Hi guys

Had my tyres changed 3 months ago (they scuffed the face of one wheel :( )

Anyway I though I'd have the wheels off today to give them a deep clean, to my surprise the bolts were so tight that the Skoda supplied wrench snapped as did the 17mm socket I ended up using. Needless to say I only got one wheel off.

Can over tightened bolts do any damage to the hub etc.

I don't understand why these garages feel the need to put the wheels on with an air gun just to then put the torque wrench on to hear it click the moment pressure is applied.

Must add I didn't use my usual tyre fitter this time.

Yes, over tightened bolts can strip the thread on both the bolts and the hub. I had this courtesy of a Halfords autocentre.

Whenever I get new tyres fitted I always check the pressures and loosen and retorque the nuts the next day. Torque setting is 120nm.

God only knows why they think the nuts need to be done so tight with the air gun.

Think I might need to invest in a decent torque wrench, any ideas of cheapish good quality versions

God only knows why they think the nuts need to be done so tight with the air gun.

Think I might need to invest in a decent torque wrench, any ideas of cheapish good quality versions

Halfords do a good one at £69 and Screwfix and Machine Mart do some decent ones too.

God only knows why they think the nuts need to be done so tight with the air gun.

Think I might need to invest in a decent torque wrench, any ideas of cheapish good quality versions

Don't know about you, but I always like a nice tight set of nuts.

But I wouldn't like them done up with an air gun.

Air guns are fine as long as the fitter knows what he's doing, after the air gun has done the bulk of the work the nuts should always be tightened to a pre-determined torque using a torque wrench.

Better still, they should take an extra 30 seconds per wheel, use a wheel brace and leave the air guns for steel wheels.

The problem is that alloy is soft and the steel nuts are tough. Over tighten the nuts into the soft alloy and its often game over it terms of backing them off.

I'd be paying a little visit to the rogue tyre fitter and ask him to remove them. Quite often it involves damaging the alloy, he'll know this and will no doubt try to claim someone else has had the wheels off/on since he did the work.

His mistake, you just need to prove it / convince him!

Edited 25 April, 201115 yr by silver1011

The air gun is fine, but they seem to be over set to do the bolts up above the required 120Nm and then of course they put the torque wrench on and surprise surprise it clicks straight away.

I don't know why they can't set the air guns to 100Nm and then torque them up by hand.

I use a 12v Machine Mart impact wrench, sold under their own brand name of 'Clarke', together with some of their specially toughend impact sockets, to loosen stubborn nuts. Works a treat and stands up well so far to occassional use. I run it off the car's battery. I use a hand held 'micrometer' type torque wrench to tighten them up again.

God only knows why they think the nuts need to be done so tight with the air gun.

Think I might need to invest in a decent torque wrench, any ideas of cheapish good quality versions

Aldi and Lidl do them a couple of times a year for about £15. Found it perfectly usable.

I've been to a few places that spin on the nuts with a gun then hand tighten. That seems to be ok but I also check the torque.

Ideally they should torque them to the recommended setting then advise you to have them checked after about 100 miles... but I do that myself.... more annoying is the "free alignment check" which invariably means they start messing about with your alignment in order to charge you for something you didn't need done... If you go to a place that can't even put the wheels back on properly I wouldn't want them touching anything else !!!!

Edited 26 April, 201115 yr by hugothebear

Ideally they should torque them to the recommended setting then advise you to have them checked after about 100 miles... but I do that myself.... more annoying is the "free alignment check" which invariably means they start messing about with your alignment in order to charge you for something you didn't need done... If you go to a place that can't even put the wheels back on properly I wouldn't want them touching anything else !!!!

Totally agree, hence why I won't be returning to any Halfords Autocentre!

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/195946-halfords-autocentres-review/

Air guns cannot be set accurately to a predetermined torque setting . They are intended to remove stubbon nuts/bolts by using quick successive "hammer" shock loads. The wheel nut/bolt should be slackened after using a air gun and then tightened with a torque wrench which applies a gradual increasing torque.Unfortunately even this method is not fool proof as tyre fitters sometimes rotate the torque wrench after its "clicked" just to make sure ! I know this because I've seen them do it !

If the bolts/nuts have not been de-rusted then they can seize if fitted with rusty threads.

The only answer to all this is to buy a torque wrench and remove the bolts and give them a good wire brush to remove rust from threads , apply a small amount of copper anti-seize to the threads and then torque up to correct value. If you are a perfectionist then tighten them fully up lightly with the makers wrench and then diagonally tighten (similar to cyl.head tightening) to say half the torque value and then repeat for full value torque twice .Then you can put your hand on your heart with some confidence and say your wheel bolts / nuts are correctly tightened & should be easily removed for any future wheel removal ! Don't put the wheel bolt/nut cover(s) on until all the wheel bolts have been torqued.

Edited 26 April, 201115 yr by vwcabriolet1971

IIRC Skoda says not to use grease on the wheel bolts. Grease would allow over torquing even with a torque wrench because it reduces friction.

That said, I find the section of the bolt that passes through the wheel, but not far enough to reach the hub itself, always needs cleaning and benefits from a little grease. I think it must be a reaction between the two metals that causes the build up on gunk?

IIRC Skoda says not to use grease on the wheel bolts. Grease would allow over torquing even with a torque wrench because it reduces friction.

That said, I find the section of the bolt that passes through the wheel, but not far enough to reach the hub itself, always needs cleaning and benefits from a little grease. I think it must be a reaction between the two metals that causes the build up on gunk?

I've been using copper ant-seize paste for about 15 years on all the family cars ( all 6 of them !) without any problems ( & without any removal problems !) . I agree that any grease will reduce the friction slightly but the anti-seize paste in not really intended as a grease or lubricant.

I've been using copper anti-seize paste for about 15 years on all the family cars ( all 6 of them !) without any problems

+1

I've been using copper ant-seize paste for about 15 years on all the family cars ( all 6 of them !) without any problems ( & without any removal problems !) . I agree that any grease will reduce the friction slightly but the anti-seize paste in not really intended as a grease or lubricant.

Hi

I don't know since I'm not a mechanic but copper paste is clearly a lubricant of some sort: A quote from opieoils.co.uk:

"About Fuchs RENOLIT Copper Paste Anti Seize Paste

High temperature copper anti-seize paste. Lubricates up to 1100°C..."

However, the tech sheet from Fuchs does say Automotive applications include:

"Wheel nuts, spark plug threads, cylinder head bolts,

exhaust systems, etc.

Prevents brake squeal – apply to calliper, pins and

back of pad."

On balance I am inclined to take your advice and try a little copper paste next time

Copper grease is Ok but I prefer lithium grease as it is more chemically neutral which copper grease is not.

Use of either copper or lithium grease will interfere with torque wrench settings, but again this should not be a major problem if the torque setting is recognised as being purely a guide and approximate guide. Just don't overtighten!

However don't use grease wher torque settings are critical (eg cylinder head bolts on alloy cylinder heads). Its preferable in those circumstance to use bolt stretch settings, but the stretch specification are unfortunately often not readily available.

Edited 27 April, 201115 yr by Minimoke

It really gripes me when they put the locking wheel nut in with the air gun. I've started taking the damn things off with the breaker bar before I go now.

Always undo them and re torque them as others have mentioned after, i've also split sockets trying to get them apart.

Hi

I don't know since I'm not a mechanic but copper paste is clearly a lubricant of some sort: A quote from opieoils.co.uk:

"About Fuchs RENOLIT Copper Paste Anti Seize Paste

High temperature copper anti-seize paste. Lubricates up to 1100°C..."

However, the tech sheet from Fuchs does say Automotive applications include:

"Wheel nuts, spark plug threads, cylinder head bolts,

exhaust systems, etc.

Prevents brake squeal – apply to calliper, pins and

back of pad."

On balance I am inclined to take your advice and try a little copper paste next time

Make sure that the radiused mating face of the underside of the wheel bolt head is clean and free from the copper anti-seize and also the bolt seating areas of the wheel bolt holes. When the copperseize has been on for a few years it will dryout but will still leave a layer of copper between the threads and stop them seizing.

Edited 27 April, 201115 yr by vwcabriolet1971

Make sure that the radiused mating face of the underside of the wheel bolt head is clean and free from the copper anti-seize and also the bolt seating areas of the wheel bolt holes. When the copperseize has been on for a few years it will dryout but will still leave a layer of copper between the threads and stop them seizing.

Also it will make it more likely to over-torque when tightening.

For refeence you can get torque calibrated pneumatic impact wrench, but they aint cheap ad I doubt any automtove spots use them (with the excepion of motorsport).

Also it will make it more likely to over-torque when tightening.

For refeence you can get torque calibrated pneumatic impact wrench, but they aint cheap ad I doubt any automtove spots use them (with the excepion of motorsport).

The slight over- torqueing due to the anti-seize copper paste will be a lot less than the over-torqueing required to undo a partially or totally seized rusted wheel bolt.