I need a bit of advise here chaps.

I've got a constant knocking noise on the front of my Felicia, which is apparent pretty much ALL the time. It sounds worse on the drivers side, although a past MOT mentioned play on the nearside. Only when the car is jacked up can i actually move the suspension by grabbing the spring and shaking it laterally. This shows up some movement on the nut nut/cup assembly. Not a lot, maybe 3mm either way. Both sides of the car sem about the same, but as i say, the noise seems worse on the driverside.

It appears that the top bit visible in the engine bay stays in place, but everything underneath in the arch moves?

I imagine it could be the bearing at fault and see that Jorily sell kits to replace these, but included is a new spring top plate too, which I suppose would not need replcing unless rusty?

Thing is, should there be any lateral play at all? If so, how much? :wonder:

Edited 18 February, 201016 yr by myjalopy

when you say "constant knocking", what do you mean? Related to road speed? Engine speed? Going over bumps? Suspension going to full extension (when it's on the inside of a roundabout camber, etc)?

All the standard top mounts I've had on Favs and Fels have have some movement in them fairly quickly, but 3mm doesn't sound too bad. One man's lateral play is another man's totally shagged, mind you, remember there is a lot more force going through there when the car's weight is on there and moving it about. But if you can't find anything else, I think it's worth changing it to see if it sorts it out.

As you say, it may be just as well to change them anway, but I would rather avoid extra cost/hassle for nothing. Does the whole strut have to come out to do this?

It happens just travelling along, more noticeable over larger bumps, but is generally always chattering away. Not a loud thump, just a very audible knock. It is definitely suspension, but just looking for clues where to start.

When the car is on the ground you can't really move the strut, but off the ground is when you can see/feel the movement.

I can't find any obvious wear or movement in the rubbers anywhere else, like wishbone or anything, but again it is hard to check these without being able to get a good leverage. Not easy when you have limited clearance.

It doesn't seem to affect the handling at all, just an annoying noise which obviously shouldn't be there.

Edited 31 January, 201016 yr by myjalopy

Well if it does it like that, then it sounds like it is the strut tops. They're not expensive. Yes, you have to remove the strut. It's only 3 nuts/1 bolt to remove, and 1 more nut for the strut top. Main issue is if the strut is seized into the hub carrier or more likely if the bolt is seized into it, then it can be a massive PITA. Otherwise it's half an hour per side.

Well if it's anything like the balljoint /hub carrier bolt on my Scenic that I was forced to get a mechanic to undo, it is a MASSIVE PITA.

I might look at trying to do it in situ, with the help of spring compressors, unless you know that it is not possible?

I was worried the bottom bolt and nut would be seized on mine after reading the stories on here. I found it came off much easier than I expected. Give it a good dose of penetrating oil and leave it to soak for a while, you don't know if it will come off until you try

more than likely it needs the rubber cushion replacing, the bearings never really give trouble just pull it apart and grease the bearings while its off.. the rubber bit is what we usually replace.. are you sure you dont have a ball joint on its way too as they will knock pretty bad sometimes

'more than likely it needs the rubber cushion replacing'. Maybe, but probably as well to replace the lot while its off.

As for balljoint, that is a good point but I have grabbed the wheel, given it a good shake and pull, both whilst on jacks and on the ground with no movement detected.

Needs another look I think, might have time tomorrow.

Then change the thermostat, adjust the tappets, find out what is clunking in the gearbox, check the brakes over to see if they can be improved and I think the car will be about right !

another vote for top rubbers from me too, you won't be able to do it in situ...

when i changed the ones on my pickup a few weeks ago, the rubbers had compressed in with age which allowed the top of the strut to move a little... they are only about £5 each from the skoda dealer

OK, had as close a look as possible without getting the whole strut out.

There is no movement when the car is on the ground, only when on jacks. Thinking about this made me realise that the weight of the car when on the ground was stopping any movement, but I can't work out why it moves so freely when on jacks? How does it knock or rather, what is knocking when the rubber is faulty? I can't see that replacing the rubber will help.

On mine it was the top silver/plated bit you see hitting the top mounts. But they were knackered.

Tom, you say 'the rubbers had compressed in with age which allowed the top of the strut to move a little'

Did you get a knocking noise? Did they move when the car was on the ground or only when on jacks?

Edited 1 February, 201016 yr by myjalopy

well if you imagine an old cone shaped peice over the bearing it sits up inside a rubber donut the rubber is squashed by the cone bit and wears but because the cone is bigger at the bottom it just sits further inside the rubber, when its jacked up it comes away and because the rubber has worn there is a bigger hole in it than there should be so lots of movement.. i'll try and find a pic as i am realy crap at describing things like this

couldn't move it when the car was on the floor, but they weren't knocking either.. knocking is more likely to be the damper worn, or maybe the anti-roll bar bush

On mine it was the top silver/plated bit you see hitting the top mounts. But they were knackered.

If you mean the bits you can see on top of the wing, yes they move when the car is jacked up, but as they are attached to the piston I expected them to. Thing is, i can't get my head around what is making the knocking noise if it is a rubber piece that's at fault? It has to be metal on metal.

well if you imagine an old cone shaped peice over the bearing it sits up inside a rubber donut the rubber is squashed by the cone bit and wears but because the cone is bigger at the bottom it just sits further inside the rubber, when its jacked up it comes away and because the rubber has worn there is a bigger hole in it than there should be so lots of movement.. i'll try and find a pic as i am realy crap at describing things like this

No, excellently described. I know what you are saying about movement, but I can't understand why it knocks. That would have to be metal on metal.

couldn't move it when the car was on the floor, but they weren't knocking either.. knocking is more likely to be the damper worn, or maybe the anti-roll bar bush

Damper seems to operate fine. As far as bushes, well I have tried to lever and wobble these but can't. Maybe I need a bigger bar!

on top of the bearing is a dished washer... then a rubber mount..... then a metal plate and another dished washer goes on top of that... when the rubber gets compressed with age it allows the 2 dished washers to touch each other, and allows the top of the damper to float about

the actual noise (knock) is the top washer hitting the topmount like it does when jacked up, there is a hard plastic ring around the iside of the top plate (the bit that bolts to the body) and the dished top washer strikes that as the weight comes on and off it

Teflon. Well, the 2 dished washers do touch eachother ! On both sides of the car! The rubber doughnut would never prevent this though, unless I have different set up on my Felicia? The rubber doughnut is the only bit that controls movement then? It sits in the hole on the mounting plate

Today I took the top nut off one side and the top dished washer. It had a small amount of grease on the botton side of it to help with friction between the cups. I noted that the other dished washer, that goes over the bearing, did not move when twisting the strut. The top washer moves though, as it is not prevented from doing so by the rubber doughnut.

This is getting really confusing! A picture paints a thousand words, so I will try and upload one later. How do I do that?

In the meantime, the rubber bush on your picture, does it actually go between the two dished washers? I mean does it prevent them touching at all? If so, mine is definately not like that !

Edited 1 February, 201016 yr by myjalopy

the actual noise (knock) is the top washer hitting the topmount like it does when jacked up, there is a hard plastic ring around the iside of the top plate (the bit that bolts to the body) and the dished top washer strikes that as the weight comes on and off it

Yes, that makes sense. I can see the plastic ring and reckon the noise could well be that as it sounds kind of dull, not a harsh metal knocking noise. So, would replacing the rubber stop this?

the bottom dished washer sits around a locating ring built into the bearing and should remain in place while the steering is turned , the bearing sits between the spring top plate and the dished washer, the weight of the car is on the bottom washer and the rubber, the top plate should go tight against the face of the bottom one sandwiching the rubber between the bottom one and the body mounting plate

Yes, that makes sense. I can see the plastic ring and reckon the noise could well be that as it sounds kind of dull, not a harsh metal knocking noise. So, would replacing the rubber stop this?

yes as there should be only a very small space between the top washer and the plastic ring when the weight is on the suspension around 1mm i think just clearance, you can now probly see how much it has worn the rubber now :yes: as the rubber donut wears the top plate gets further away from the body mount

the bottom dished washer sits around a locating ring built into the bearing and should remain in place while the steering is turned , the bearing sits between the spring top plate and the dished washer, the weight of the car is on the bottom washer and the rubber, the top plate should go tight against the face of the bottom one sandwiching the rubber between the bottom one and the body mounting plate

Yep, I see. All sounds like what i have here.

yes as there should be only a very small space between the top washer and the plastic ring when the weight is on the suspension around 1mm i think just clearance, you can now probly see how much it has worn the rubber now :yes: as the rubber donut wears the top plate gets further away from the body mount

Ah, I've got more like 5mm !! Both sides are the same though.