Citigo ASG

[Skoda-Man]

As someone who would only buy an automatic in future, I'm interested in what you say. Trouble is, I'm not sure how anyone knows what this particular box is like if it's not available yet. Is this the same box as in the Opel and Toyota?

It`s not the same, but if I understand correctly, the principle is the same.

[Phil-E]

It`s not the same, but if I understand correctly, the principle is the same.

Yes it is.

It will all come down to how quickly the solenoids will be able to move and how they are programmed. That will either make or brake the car.

Think what you've got to bear in mind is that it's still a manual gearbox so if that same box was controlled manually there is always going to be a pause with changes. I think these gearboxes are seen to be poor as they are expected to function as smoothly as an torque coverter auto or a DSG but that just isn't realistic.

Phil

[Ootohere]

??? Has anyone driven an Automatic Gearbox Citigo yet?

Does it matter what any other car is or does?

, just try this one when it is available!

They are just a car.

Point A to point B.

Want to use your left leg, then buy a manual,

do not want to or can not use your left leg buy Automatic.

Want to use your left foot instead of your right foot to drive or use the throttle

it needs to be the Automatic then really..

Just a car,

& time will tell if it is good or bad and if people like the Automatic or not.

??? When can we actually get to drive or be driven in an Automatic Citigo?

george

[Bassa]

Here's a report from AE on the Seat with ASG

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/seat/mii/59881/seat-mii-auto-5-dr?DCMP=NLC-Newsletters&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter

[Ootohere]

I see 'Stuart Morton's' Name on the article,

(never heard of him, but i never read AE, because i just no longer do)

so that will be his article & an opinion, or is it?.

** Is that him in the picture,?**

I take it that he was driving one on a road & that is his experience.

Does not clearly say much like on anything other than i have read before.

Very short on anything & its like facts and figures

& reads like every 'Road Test' of an small automatic, do they ever dare say, really bad or good at this point,

or did they get out of the car park with it..

Anymore proper tests or reviews anyplace yet..?

george

[Hudson1]

The book on the citigo i have says the MGP is worse than a manual.... which frankly is what i would expect, i can not see it being better.... for me, given its use as a quick nip about car, the maual box will be more than suitable and i think in the long run give less hassle.

[Ootohere]

The book was surely printed & none are yet driving on roads in private hands,

so the figures are from 'their' computerised rolling road tests,

or as normal plucked out the air, world wide testing, whatever 'they' say.

Only Time will tell what the average manual driver gets in MPG & reliability over the average Auto driver & their cars reliability

& actual economy..

george

[Hudson1]

I guess, but i have never yet heard of any auto box having better mpg than a manual box, ever.

[Ootohere]

Can a DSG when left in D & not used manually , not do better than the same engine with a manual box with much the same route?

Or at least can it not in the hands of someone that might not get the best MPG from manuals?

Or maybe try in the real world an iQ 1.0 CVT over a manual box 1.0 iQ.

But not if you go by the Official book figures.

Or a 1.1 Picanto Auto over a 1.1 manual, but not going by the official book figures.

Just put the manual in the hands of my other half and then see how no matter how badly she drives, the Auto uses less fuel.

That is the same with many drivers, not all can drive a manual economically or changes gear or drive in an economic way,

yet give them an Autobox and it pretty much does what it does.

george

[oldstan]

I guess, but i have never yet heard of any auto box having better mpg than a manual box, ever.

I agree. I love the DSG and would (and will) buy another but It seems obvious to me, all the time, that I could change up and get the rpm down earlier and more often than the DSG does. And I don't believe the ASG could do a better job than the DSG either. (But am willing to be proved wrong!) And as for torque convertor boxes, I've just filled the i10 automatic up again and it, again, returned 33.9 mpg. Hardly spectacular for a 3.5 metre 1.2 litre city car driven gently.

[Ootohere]

oldstan,

i have read yours and others posts on the 'Hyundai Forum' & your cars getting only 33 mpg.

I went when the 1.2 auto i10 came out to change the Picanto auto for one, after reading the Tests on it and the more hp.

The thing was that i got handed the keys of it for a day and took it and thrashed it,

& it was left cold by it compared to the 1.1 Picanto 4 cylinder 16 valve that returns 42 mpg when even just getting started and run 2 miles with the blue cold light still on & 2 miles back.

it easily does 48-50 mpg when warmed up and on runs.

Sometimes engines are just right & do not need increased or Improved.

Saying that, good spark plugs are important, & i just fitted new Coils this week. £160 for them.

Cars 6 years old with 24,000 miles so hardly used much but i can guarantee that each tank full will always give a return of over 42 mpg per gallon. £120 road tax.

(4.546 by the way, the little 6 is important.)

I can not wait to get an order in for a Citgo/Up!/Mii ASG, which ever works out best and is least Fisher Price like.

(& from which ever Dealership can come up with an honest delivery date)

Not a 3 Door with that huge and hopless door that would need parking in a disabled bay to be able to get in and out the car easily..

I will let you know how it goes driven normally and then Hypermiled.

george

[seboni121]

Auto box will always use more fuel

[seboni121]

In general terms a manual will always, in theory, be more economical than an automatic. A manual transmission provides a more direct link via the manual clutch from the engine to the wheels while the automatic relies on oil pressure and a fluid flywheel as a clutch between the engine and transmission to supply the drive. There is always a loss of energy because of the automatic set up which makes the manual better regarding fuel consumption.

[Ootohere]

lol,

"In general terms", "always", "in theory", well what about in Practice? Will it 'always'?

or might a sh1t3 driver of manual box cars, allways in the wrong gear, or no idea what gear to be in, or never uses overdrive,

be able to get a Auto to do more miles per gallon with the same sized engine when they drive an autobox ?

(Possibly not because they are just as liable to stick it in 3 as in D, or switch O/D off, because they dont know what it is for.)

There are some terrible drivers out there, whatever they drive...

You are all right,

a Manual should be, and is almost always more economic on fuel than an automatic.

Just it is not 'always' the case.

CVT's & Twin Clutches etc are coming on and changing all that.

Gearboxes to suit engines rather than just a second best option.

george

[seboni121]

lol if the same person drove both the auto and manual which one would bring the best mpg ? In real terms with the technology available now ? Manual 100% until the auto box develops further but at the moment this is not the case not in my opinion " the world " Edited 1 September, 2012 by seboni121

[cjb]

In general terms a manual will always, in theory, be more economical than an automatic. A manual transmission provides a more direct link via the manual clutch from the engine to the wheels while the automatic relies on oil pressure and a fluid flywheel as a clutch between the engine and transmission to supply the drive. There is always a loss of energy because of the automatic set up which makes the manual better regarding fuel consumption.

But ASG/DSG has no fluid flywheel/torque converter. This is why they get closer to manual MPG figures: there's still losses (and extra weight) though.

[seboni121]

But ASG/DSG has no fluid flywheel/torque converter. This is why they get closer to manual MPG figures: there's still losses (and extra weight) though.

Agree getting very close and will soon get there however the standard manual will move onto 100 mpg and auto boxes will always play catch up, it's the nature of the beast

[seboni121]

From what I've read the asg is not just close to but near as damn it the same mpg as the manual :0 so I retract the previous post and stand corrected

[raj55]

OK, I drive a Toyota Aygo with the MMT/2-tronic (semiautomatic) gear box. I guess it is similar to your ASG. As I understand, it is a manual gear box with electronic shifter/clutch that changes the gear. It has neutral (N), automatic Drive (E), reverse ® and M+ and M- (manual gear change) slots. It can be driven in both manual and automatic mode. My wife drives it in E (automatic) and I drive it in M+ and M- (that is manual mode). So how good is it? In automatic (E) mode the gear changes take time and can be felt as a slight jerk. Don't be in a hurry! You can pre help gear change by lifting your foot slightly off the accelerator, to make an earlier gear change possible, if you think it is taking its time. Very rarely there is a hesitation and it could chose a wrong gear and realise that and change again, giving rise to hesitancy and jerk, specially if the terrain suddenly changes from down hill to up hill. But my wife has got used to it and just loves it. I on my part haven't got the patience because I feel that in the E mode it should have changed the gear 5-10 seconds ago! Therefore, I drive it in M mode or manual. In that mode from rest, it automatically choses the first gear and after picking up speed I flick it towards M+ and the gear changes immediately to 2nd gear and with the next flick to third gear and so on, just like the manual gear shift but without the clutch, dead easy. Even during manual mode, as I slow down at traffic lights, the gear changes automatically to 2nd or first gear depending on the cars speed. So there is no need to shift the gear from 5th to 2nd, the cars speed does that for you. That is one gear change you do not have to worry about when slowing down or stopping even in manual mode! Nice! Are there any other odd things with this gear box then? Yes there are. It does not have "Park mode" like the true automatics; which means that even if you have parked it in neutral you have to apply your hand brake (just like a manual gear box. Remember this is a manual gear box with an electronic clutch and a shifter). On very steep slopes leave the gear in "R reverse and then shut the engine and apply hand brake, remove key. That locks the gear in reverse so well that no one can change it to neutral (don't tell the thieves that!) without inserting and turning the key two clicks (to connect the battery to the electronic gear shifter) before moving the lever to N (neutral); and then u can start your car. Uphill starts are like manual gear box, disengage handbrake as you start to roll, not before or u will roll backwards (just like manual gear). It is a fuel efficient gear box as u all allready know. On the whole it has been very reliable for us and we like it but there are people in the Aygo forum who have had problem with both manual gear box and clutch and 2-tronic semi auto gear box. Repairs are expensive. Go join and read. If we ever buy Citigo or Up in future, I am convinced that my wife is going to ask for the similar gear box i.e. ASG.

Edited 3 November, 2012 by raj55

[pumpsmynads]

Having driven an auto Citigo all I would say is definitely test drive it before buying. I know I just couldn't live with its hateful 'charms.'

[SECCY]

All depends on how you drive really. After driving one I know it's definitely not my cup of tea, but if you're used to driving at a steady pace and enjoy searching for those extra MPGs then it's not that bad. They don't feel like a traditional auto or a DSG.

[oldstan]

I had a go in one today. Just a a brief few miles round and about and down the dual carriageway for a few miles. Not jerky like the Honda i-shift. Not seamless transition through the gearbox and monotone engine note like the Honda Jazz CVT. Not super quick, versatile and almost undetectable shifts like the DSG. And obviously not like a Torque convertor auto either. You can definitely feel the changes up and down although no worse than most drivers let you feel manual gear changes, dependent on the care they take.

It's certainly better than changing gear if you need an auto. for medical or licence requirements or because you're no good at changing gear. But I can see most would want the manual for all the obvious reasons. I felt that you'd probably feel more in control with a manual but I can see you would get used to it in time. The lack of creep just needs getting used to and maneuvering back in to a gap was easy and smooth....not like the old DAF Variomatics :-)

Like the car very much though (in manual form) and the engine is plenty perky enough for my modest requirements but all that's been said before - I'll not add anything useful that hasn't been said before except that being used to the height of the Yeti and, to a lesser extent, the i10, which is quite high, it seems quite low....even with the seat set high. With dodgy joints that might be enough to stop me buying one but most would love it, I'm sure.

[raj55]

OK, I have three more comments here, regarding my earlier post (can't get the edit function to work in my computer).

(1) In the Toyota language the semi automatic gear is called MMT (multimode transmission) and the name that I used earlier, "2-tronic" is the nomenclature used by Peugeot107 and Citroen C1 for the same thing. Why? I don't know!

(2) The worst nightmare scenario with this MMT gear box hesitation is the busy round about, where you are just about to enter and it hesitates. BUT my wife has got into the habbit of waiting for the biggest slot before entering the roundabout. She has a lot of patience (which sometimes annoys the drivers behind her!).

(3) I use it in manual mode and escape all these irritations. So you could actually buy this ASG thing (if the cost is not prohibitive) and use it in manual or auto mode. The advantage being that you don't need clutch and can rest your leg and in long journeys can use the auto mode instead. Iam really not that much against it since I have a choice and it saves fuel compared to normal big automatic gear box.

[GeneralPurpose]

raj, thanks for your comments on the auto boxes. I suffered an injury this year which may affect the sort of car I buy in the near future. Auto would be ideal. The Citigo would be ideal and I'm keen to drive the ASG box before buying.

Oh...forgive me mentioning. But your security settings on your browser may be stopping you from accessing the edit function on this site. If you run 'NoScript' or 'Adblock' you will need to tell that program to 'allow all Briskoda' or the ip address for Briskoda depending which program you run. Failing that it may just be your general internet security level is set much too high in your browser settings. Hope that fixes it.

[Paul007]

I'd like to try one I think...just hope it doesn't lurch from one gear to the next like the offerings from PSA.