Hi,

Looking for some help or advice if possible. My 04 VRS recently had a service which included cam belt replacement (62k on the clock). The garage owner had problems getting the car to start after the service, plugged it in and it was reporting a fault with the cam sensor - it was basically cutting the engine as soon as it started. He replaced it, and then it started OK.

However now it starts very poorly when cold - might take 20 or 30 turns of the key to get it going in the morning. It starts fine when warm though.

I'm taking it back in to the garage but I'm not convinced the guy is particularly clued up (don't worry, won't be taking it there again!) so I want to go armed with 'possibles' as to what the problem might be. Is it likely to be connected to the cam sensor replacement, or could it be down to something else replaced at the time of the service? Prior to taking it in it would start first time every time but now it's reminding my of my old Austin Metro on a cold morning.

Any help / suggestions greatly appreciated...

The recent cold weather will have almost certainly killed the battery. I doubt it's anything to do with the sensor...

It turns over fine and seems to be charging OK - obviously after 20 or so attempts in the morning it gets progressively less enthusiastic....could it still be the batt.?

If it's the original battery, it'll be on its way out now anyway, probably. But it would struggle right from the first turn of the engine. If you're saying it's cranking OK to start with,though, then maybe it's a glowplug issue. You are waiting until the light on the dash goes out, right?

Yup...a couple of times when leaving it cranking for a long time (7 or 8 seconds maybe) the warning buzzer went off and the oil light flashed briefly. But generally everything is normal.

What apOgee said....

If it didnt start straight after the cambelt, and its still the same along with the cam sensor fault i would say its more than likely been timed up wrong

i agree with the above

i agree with the above

Me too!

The ECU monitors engine position with the crank and cam sensors, so if the timing is out, the values from the two sensors won't match and it will think that there is a fault with one of them.

Thanks for the help and advice, I will be suitably armed to go back to the garage and raise hell

Deffo timing is out

Ah, I misinterpreted what you meant by 'poor starting when cold' - I thought you meant ambient temperature, not engine temperature! Agree with the timing suggestions, in that case...

*BUMP*

OK I'm still having problems - the car is now at the garage and has been for two days. In the end it wouldn't start at all and they had to come and tow it. I've advised them that perhaps the timing is incorrectly set but got a bit of a frosty response from the garage owner...obviously thought I was telling him how to do his job.

They are getting 'a specialist' in to come and look at it tomorrow. Assuming this mystical 'specialist' knows what they're doing and the problem gets fixed I will get my car back and be happy. I'm not expecting to pay anything else for this because I've already shelled out £400 on the cambelt replacement and service and the garage themselves introduced this problem (before it went in for service it started first time every time).

HOWEVER, if the garage decide they do want to charge me for the extra time/work they've done, where do I stand with regards to refusing to pay? They've still got the keys to my car after all

HOWEVER, if the garage decide they do want to charge me for the extra time/work they've done, where do I stand with regards to refusing to pay? They've still got the keys to my car after all

I believe you'd have to pay "under protest", and then claim back their charges plus any reasonable consequential damages through the small claims court, under the Sales of Goods and Services Act (whilst they don't have to do it right, they must do it in line with accepted best practices).

don't say you are not paying before you get the car back

Final update to this saga - I now have the car back and it is running as normal.

The problem: the garage owner had bought a new set of timing adjustment tools and they were incorrectly calibrated, which was causing the timing to be set wrongly, and therefore the cam sensor would report a fault and the car wouldn't start.

So a big thanks to all the Briskodians who suggested timing being wrong - once again you were all completely right!

As a side note, the garage owner has sent a letter of apology for the inconvenience and offered a discount off the next service, so not a bad result their either. Not sure if I'll take it there again though!

Good result

I just popped into this thread to say it's almost certainly timed up incorrectly however Ally had already said it as had others.

As for timing tools being "incorrectly calibrated" I can't say that washes with me. Not sure how you can calibrate a pin and a pair of eyes Sounds like they marked the pulleys up and shoved a new belt on expecting that to work properly.

pointless post now it's been resolved.

Not really, I found that interesting

pointless post now it's been resolved.

Thankyou for your valued input.

Hello propellerhed, Did garage owner apologise to you for frosty look at you quoting a possible timing fault?I lay odds the answer is no.LOL Glad your all fixed up now, happy motoring.