Looking to purchase my first new Octavia Estate, could some one tell me the differences between the 1.9 TDI PD 105bhp and 1.6 TDI CR 105bhp DPF diesel engines? Have looked in technical specification both look the same, am I right in thinging that the 1.9 TDI PD 105bhp is being phased out by skoda? What is the performance like of the 1.6 TDI CR 105bhp DPF diesel engine, as I drive approx 100 miles a day on a and b roads?

Also would need the 1.6 TDI CR 105bhp DPF to pull a folding camping tent, which is under 600kgs will it be ok or do I need to look at the 2.0 TDI PD 140bhp.

Thanks for your help

The 1.6 CR and 1.9 PD have very similar power and torque curves. The peak power and torque are identical too. The CR claims about 10 mpg better fuel consumption though and the CO2 figure is lower, so less tax.

I towed a trailer a bit lighter than 600kg carrying 11 bikes to the Alps last summer with my 1.9 PD and apart from the engine running out of power at about 110 km/h on the climbs partially thanks the bicycles being one of the draggiest things you can tow, there was no problem getting around. The car climbed into the Alps towing more easily and probably with lower fuel consumption than the naturally aspirated 1.4 Meriva I rented to drive the same route a couple of years before...

The 1.9 is being phased out and I'd go for the 1.6 if I was buying anything that new.

Only thing I'd miss is the shove the 1.9 gives starting around 2000 - 2500 rpm - the 1.6 delivers the power more smoothly instead.

Edited 20 January, 201016 yr by psycholist

One difference, at least in the UK, is the 1.6TDi has a DPF fitted whereas the 1.9TDi doesn't. Given the mileage you do, I wouldn't think DPF should necessarily be an issue but do be aware.

As said above, the 1.6 TDi CR is a newer design, should be quieter and smoother, will be more economical and cheaper to tax.

I don't find my 1.9TDi overly agricultural or noisy, and there's plenty of power there when you jump on the gas although I do envy the greater fuel efficiency of the 1.6TDi.

The 1.6CR promises to be more reliable than the 1.9PD, but I would take that with a pinch of salt. The difference in purchase price between the 2 engines is worth considering... when it comes to discounts etc I would think the 1.9 would be over a grand cheaper, and that buys a lot of diesel.

More than enough power from either for your towing. I haul a folding caravan at around 950kg, with no problems, except for running out of steam on long grades in 6th!!

I suggest you test drive them and make up your own mind.

Late last year I required an Estate with a DSG box, and a test drive on a (second hand) 1.9 left me underwhelmed. My wife also found it sluggish (her car is a 10 year old 1.4 Fabia) and was not happy with it either. However it may have been a bad example as plenty of others swear by the 1.9 engine. The test drive on the 2.0 (140 bhp) was much more convincing (this was a new car) and this is what I bought in the end.

I don't know how familiar you are with diesel, but consider carefully the DPF issue. With the mileage I do in a year I personally would not consider a DPF system, and so this is probably my last diesel for a while until somebody comes up with a more robust technology solution.

This may sound a bit negative but I'm very happy with the 2.0 Octavia estate. However, as I said I would strongly recommend a test drive.

when it comes to discounts etc I would think the 1.9 would be over a grand cheaper, and that buys a lot of diesel.

Indeed, my 1.9 worked out £1400 cheaper than the price I would have paid for the 1.6 (on the scrappage scheme).

I suggest you test drive them and make up your own mind.

Late last year I required an Estate with a DSG box, and a test drive on a (second hand) 1.9 left me underwhelmed. My wife also found it sluggish (her car is a 10 year old 1.4 Fabia) and was not happy with it either. However it may have been a bad example as plenty of others swear by the 1.9 engine. The test drive on the 2.0 (140 bhp) was much more convincing (this was a new car) and this is what I bought in the end.

I agree with your sentiments about a test drive, although something doesn't sound right in the above example. I had a 2007 1.4TDi Fabia Estate loan car for a month just before Christmas whilst waiting for my delayed new 1.9TDi Octy, and there was no comparison. My Octy is a lot quieter and smoother. The 1.4 Fabia had absolutely nothing below 2000rpm and if you didn't constantly change down the gears the engine felt like it was about to break free of it's mountings and jump out of the engine bay! The vibration and noise were that bad. Maybe I just had a bad example of the 1.4TDi Fabia, but I am so much more pleased with my 1.9 Octy that words can't describe.

Could someone please explain exactly what a DPF system is and does

Is it similar to a catholic converter

We also tow a six berth house on wheels with ours, and that's 1400

Edited 20 January, 201016 yr by skippy41

Phil_P

I didn't mention in my post that my wifes Fabia is a 1.4 16 valve petrol. This knocks out around 100bhp. The point I was trying to make that this is similar to the 1.9 diesel but in a smaller body. I think this is the reason she found the Octavia underpowered.

Edited 20 January, 201016 yr by Minimoke

Skippy:

Go to the AA web site and search for "DPF". They will give you a goodbasic explanation.

Or is this a joke ????????

Edited 20 January, 201016 yr by Minimoke

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html

Sorted thanks

So the technology which is supposed to help the environment actually requires you to go on unnecessary drives up the motorway, driving hard in too low a gear.........! Don't you love the "joined up thinking" from those at the top?

Spot on drmike.

At least the Skoda DPF just costs around £1,000 to fix if it breaks, but for some makers the consequences can be more severe.

I looked at a number of diesel estates before purchasing the 2.0 Octavia, and the 2 litre Mazda 6 was a candidate at one point. Until I found out that the DPF on the 2 litre can cause contaminated oil in the engine (i understand the 2.2 may be OK as it uses a different DPF solution). To quote the Honestjohn site "Some owners believe the 2.0 diesels are not suitable for town and/or stop start driving as the build up of particulates cannot be removed and contaminates the engine with diesel fuel, leading to costly engine replacements or 3,500 mile oil changes". Some poor guy on the Mazda forums was looking at a bill of many thousands - his engine had been totally wrecked by the DPF problem.

These may be extreme examples, but sods law..........

Personally I'll wait until the manufacturers offer a better technology to meet the emissions targets.

Could someone please explain exactly what a DPF system is and does

Is it similar to a catholic converter

We also tow a six berth house on wheels with ours, and that's 1400

Thankfully most cars don't come with missionaries. The Diesel particulate filter just filters soot from the exhaust. If you spend most of your time cruising at decent speed the soot trapped in the filter gets burned off as you drive. If you do a lot of shorter trips especially when the engine doesn't get to warm up, the soot doesn't get burned off and starts to clog the filter. The car detects this and starts a regeneration cycle where it runs more fuel through the engine to raise the exhaust to the temperature at which the soot burns off at (This can potentially make fuel consumption worse than the PD engine if the car only gets short trips). Both diesel and petrol cars all come with a catalytic convertor to convert carbon monoxide to more environmentally friendly carbon dioxide as well as converting SOx and NOx compounds to less harmful compounds.

I'll go test driving again in 2015 when VW plan to release HCCi engines... Fueled on petrol, but they burn it more like a diesel for cruising and like a petrol when you want more power... Mercedes demoed an engine with 175 kW and 40+ mpg in 2009 IIRC, so best of both worlds...

And a final thought to all those who may think that I'm being critical of the 1.9, it does have its upsides......

Apart from avoiding the potential DPF problem, the 1.9 PD engine has been around for donkeys and is generally very reliable and is capable of starship mileages. Most potential problems (eg turbo and DMF failure) can be ironed out and have solutions.

CR engines are more refined and may prove just as reliable (if not more so) in the long run. But they do not have the lengthy service track record of the PD (just yet)

Phil_P

I didn't mention in my post that my wifes Fabia is a 1.4 16 valve petrol. This knocks out around 100bhp. The point I was trying to make that this is similar to the 1.9 diesel but in a smaller body. I think this is the reason she found the Octavia underpowered.

Thanks for clarifying - that makes sense

I have mixed feelings about the new 1.6CR

Many marques notably Mercedes and Ford have tremendous unsolved problems with CR injectors. There are many stories across all brands regading CR pump failures. And a common theme is if CR goes wrong it is very very expensive to fix.

I would hope VW have cracked the problems - but it is way too early to tell - Its a completely new design. Remember it is widely regarded that the 2.0 litre lump was a big step backwards reliabilty wise from the 1.9 lump.

And still using a cambelt? What the life on that and cost to change?

Compulsory DPF and DMF make modern diesels unsuitable for many people.

Can't comment on the comparison between the 1.9PD and 1.6CR - but as for towing, my 1.9PD tows a 1400cwt tin box reasonably as long as you're not in to much of a rush - so as far as 600cwt is concerned, shouldn't be an issue - but if you're trailers unbraked, double check the unbraked limit - should be OK but better to check it beforehand!

1.9 Any day for me being a well developed power plant, and looking at the problems with the 2L...

1cwt (hundredweight) = 50.8kg. So 1400cwt is just over 71 tonnes. That's quite extreme towing, Chipping.

(sorry for being pedantic)

......some caravan eh!!!

Actually quite right - that's me stuck in old codger mode - jus' can't get used to these kilo thingy's...........

The 2.0 PD is a big step back reliability wise from the 1.9?

What are the hard facts about that?

All I know is that the third party warranty companies don't reflect "big" difference in their premiums between the 1.9 an 2.0. For example, the cost of a 12 months warranty for major parts (ie the highrest level of cover on offer ) for a 3 year old Octavia Estate is only £20 extra for a 2.0 over a 1.9 from Warranty Direct.

Edited 21 January, 201016 yr by Minimoke

I've been lurking around these forums for quite some time now and I've not seen any solid evidence that there's a difference in reliability between the 1.9 and 2.0 TDi. I even did a poll on this once and the (reported) difference was negligible.

I've been lurking around these forums for quite some time now and I've not seen any solid evidence that there's a difference in reliability between the 1.9 and 2.0 TDi. I even did a poll on this once and the (reported) difference was negligible.

That's not the suggestion on other VAG forums - the 2,0 engine seems to have a good number of problems in (for example) early Tourans (porous head, DMF failures etc) which don't seem to affect the 1.9's. Perhaps the DMF can't cope with the extr 35 BHP too well?

I'm just going to pop down to the local dealers to see what they can offer me on a brand new 1.9 Elegance Estate. Seen one on one the brokers for about 14.5k, so wish me luck:-)

Main reason for the swap? My Touran (2.0TDi) is losing coolant at the moment, and has a nasty jerkiness on the clutch sometimes - apparently signs of an impending DMF failure...

Ben