DPF talk

[Dempsek]

When ever a thread is started about a diesel skoda somewhere the jolly old DPF and regens issues will rise.

This thread is an attempt to provide an area to discuss DPF and regen issues or not - time will tell if I got it right.

When I decded to get a new car I was totally unaware of the Deisel Particular Filter DPF and any possible problems.

Having driven deisels for some time now I decided I would not change and even at my milage the life cost of the Greenline II was cheaper than a similar petrol model.

I have only noticed one regen and I experianced the typical very smelly hot car lumpy running engine, it happend within the first 100 miles of getting the second engine. I suspect it was down to the ECU saying regen time and a new engine.

Normally can I tell when the car is going through a regen, no.

[raisbeck]

When ever a thread is started about a diesel skoda somewhere the jolly old DPF and regens issues will rise.

This thread is an attempt to provide an area to discuss DPF and regen issues or not - time will tell if I got it right.

When I decded to get a new car I was totally unaware of the Deisel Particular Filter DPF and any possible problems.

Having driven deisels for some time now I decided I would not change and even at my milage the life cost of the Greenline II was cheaper than a similar petrol model.

I have only noticed one regen and I experianced the typical very smelly hot car lumpy running engine, it happend within the first 100 miles of getting the second engine. I suspect it was down to the ECU saying regen time and a new engine.

Normally can I tell when the car is going through a regen, no.

Hi Dempsek

My Greenline is a PD engined 1.4 with a DPF. It regens every 120 miles like clockwork. It doesnt really smell or appear to get hot, it just sounds a little noisier for 5 mins. No extra fuel appears to be used and to be completely honest unless I knew it actually had one most people wouldnt notice any change in the engineduring regen.

Lots of comments have been made that "120 miles is too often". Nobody offers any evidence to support this comment. Its been like this since new and in no problem whatsoever. I honestly believe that the Greenline like many other makes can initiate a regen if the DPF gets approx 45% filled or if it hasnt had to regen up to 120 miles it does one anyway just to be safe. I looked in to this scenario and many other makes take this approach.

Try noting the mileage whenever it does a regen (if you notice it). You may find as I do that its a regular event . My money is on a mileage or fuel used counter that just initiates a regen regardless. So far I have never had the DPF light come on in 18000 miles.

Dont be upset or concerned over all the doom and gloom people will post on here about the DPF. Unless its from people who actually own one I would take it with a pinch of salt. 5 mins on google will have loads of DPF issues. Just take in to account how many DPF cars are out there now against how many people have problems. Nobody ever posts "oooh my DPF is brilliant and works really well" why would they ?

I am sounding like a stuck record now so will sit back and watch this posting with interest.

[seboni121]

Hi Dempsek

My Greenline is a PD engined 1.4 with a DPF. It regens every 120 miles like clockwork. It doesnt really smell or appear to get hot, it just sounds a little noisier for 5 mins. No extra fuel appears to be used and to be completely honest unless I knew it actually had one most people wouldnt notice any change in the engineduring regen.

Lots of comments have been made that "120 miles is too often". Nobody offers any evidence to support this comment. Its been like this since new and in no problem whatsoever. I honestly believe that the Greenline like many other makes can initiate a regen if the DPF gets approx 45% filled or if it hasnt had to regen up to 120 miles it does one anyway just to be safe. I looked in to this scenario and many other makes take this approach.

Try noting the mileage whenever it does a regen (if you notice it). You may find as I do that its a regular event . My money is on a mileage or fuel used counter that just initiates a regen regardless. So far I have never had the DPF light come on in 18000 miles.

Dont be upset or concerned over all the doom and gloom people will post on here about the DPF. Unless its from people who actually own one I would take it with a pinch of salt. 5 mins on google will have loads of DPF issues. Just take in to account how many DPF cars are out there now against how many people have problems. Nobody ever posts "oooh my DPF is brilliant and works really well" why would they ?

I am sounding like a stuck record now so will sit back and watch this posting with interest.

Great post!I had reservations when purchasing my new fabia elegance 1.6cr tdi 105bhp which is in the uk port at the moment,however I am happy with the technology which is the dpf no engine manufacturer would put out an engine in so many of their cars without being 100% happy with its performance long term,this would be like shooting themselves in the foot V.A.G as a group has brought this engine or the technology dpf to all its marques,so like all new technology or events they are scorned or scoffed at initially then it fine I for one will be happy to recieve my belated gift

[Guest]

DPF as a technology is well tried and tested. They've been about on vehicles for over 10 years (big commercial vehicles) but on some makes of car for 4 or more years. I agree with Raisbeck...no problems with them unless someone is only driving it on very short trips all the time. Even then, you only need to take it for a bit of a run to clear it. It's good stuff. Good thread by the way Dempsek.

[Mike Wrightson]

no problems with them unless someone is only driving it on very short trips all the time. Even then, you only need to take it for a bit of a run to clear it.

Which is an unnecessary journey and a waste of fuel, which wipes out any economy advantage over a petrol. All they have done is render diesels useless for anyone doing regular short trips. :S

[FabiaGreenline]

Which is an unnecessary journey and a waste of fuel, which wipes out any economy advantage over a petrol. All they have done is render diesels useless for anyone doing regular short trips. :S

Sorry I have to say that is untrue, as a driver in a Greenline doing the 5 mile cold start commute or less each day depending on the route. Since Nov 09 I've only had the DPF light 5 times during , which is easily fixed with a run along the dual carriageway for 8 miles just to warm it up more. I do longer journeys about once every two months which avoids the light in most circumstances as its doing its work then. Pottering around town gives around 60mpg, and longer journeys as documents here up to 98mpg. Diesel is not rendered useless for short trips. When I stay in London for extended trips, my driving around the city at some point normally involves a dual carriageway allowing 40mph 4 gear running which is enough to should it be necessary regen. The "Streetcar" company in London doesn't think it an issue either having a number of Polo Blumotion on their fleet all with the same 1.4TDi DPF. Also, consider what creates particulates in a diesel in good order.......a heavy right foot for one, so drive sensibly save some cash on fuel and DPF build up.

With fuel here at least 130.9ppl the diesel economy over the most basic fuel efficient 1.2 petrol engine is superior and saving me loads of cash.

[Guest]

Which is an unnecessary journey and a waste of fuel, which wipes out any economy advantage over a petrol. All they have done is render diesels useless for anyone doing regular short trips. :S

I don't have a car with a DPF. But I don't believe that to be the case Mike. Most of us diesel heads are paying just £0, £20, or £30 for our annual road tax, plus Diesels have such a large fuel economy advantage over petrol cars on shorter trips...even over the very good TSI engines. You'd have to go some to wipe out the cost/fuel economy advantages or even make a dent in it. After all, you only need to go for a steady speed drive for a few miles to clear the DPF...IF it tells you it needs it and most people never HAVE to do that. None of my friends with the 1.6cr have ever had to do it, and one of them is a housewife who trundles to the shops almost everyday and does a round trip of just 6.5 miles. The car only ever goes on a longer trips at the weekend doing anywhere between 30-40 miles or if she goes to see her parents 85 miles. I did suggest she take it on longer runs periodically when she first got the car but she hasn't done so. She's had the car over 9 months now without a DPF light coming on. But most people can accommodate a slightly longer drive if they need to I'm sure without a cost issue, you just need to know about the possible DPF issues, unless apparently, you are a housewife! As for any time that is donated to any special trip that is required, I understand this is a maximum of just twenty minutes if the DPF light ever comes on. Not a big deal I wouldn't have thought...but I can see why you were put off of buying a car with one, I was too was wary about them being fitted to cars to start with. But not now, and intend to buy the 1.6cr sometime in the next 12 months.

[Dempsek]

I have to say the thread has already been very calming for me.

For 4 months of the year the car will basically do the 4.5 mile town run to work and then back from work then mon to thurs the work run and a 150 mile plus run at the weekend and I was a bit concerned.

Mike, my previous car was a common rail diesel without a DPF and my new very tight Greenline is already lower to run on fuel and can only get better.

The Citroen was fully run in and did 36mpg around town, my Greenline with a seriously faulty engine averaged 52 mpg and the new engine with 500miles is showing 56mpg town driving - I have seen 72mpg on the dash. I think the best petrol engine is the 1.2 tsi engine with 42mpg for town, to run the car for a regen means me running the car for 10m at 2000 rpm in 4th, where the car will give about 80mpg.

For me and my Greenline your economy argument does not work - even doing a regen run against my old diesel the Greenline wins on fuel costs.

[raisbeck]

On the subject of economy.......I do loads of miles. I expect to do 22000 miles a year minimum. My greenline is saving me in the order of £900 a year in fuel costs compared to my old 1.2 HTP Fabia which returned around 48 mpg on the same run as my Greenline. I also save about £120 on road tax as the Greenline is £20 a year after the first year (which was free). So thats over £1000 a year saved by having a diesel Fabia instead of a petrol Fabia. Its probably more than that but I only calculated work mileage.

Regarding the comment on wasted journeys to clear the DPF. If I did have to do the odd journey to clear the DPF light... then I would have to travel a fair bit to lose £1000 of fuel savings

It is a valid point though that people who do really short journeys where the car barely gets to operating temperature without the odd longer run will very likely come unstuck. In the past people could have bought a diesel regardless of miles covered. The only loss would be the fact they paid more for a car that wont reap any benefit. With the compulsory fitting of the DPF those people would be out of pocket anyway as well as having blocked DPF issues as the diesel is now firmly back in its niche as a mile muncher.

Is this right ? probably not but thats just the way it is now.

Fabiagreenline has clearly demonstrated that a 5 mile commute is in most cases adequate to keep the old soot burner clear. His savings would most certainly be of more benefit than the occasional clearing run. If you wanted to calculate the fuel wasted I doubt it would even be 20 pence per month. I wonder how short your commute would have to be to really have major issues ?

[Mike Wrightson]

At 20k miles a year, it's a no-brainer to run the diesel, and you won't even notice the DPF is there. The economy saving will more than offset the £1k extra you will pay for the car over 3 years. However, at less than 8k miles, it will take more than twice as long to recover that extra purchase price. If you like to change the car at 3 years, it's not worth it.

If I needed to do a special trip to ensure the DPF was cleared, it is just wasting fuel and it's an extra worry that I just don't need. If I needed a 20 mile drive at the weekend to make sure it got cleared, that's 80 miles a month driven for no productive reason. That would get me to work and back for 8 days. Add that up over the year and I lose 96 days worth of commuting mileage, 960 miles. How much petrol can I buy for the cost of the diesel I have just burned for nothing? Assuming I'm driving a Greenline, that's 1 gallon of diesel used for regens each month, it's about £70. A tank and a half (nearly) of petrol at current prices, which will take me 550 productive miles.

Perhaps the mileage needed is over-estimated, but I'd end up doing about 20 miles most likely, to be sure it had done the regen.

That's my entire concern with DPFs, and why I think that a current diesel is unsuitable for those that only do short commutes. It introduces a risk and an extra worry that I don't need.

Please don't think I'm anti-diesel, I love a good TDI engine and if I was going to be doing the mileage I did in my previous job (20k per year) I'd be buying one ASAP

[delta925]

I have a 1.6 TDI CR 105 elegance estate on order due end of March / April if they keep to schedule.

With RFL currently £70 pa lower than 1.2TSI and I hope at least 20% better mpg I chose diesel as I intend to keep for 8 -10 years / 80000 miles.

If only keeping 3 -5 years 1.2TSI would have been cheaper overall.

My commute is 11miles / 20minutes each way, about 6 miles on dual carriageway at 60-70 mph depending on traffic and the rest on 30 - 40mph town roads.

In the summer I usually do a longer run at least twice a month but in winter may not do a longer journey for a couple of months.

If I have to go for a fast 25mile continuous trip to nowhere once a month or less I will not be happy.

When I ordered I knew DPF was fitted but not about regen process etc.

The dealer knew my commute when I ordered but made no comment about short journey issues.

Having read this and other threads I'm now wondering if I made the wrong choice and if too late to change order, although looking here

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/183779-12-tsi-unlead-95-octane-failure/

the 1.2TSI has some issues if not fed 98RON petrol increasing costs.

Edited 5 January, 2011 by delta925

[Mike Wrightson]

In summer you'd probably be fine, in winter you may have to make special trips or extend a journey if you notice a regen starting. Your commute sounds similar to mine.

My TSI is running fine on 95RON, just avoid the crappy supermarket stuff. (sorry for the OT)

Edited 5 January, 2011 by Mike Wrightson

[raisbeck]

At 20k miles a year, it's a no-brainer to run the diesel, and you won't even notice the DPF is there. The economy saving will more than offset the £1k extra you will pay for the car over 3 years. However, at less than 8k miles, it will take more than twice as long to recover that extra purchase price. If you like to change the car at 3 years, it's not worth it.

Its a fair point you make. I got the Greenline as it was already built and available in the spec I wanted. it was also over £1000 cheaper than normal due to the VAT offer. I also got an excellent price for my old Fabia. Had a standard Fabia diesel been available at the time in the colour/spec I wanted I may well have got that. I am actually very pleased with the Greenline.

If I did a short commute I would not have considered a diesel and certailnly not a Greenline. Other drivers have shown that the Greenline is very capable of being reliable over reasonably short commutes but as you say, the cost difference at purchase is hard to justify

I tend to buy cars new and drive them till they get too unreliable or an offer comes along thats too good to refuse (hence my Greenline). If it stays reliable I will keep it as long as possible. My last Fabia (1.2 HTP) Mk1 I had for 7 very enjoyable years. I would like to think this one will last at least as long if not longer as its a diesel. They say the DPF will last the life of the engine, we will see !!. I know of a taxi driver that had to replace a DPF at 160,000 miles on an Octavia. Thats about 6 years for me.

The DPF system on the Fabia is one of the more simpler designs. It doesnt use any of the additives that have to be injected like some other makes. These tend to have a shorter life as the additive produces non combustible residue which clogs the filter over time. The Fabia DPF relies on passive regeneration which occurs all the time during normal operation. This is assisted as required by the regen cycle using extra post combustion fueling. This is apparently a more durable system. The oil spec is very important as this is a low ash oil which allthough it produces some non combustible residue over time its not significant enough to cause premature blockage. I did notice at my dealer that the same oil is used throughout the entire range as the spec is ok for Non DPF cars also. Its actually a long life oil for non fixed schedule cars but is equally good for the fixed schedule. Its also used in petrol VAG engines which I found a little surprising.

For me the Greenline is all about economy. If I am honest I think the emission thing is mostly political hot air. As an example today I ran an aircraft on a ground stand for 30 mins at max power. I consumed the same amount of fuel that would keep my car going for about 6 months......Dirty old jet engines spewing out all their nastys. No DPF on them. Somehow a little soot burner on my car feels like lip service.

.

[raisbeck]

I have a 1.6 TDI CR 105 elegance estate on order due end of March / April if they keep to schedule.

With RFL currently £70 pa lower than 1.2TSI and I hope at least 20% better mpg I chose diesel as I intend to keep for 8 -10 years / 80000 miles.

If only keeping 3 -5 years 1.2TSI would have been cheaper overall.

My commute is 11miles / 20minutes each way, about 6 miles on dual carriageway at 60-70 mph depending on traffic and the rest on 30 - 40mph town roads.

In the summer I usually do a longer run at least twice a month but in winter may not do a longer journey for a couple of months.

If I have to go for a fast 25mile continuous trip to nowhere once a month or less I will not be happy.

When I ordered I knew DPF was fitted but not about regen process etc.

The dealer knew my commute when I ordered but made no comment about short journey issues.

Having read this and other threads I'm now wondering if I made the wrong choice and if too late to change order, although looking here

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/183779-12-tsi-unlead-95-octane-failure/

the 1.2TSI has some issues if not fed 98RON petrol increasing costs.

I only offer opinion but I would expect you will be fine. I can get a regen out the way in 5 minutes and certainly less than 4 miles. When you know the signs of a regen starting you can temporarily alter your driving style for 5 mins. I just drop a gear and keep the revs 2000 to 2500. Economy doesnt suffer and its all over and done with in no time at all. Alternatively do nothing and it will probably regen fine anyway. Mine takes a couple of miles more and a little longer if I am in 5th at say 1700 rpm.

The CR can regen even when idling. I would expect the regen to be shorter and better managed than mine as the CR system lends itself to better post fuel control.

[Mike Wrightson]

Will the regen only start once the engine is fully up to temperature? If that is the case, it might not start one during a commute, meaning some extra mileage will be needed.

[raisbeck]

Will the regen only start once the engine is fully up to temperature? If that is the case, it might not start one during a commute, meaning some extra mileage will be needed.

On mine once the blue temp light goes out it can start. The blue light even in winter goes out after about 1 mile. I like it when it starts a regen straight away as the car warms up quicker and I get all toasty as the heater works better sooner than it otherwise would do.

Normally the car isnt properly warmed up until several miles has passed. With the regen kicking in it gets warm really quick. The blue light to me doesnt mean its properly warm, just not so cold your going to damage anything by revving it

[Fatbloke]

DPF as a technology is well tried and tested. They've been about on vehicles for over 10 years (big commercial vehicles).

The earliest commercial vehicle I saw with DPF was a bus in Switzerland in 1990 with it proudly emblazoned down the side so yes it has been around a while

[FABTPM]

Will the regen only start once the engine is fully up to temperature? If that is the case, it might not start one during a commute, meaning some extra mileage will be needed.

My 1.6CR only seems to start a regen when the oil temp has exceeded 90 degrees and as others have mentioned here the engine sounds different (and mine feels a bit more sluggish/strained). If a regen has started and then I get into stop/start traffic the revs start fluctuating around 1000rpm and the vehicle starts shaking, sometimes quite badly. I first noticed this when the car was a week old and having travelled 190 miles I hit stop/start traffic on the M25 - it was not a pleasant experience and I thought the car was going to breakdown. You may also notice a burning smell and the cooling fan running.

The good news is that the DPF light has never come on in 6000 miles, and when I have stopped it doing a regen by arriving at my destination it completes it the next time I use the car. This seems to be a forced regen and the engine seems to warm up very quickly - you can physically see the temperature gauge climb. It then runs a bit rough for about 3 or 4 miles and then returns to normal.

My normal commute is about 13 miles each way with a slow bit in stop/start traffic in the middle and the potential to do about 6 miles at 70mph. However the engine in mine doesn't manage to get much above 80 degrees in this cold weather so a longer run may help, or keep it in a lower gear for longer as others have suggested. I asked the dealer when buying the car if I was likely to have any problems with the DPF considering my daily commute - they said no.

The main concern I have with my vehicle is the shaking which can be quite bad, and an ever increasing oil level. There may of course be a fault on my car but Skoda do not seem prepared to find out. I really wished I had got the 1.9PD Scout they had in the showroom without the DPF.

[raisbeck]

My 1.6CR only seems to start a regen when the oil temp has exceeded 90 degrees and as others have mentioned here the engine sounds different (and mine feels a bit more sluggish/strained). If a regen has started and then I get into stop/start traffic the revs start fluctuating around 1000rpm and the vehicle starts shaking, sometimes quite badly. I first noticed this when the car was a week old and having travelled 190 miles I hit stop/start traffic on the M25 - it was not a pleasant experience and I thought the car was going to breakdown. You may also notice a burning smell and the cooling fan running.

The good news is that the DPF light has never come on in 6000 miles, and when I have stopped it doing a regen by arriving at my destination it completes it the next time I use the car. This seems to be a forced regen and the engine seems to warm up very quickly - you can physically see the temperature gauge climb. It then runs a bit rough for about 3 or 4 miles and then returns to normal.

My normal commute is about 13 miles each way with a slow bit in stop/start traffic in the middle and the potential to do about 6 miles at 70mph. However the engine in mine doesn't manage to get much above 80 degrees in this cold weather so a longer run may help, or keep it in a lower gear for longer as others have suggested. I asked the dealer when buying the car if I was likely to have any problems with the DPF considering my daily commute - they said no.

The main concern I have with my vehicle is the shaking which can be quite bad, and an ever increasing oil level. There may of course be a fault on my car but Skoda do not seem prepared to find out. I really wished I had got the 1.9PD Scout they had in the showroom without the DPF.

I have no idea what temperature my car gets to as the PD engined Greenline doesn't have any form of temperature gauge. It just has a blue light that goes out when its warm. Apparently it goes red when its 'too warm'.

I had thought the 1.6 CR was designed with DPF in mind. I then discovered this engine in non DPF form was installed in Ocatavias quite a while before DPF was mandatory. My PD engine has been specially modified for use in the Greenline by having the injector cams modified for post combustion regen and altered engine management to move the torque band.

The CR with its 4 cyclinders and common rail system would surely be expected to have finer regen control and smoother running whether regenerating or not. Shaking engine sounds a bit odd. Other folks have also described this on their CR engines.

I really want to try one of these CR engines to see how it compares to my PD.

[Guest]

If it's any help, I understand from the 3 people that I know who have these 1.6cr engines in Fabia's that the shaking is much worse during the first few thousand miles when the engine is still quite tight. After 8-10k it seems to be a whole lot better during stationary regens to the point where no one actually seems to notice it. Time will tell I guess.

[Dempsek]

quite a good read this, i work for skoda and speak to many garages,technicians and the concensus is you should hardly ever really notice the car doing a regen, yes it should idle slightly lumpy and maybe a bit of a smell but not to the degree of shaking the car and smelling like its on fire. mike maybe you've got a bad egg unfortunately it happens if you make a million cars the chances are theres going to be a couple out there that are, or maybe your early experience of the car has soured it and now everything looks like an issue. what mileage/type of runs do you do, talking to a couple of salesman about the issues and how they explain this to customers ie who the car is aimed at and they said they rarely explain how the dpf works and the drawbacks of doing lower mileage. they arent interested if theres a sale on the table

Here is the potential problem as stated in this post by bond007 from the 1.6 CR TDI appualing fuel consuption , the salemen are only interested in a sale, commision and targets. My sister i always saying go to Honda the dealers are rewareded for customer care not just sales.

Now given FabaGreenlin's earlier post I should be OK, but when I bought my car there was no question about my milage and driving type.

last night I calculated the life costs of the Fabia 1.2Tsi 85bhp SE, 1.6TDI 90 SE and the Greenline II - all have about the same spec, I used 3650miles of town driving (10 mile a day) and + 5% for regens. To my suprise after 3 years the order based on lowest overall cost ( using a 5p differencial in fuel cost) excluding resale was Greenline, 1.2 TSI and 1.6 TDI.

Edited 8 January, 2011 by Dempsek

[raisbeck]

Here is the potential problem as stated in this post by bond007 from the 1.6 CR TDI appualing fuel consuption , the salemen are only interested in a sale, commision and targets. My sister i always saying go to Honda the dealers are rewareded for customer care not just sales.

Now given FabaGreenlin's earlier post I should be OK, but when I bought my car there was no question about my milage and driving type.

last night I calculated the life costs of the Fabia 1.2Tsi 85bhp SE, 1.6TDI 90 SE and the Greenline II - all have about the same spec, I used 3650miles of town driving (10 mile a day) and + 5% for regens. To my suprise after 3 years the order based on lowest overall cost ( using a 5p differencial in fuel cost) excluding resale was Greenline, 1.2 TSI and 1.6 TDI.

Did you use the book mpg figures or real world mpg as quoted by folks on the forum ?

[Dempsek]

Did you use the book mpg figures or real world mpg as quoted by folks on the forum ?

Raisbeck, as I cannot take into account peoples driving style and topography I chose to use book figures. I cannot see why some one getting only 80% of book from a diesel would get more from a petrol and vice versa - as you say you get better mpg than your wife from your Greenline.

[raisbeck]

Raisbeck, as I cannot take into account peoples driving style and topography I chose to use book figures. I cannot see why some one getting only 80% of book from a diesel would get more from a petrol and vice versa - as you say you get better mpg than your wife from your Greenline.

Wife !!!

I dont recall ever getting married. Maybe you are referring to my long suffering partner. She owns the 1.4 MPI. She did drive my Greenline once but couldnt get on with the quirks of a diesel. That or the look of terror on my face as I cowered in the passenger seat was the problem :peek:

I wasnt criticising your calculations, just curious of the figures used. Could be a wide margin of error. The quoted figures for the PD Greenline are attainable and the 1.6 CR for many arent. But you have to start somewhere.

I was looking at forum postings for putting 2 stroke oil in your diesel tank at 1:200 ratio....its an age long argument. Apparently it improves everything all round including keeping the DPF clearer as less particulates are produced. Burns cleaner than diesel with less ash if its the right spec. Skoda dont approve of any additives so wont be doing it myself, well not until the warranty period is over. It supposedly raises the Cetane rating and lubes all the high stress parts and injectors. When they took out most of the sulphur from diesel you lose lubricating properties which was affecting high pressure pumps and injectors. Now biodiesel is added its not just for environmental reasons but replaces the sulphur as a lubricant for fuel components. This may make the 2 stroke addition a pointless exercise. Lots of farmers and the military been adding 2 stroke oil to diesel for years to keep things clean and better running.

I dont promote the above, I just found it an interesting read. If Millers Ecomax amend the labelling to approve for DPF cars I will use that out of warranty period. Its probably just 2 stroke oil anyway Millers say its ok and that they plan to amend the labelling soon.

Disclaimer: All the opinions regarding 2 stroke oil and additives are for conversation only. I have no opinion either way on the truth or efficacy of any additive. It may be a wonderful thing to add or a sledgehammer to your engine in liquid form Just take a look on the net yourself, its all over the place

[Dempsek]

Wife !!!

I dont recall ever getting married. Maybe you are referring to my long suffering partner. She owns the 1.4 MPI. She did drive my Greenline once but couldnt get on with the quirks of a diesel. That or the look of terror on my face as I cowered in the passenger seat was the problem :peek:

Sorry I so nearly used partner then picked the wrong answer.

Also I have rechecked my previous figures, never calculate anything past 11.30, there was an error which meant I was talking rubbish. The true winner on 3650 miles is the 1.2 TSI as everybody else was saying.

The interesting thing I did notice is using Skoda's website the MPG for all three 1.6 CR TDI engines appears to be the same?