It has probably been done to death but no one seems to have a credible answer to this

What car have just done their JD power survey (June 2005 issue).Lexus first,Skoda second :woot: Honda third and so on. Same as the autoexpress one really.

What I just cannot get my head round (and I don't know why I have a bee in my bonnet about it ) is the best selling cars in this country are all wedged firmly at the bottom of the pile of cars making up the surveys.I mean well and truly wedged.Yes,the best sellers are the worst cars :confused:

So how do these companies sell so many hundreds of thousands of cars that according to owners are tat.Is it brilliant advertising? Is it a totally ignorant public?

I just think ford,renault fiat (and VW!) etc are going to come in for a huge shock.The japanese have proved themselves over the last few years.The koreans are also doing a mighty fine job too.

Does anyone have a plausible explanation or is it simply good advertising.I just dont know :banghead:

Its called sheep syndrome or something like that. They see and follow the masses. 0 thought processes involved

I'd imagine that a lot of common cars are driven by people who have no more enthusiasm for them then they would a toaster...as such, they'd probably only bother doing an survey on the car if they were really unhappy with it.

This will then cause the results to skew accordingly...

Another factor is indeed marketing and cost - how many people can afford to run a Lexus? And how popular are Mercs/VWs/Audi based on their reputations? And cars like the Mini and Beetle sell in bucketloads, because of image.

Rob.

I think a lot of it is down to sample sizes and owner population.

The people who answer surveys like that tend to fall at opposite ends of the spectrum, i.e. they're either very happy and want to evangelise their brand, or disgruntled and want to damage its reputation in the eyes of other prospects.

The vast majority of people fall somewhere in between. They have a niggle or two, but overall, they're reasonably happy, and after all (wait for it...) IT'S JUST A CAR! :P

I think the other part of it is that (although it's changing too) the majority of Fords, Renaults etc. are bought by fleet operators, whose drivers don't feel they have ownership of the car, and, again, don't bother with surveys. On the other hand, owners of minority brands are more likely to have spent their own money on the car.

Edit: damn - need to plant some kind of trojan on Rob's PC to slow him down a bit .. :evil:

I think the other part of it is that (although it's changing too) the majority of Fords' date=' Renaults etc. are bought by fleet operators, whose drivers don't feel they have ownership of the car, and, again, don't bother with surveys. On the other hand, owners of minority brands are more likely to have spent their own money on the car.

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Interesting, because i always thought of it the other way arround. I reckon that if you felt a car had been forced on you (ie via a limited fleet choice) you where more likely to pick fault with anything you could.

Also, in terms of dealers, the Ford's and Vauxhall's (see apostrophe thread ) have customers coming out of their ears, so don't have to be particularly helpful.

Its called sheep syndrome or something like that. They see and follow the masses. 0 thought processes involved

Shame they're not lemmings

Would agree with the fleet market theory:)

When the SMMT produce thier figure for sales, these include the bucket load of fleet cars that are sold, and don't forget the PRE reg cars that the dealers create in order to achieve sale figures and get their bonuses.

Would also agree with - The majority of people who do these surveys have actually spent thier own money on the car. Those that are not happy probably read the rave reviews by the motoring press ( who are not pro drivers & only get a limited time with the test car ), and buy it, then find the real day to day experiences are NOT all that the cars were cracked up to be.

Add to that they most likely get "an end of friday shift " car, and the misery of those that get one of these find that some / a lot of the high volume dealers appear to be only interested in "shifting metal " and taking money, They now have complaints about the dealerships that dont give a fig for customer service.

I think it might because the location of local dealer. Do you find any Lexus, Skoda or Honda dealer just within walkable distance from local town center? But ford and renault dealers are everywhere. If there is any problem with my Ford or Renault, I could just cross the street and question them, rather than travelling 10-20 miles to my nearest Lexus dealer. Is good if your dealer is just right round the corner.

I have only to look across the road and there are Peugeot, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Renault, Lexus, Honda, Alfa, Fiat, Toyota, Maserati, Ferrari, Porsche, and Skoda (I think there are probably one or two others but can't recall them just now).

No Ford, Vauxhall or Rover though :P

I think it's down to cost and image. Skoda dont have the image that most people want either do Honda to be honest, lexus is too much money.

peugeot are cheap and cheerful but breakdown all the time (and yes I have a grudge against peugeot) Ford again are cheap and have street credit (So I've been told )

Nick are you close to Letchworth? With all the dealers so close it sounds like a place near Norton Road

I have only to look across the road and there are Peugeot' date=' Nissan, Mitsubishi, Renault, Lexus, Honda, Alfa, Fiat, Toyota, Maserati, Ferrari, Porsche, and Skoda (I think there are probably one or two others but can't recall them just now).

No Ford, Vauxhall or Rover though :P[/quote']

Were are you? :confused:

Just across the road from here and here which reminds me I forgot Chrysler, Jeep, BMW and Lotus, not to mention Kia ... :P

The Skoda thing is definately that people have lower expectations, so when the car doesn't go wrong they fill in these surveys and say how wondeful it is.

With Ford's, Vauxhall's and Fiat's people expect a standard car and that's what they get. They don't really break down much more than Skodas, but when they don't the owners don't make a big deal.

Skoda drivers make a big deal of their drives because as well as saving a packet on, say, an Octavia rather than a Mondeo, they get the same or even better reliability.

Other reasons are the brand-related expectations.

Skodas had to be improved from 'why bother' to a 'great car for the money'. This therefore meant using good quality parts and ensuring good quality where it matters.

If you spend a certain amount on a car, you'd expect a certain amount of features, standard of quality of fittings, ICE, that kinda stuff.

Let's say you bought a Merc SLK500 - if that creeked you would be pretty hacked off with that and get it sorted. After all, you've paid that premium.

I was happy enough with my old runabout, Rover 100. It was fine for the 30 miles/day commute. I now do near-enough 90 miles/day and the Furby is WAY, WAY better for that.

Just across the road from here and here[/url'] which reminds me I forgot Chrysler, Jeep, BMW and Lotus, not to mention Kia ... :P

I guess you must be in Swindon then

Some good points but surely it must be a straightforward and fair view if it is a properly carried out survey? :confused:

If they have a minimum number of people replying for a car to qualify,say 50 of a certain model there would be a fair reflection of owners praise and gripes in general? Those who want to moan would and those who want to say well done would also respond.Those who were apathetic and didn't respond (as someone said) probably just see their car as 'the red thing on the drive'

Audi for me were a disappointment because of the dealer.Not because I wanted to be fed grapes while I waited and be treated super special,I just wanted what was an inconvenience anyway (visiting the garage to fix a fault) made as near to a pleasant experience as possible.It never was,it was always a pain.

As for skoda,I don't have low expectations.I bought skoda because amongst other things it had good reviews and in my view was a VW without that other pain in the bum dealer,VW.I wanted a car that worked,looked good,felt solid and if ever I went to the garage it was not a chore.

Surely those that wrote back at least knew about cars and if they had faults they simply said so.

Take two very similar cars..

Skoda Ocavia - Generally the customer thinks he/she has bought a very well priced well specced car and is happy with it, it might have a rattle here and there but it was cheap(ish).

VW Golf - Customer is under the impression they have bought a Rolls Royce, and will complain about every little niggly thing going and have a poorer opinion of the 'quality' of the vehicle. Add to this the general low opinion of the dealer network and its begins to make sense.

Just a few observations from working on both brands.

Its great that Skoda did so well in these surveys, but I've always had a bit of a problem making comparisons across makes of cars the way they do in these surveys.

You wouldn't normally ask a Kia owner what they think about cars, they don't know much or else they wouldn't have bought one of those (sorry if I seem to be picking on Kia owners here, but the magazine reviews describe them as pitifully bad cars).

If you take a 'quality' brand, people expect more from the car.

The survey is all about whether the car is better or worse than their buyers expected. It doesn't tell us whether they are good cars or bad cars.

But of course, as Skoda owners, we are well informed, intelligent buyers, with high standards, and the cars are so good that they have impressed even us