had to wait approx 5 minutes before a suitable gap appeared in the traffic.

Just what the hell does the lad have to do if it's even busier than this on Thursday afternoon and no one lets him out? Sit there until the fuel runs out? :confused:

One of the 20mph speed limits caught him out btw. He admited he thought it was a 30 and didn't see the 20 sign.

He will next time!

4 routes practised, 6 to go. I'm more knackered than him!

Edited 4 October, 200916 yr by Mr Ree

let us know how it goes

(you can also enter a hatched area provided it is surrounded by a broken line, but NOT if its surrounded by a solid line...)

Thanks, I didn't know that!!

@Mr Ree - hope your lad passes OK

Yep, loads of people don't. Which is why I invariably get beeped/flashed at, when I sometimes overtake on a stretch of broken hatched area locally

It's just to keep traffic separated and as a 'visual' safety feature, nothing more

Steve

Sorry for deviating from the OP's original thread, but may be of some use..

An interesting one I'd completely forgotten is a broken white line in the direction of travel, where the gaps are longer than the painted lines, indicates the centre of the road and that there are no hazards specific to the design and layout of the road, ie no turnings, sharp bends ahead etc. A broken white line in which the gaps are shorter than the painted lines indicates an upcoming hazard, the proportion of white to black indicates the degree of hazard ie more white means more hazard...And these invariably turn into solid lines.

@Shark, correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds plausible.:confused:

Sorry for deviating from the OP's original thread, but may be of some use..

An interesting one I'd completely forgotten is a broken white line in the direction of travel, where the gaps are longer than the painted lines, indicates the centre of the road and that there are no hazards specific to the design and layout of the road, ie no turnings, sharp bends ahead etc. A broken white line in which the gaps are shorter than the painted lines indicates an upcoming hazard, the proportion of white to black indicates the degree of hazard ie more white means more hazard...And these invariably turn into solid lines.

You're right - an easy way of remembering is "the more white, the more sh1te" Normal dividers are called centre lines and the longer ones (with smaller gaps) are called hazard lines.

Another useful piece of information, if you're looking for an overtake, is that solid white lines tend to break on the crest of a hill or the apex of a corner

Chris

let us know how it goes

I will indeed Shark'.

I've passed on the relevant answers, especially the one the busy junction query.

I honestly believed that even pulling out when 'flashed' was a strict no no on the test, so minds have now been settled.

I'm going to be like an expectant father on Thursday afternoon, pacing up and down the car park and waiting to see this face of either great joy,or that familiar sullen and eyes down look.

Whatever, I'm as nervous as him, but I'm hiding it admirably and just talking positive to him, which is richly deserved tbh.

If he fails it won't be through lack of practice or enthusiasm, it'll be a freak unerving incident. He's now driven over 3000 miles in nearly 100 hours since July so the odds should be in his favour.

Took him out around the test routes tonight, and the only 'major' (imo) was letting the clutch out when he'd stopped without checking it was in neutral. Never a pleasant experience, but especially not in a Fabia vRS.

I will indeed Shark'.

I've passed on the relevant answers, especially the one the busy junction query.

I honestly believed that even pulling out when 'flashed' was a strict no no on the test, so minds have now been settled.

I'm going to be like an expectant father on Thursday afternoon, pacing up and down the car park and waiting to see this face of either great joy,or that familiar sullen and eyes down look.

Whatever, I'm as nervous as him, but I'm hiding it admirably and just talking positive to him, which is richly deserved tbh.

If he fails it won't be through lack of practice or enthusiasm, it'll be a freak unerving incident. He's now driven over 3000 miles in nearly 100 hours since July so the odds should be in his favour.

Took him out around the test routes tonight, and the only 'major' (imo) was letting the clutch out when he'd stopped without checking it was in neutral. Never a pleasant experience, but especially not in a Fabia vRS.

Nerves really are the biggest thing or they were for me. I failed my first test because I was worried about being seen as hesitant at a busy roundabout and went for a gap that was tighter than the examiner was comfortable with me going for. Passed the second time with 0 minors with the same examiner and she was like "What did I fail you for last time?!" Make sure you son knows he's ok to get comfortable in the car. I got really hot on my first test but didn't dare to open the window! Made sure I did on my second one!

Good advice Schem. I'll pass it on regarding having the window down a bit.

Told him to be very concious of breathing properly too. Too easy to hold your breath when you're stressed out.

Tell you something I've noticed (flamin' council cutbacks I suppose. ),

virtually obliterated white lines, especially for lanes on roundabouts., and if the road is wet or damp even, they become virtually invisible.

Doesn't make for an easier passage when there are 3 lanes to negotiate that's for sure.:rotz:

let us know how it goes

He failed. :thumbdwn:

The lad was extremely upset, and the instructor was bewildered.

Me? I'm downright bloody furious now tbqh, but we have to put this miserable episode down to experience, and move on.

He failed only on 'driving too cautiously and slowly' down a road in a housing estate. 20-25 mph apparently,when in the examiners opinion it was safe to do 30.

I had my son take me down the exact same route tonight, and the road concerned has cars parked on both sides, albeit probably more than this afternoon.

In all honesty, even though I wasn't in the car to witness EXACTLY what happened when the test was being conducted, I'm totally dumbfounded that anyone could be failed for driving with seemingly simple consideration towards other road users and pedestrians.

No point in protesting however, as that involves going to court, and would probably be thrown out anyway, but as the instructor said to me, he's never seen any of his pupils in eighteen years fail on such triviality.

New test date booked for 18/11

All the best drivers pass second time round:thumbup:

Mr Ree - like you been on the roads for about 40 years -

Makes me wonder if something my old dad used to believe in is practiced -that they have a quota to pass .In my case ,Id fail miserably driving down my road -lucky if I get above 10-15 ,cars parked both sides on pavement and kids ( more like toddlers ) playing behind the parked cars .Always wondered why the newly passed scream down this road at least on limit of 20 ( possibly more like 28/35) when visibility is virtually nil .

:iagree:

hee hee.

Statistically the majority do too iirc?

It's not the end of the world, and he gets the opportunity to continue driving the vRS a bit longer now then too!

Every cloud ey?

He failed. :thumbdwn:

The lad was extremely upset, and the instructor was bewildered.

Me? I'm downright bloody furious now tbqh, but we have to put this miserable episode down to experience, and move on.

He failed only on 'driving too cautiously and slowly' down a road in a housing estate. 20-25 mph apparently,when in the examiners opinion it was safe to do 30.

I had my son take me down the exact same route tonight, and the road concerned has cars parked on both sides, albeit probably more than this afternoon.

In all honesty, even though I wasn't in the car to witness EXACTLY what happened when the test was being conducted, I'm totally dumbfounded that anyone could be failed for driving with seemingly simple consideration towards other road users and pedestrians.

No point in protesting however, as that involves going to court, and would probably be thrown out anyway, but as the instructor said to me, he's never seen any of his pupils in eighteen years fail on such triviality.

New test date booked for 18/11

oh dear, this does sometimes happen, and can be infuriating, maybe he had passed alot of people that day alerady :confused:

And just out of interest anyone who has ever tried to have a decision challenged has lost :(

maybe hope for a different examiner next time.... I read about one court case, where a woman was asked to p/park , and behind the car to be used was a pub carpark entrance, the examiner said just treat it as if the kerb continued accross the entrance, trouble is the entrance and road were the same colour, no way to determine where the kerb "would" have been... she parked, he said she would have been on the pavement, she said, no way to tell where the pavement would be! that would seem open and shut in the pupils favor, but no, examiners decision was upheld.... its big brother you are facing!

Best of luck next time, there are always positives to take away, i.e. now he surely knows he can do it, that should give some confidence

All the best drivers pass second time round:thumbup:

Well indeed.

Youngster passed 2 weeks ago.

The examiner apparently asked if this was his first test ...(they alledgedly don't know ) and according to his instructor who was sitting in for the result, was seemingly staggered when he was told why he'd failed 6 weeks ago. His face was a picture apparently, and he simply shook his head in disbelief with his jaw dropped.

Obviously he didn't and wouldn't make any comments regarding his fellow examiner.

Anyhow, he's now on the road, doing his Pass Plus Xtra, and insured with Quinn Direct in his own right, TPF&T.

Would you believe he's allowed to drive ANY, yes ANY car, albeit only on that same level of cover with the owners permission.

Anyone got DB9 for him to try out? :no:

No commercials or 4WD though.

He drove me up to the Lake District at the weekend in the vRS, and even though you could say I'm biased, he drove impeccably for the duration which included a babtism of fire over the M6 Thelwall Viaduct in the heavy rain / HGV spray/ roadworks, and darkness.

I'm very proud of him for his serious considerate, caring, safe, skillful and sensible attitude shown so far with a huge desire to continue to learn and to strive for excellence in his new found skill.

IAM course and skid pan session are his for Christmas.

glad he passed, very nice to see you getting him some extra training, the pass + and skidpan training are worthwhile, wish all parents did the same!

That's good news. Nice to see you encouraging further training too.

Would you believe he's allowed to drive ANY, yes ANY car, albeit only on that same level of cover with the owners permission.

Anyone got DB9 for him to try out? :no:

No commercials or 4WD though.

So Aston is ok, Fiat Panda is not?