I was just reading a thread in the Octy section about cheap mods to the car and a thought struck me...

In photography I've been told several times to invest in the photographer first, lenses second and camera / equipment third.

Translate this to driving and, if I want to see benefits in my road safety / sense or driving ability / enjoyment, I should invest a bit of time money in getting me better experienced.

I passed my test over 20 years ago and, apart from a driver awareness course (SP30), ice had no updates / training.

What do people suggest? With rough costs / value for money, please.

When I lived in Worcester the County Council Road Safety Dept used to arrange a short "defensive driving" course that was free, though there might have been an age limit. Try emailing the Dept at County Hall.

There are sure to be branches of the IAM and RoSPA in your area, again County Hall will know. Some Groups do free lessons, other might expect you to join.

Some Driving Schools do offer Defensive Driving Courses but they aren't cheap.

You can do a lot yourself without any cost:

Think more about your journeys and how you plan them.

Read the road ahead of you; do you need to brake or could the car naturally slow down.

Think you have an egg under your accelerator foot; do you need to press it so hard?

Use the physical geography to take the car; going up hill a car will naturally slow down so if there is a bend or junction you might not need to brake.

Don't just look at the car in front, but look at the car 5 cars in front.

I can do the journey from Llanidloes to work in Ludlow at a maxidot average of around 50 mpg, but will do the 48 miles in just under an hour, so I'm not hanging about. Proves it can be done.

Watch and actually pay attention to some of the DVDs recomended in this very forum. In particular, the Roadcraft one is very strong on the "why we do the method" stuff IMO.

Watch and actually pay attention to some of the DVDs recomended in this very forum. In particular, the Roadcraft one is very strong on the "why we do the method" stuff IMO.

I'll look that one up. Thank you.

What do people suggest? With rough costs / value for money, please.

There are two main branches of advanced driving, that promoted by the DSA (via Daimond) and that promoted by the Police (Roadcraft). Diamond is really doing the stuff you were doing at DSA level with a lower tolerance for faults and the Roadcraft way is, imho, more advanced and forms the basis of the majority of "advanced" training and is the camp I sit in.

The main route is to join either IAM (http://www.iam.org.uk/drivers/motorists-courses/advanced-driving/motorists-skill-for-life ) or RoADAR (http://www.roadar.org/drivers/index.htm ) and do their course which is based around Roadcraft and will involve a number of drives with a volunteer observer who will coach you to test standard. IAM is widely recognised but there is some debate how the grades compare to RoADAR which is perceived as more challenging (and requires a retest every 3 years to maintain membership). Cost-wise, IAM is £139 for the Skills For Life course and RoADAR is a bit less as you pay the local group fee which is usually around the 20 quid mark and then the test fee which I think was around 50 quid. Once you pass, you then pay ~20 quid to RoADAR national to be a member and this covers the cost of your retest every three years. I've done both courses and they were pretty similar so I'd be happy to recommend either but the key is to get a group and then observer which suits your way of learning and ask lots of questions if you don't understand/believe something - a good observer should be able to give you a satisfactory answer, or find someone who can, rather than just say "it's that way because it's what you have to do".

Other routes to explore are through ADUK (http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/forum/index.php ) who have an informal mentoring system as well as arranging driving days where you can get to drive with people from a wide range of backgrounds who can give you feedback on your driving. These tend to be the cheapest way into advanced driving and (imho ) the mentors are all pretty good and enthusiastic drivers too.

If you're looking for more intense coaching, you can pay for time with RideDrive (http://www.ridedrive.co.uk/ ) or one of the HPC Gatekeepers (http://www.hpc.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=64 ) which will probably set you back around £150 for a half day or £250 for a full day, although if you share the day with others (which I recommend from a learning point of view), the costs can be shared. The downside, however, is that it's the equivalent of having a university professor teaching GCSE level so you may find other routes represent better value for money to instil the foundations.

There is also the self-study route watching the DVDs and reading the books recommended on here, but imho, having someone in the car to feedback how you are doing is invaluable and I would personally use these to reinforce rather than teach.

Enjoy!

Chris

You can do a lot yourself without any cost:

Think more about your journeys and how you plan them.

Read the road ahead of you; do you need to brake or could the car naturally slow down.

Think you have an egg under your accelerator foot; do you need to press it so hard?

Use the physical geography to take the car; going up hill a car will naturally slow down so if there is a bend or junction you might not need to brake.

Don't just look at the car in front, but look at the car 5 cars in front.

I think that I do most of that most of the time! But do I or is it just my perception?

Maybe RoSPA or IAM would help here? Which is better and why?

I don't drive fast more than occasionally: I'm happy driving at 60 on the open 'A' roads (where traffic permits) and driving for economy.

But I've never had a skid due to aqua planing or on ice (while driving) and I don't really know what 'defensive' driving is all about.

Would a skid pan, track day (with instruction) or other experience help smooth out my driving even more and make me safer in more scenarios?

What do people think?

I think that I do most of that most of the time! But do I or is it just my perception?

Maybe RoSPA or IAM would help here? Which is better and why?

I think it's definitely worth getting a second opinion - most of the associates who I've coached have come to the training as thoughtful, enthusiastic drivers and usually it's just a case of overlaying a bit of structure to what they do. Hopefully the IAM/RoSPA question is answered in my previous reply

But I've never had a skid due to aqua planing or on ice (while driving) and I don't really know what 'defensive' driving is all about.

Would a skid pan, track day (with instruction) or other experience help smooth out my driving even more and make me safer in more scenarios?

The concept of defensive driving simply means driving such that you have as much control of a situation as possible. My understanding is there isn't a set syllabus for a defensive course, but most will draw from Roadcraft. The question about skid pans and track days is an interesting one and I would guess the answer is "it depends". The biggest problem when a loss-of-control scenario occurs is the space and time required to recover it and I've always found air field days where the speeds are more real-world (yes I know Ken you've only ever skidded at low speeds :p ) are great for feeling what happens approaching, at and beyond the limit of grip. The course I went on also improved how I steered and my understanding of grip and tyres which could be translated to my road driving -> http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/car-control.html

Chris

The concept of defensive driving simply means driving such that you have as much control of a situation as possible. My understanding is there isn't a set syllabus for a defensive course, but most will draw from Roadcraft. The question about skid pans and track days is an interesting one and I would guess the answer is "it depends". The biggest problem when a loss-of-control scenario occurs is the space and time required to recover it and I've always found air field days where the speeds are more real-world (yes I know Ken you've only ever skidded at low speeds :p ) are great for feeling what happens approaching, at and beyond the limit of grip. The course I went on also improved how I steered and my understanding of grip and tyres which could be translated to my road driving -> http://www.donpalmer...ar-control.html

Chris

Agreed.

As a simple worked example, my sister has a habit of placing the nose of her car partially overlapping the tail of the one "in front but in the other lane" on roundabouts, and then complaining about "being cut up on roundbouts" when the inevitable happens and the other idiot (used advisedly) cuts a corner or drifts out. The defensive driving approach is to never put yourself in that position.

Agree with all that the others have said.

I would certainly suggest you get in touch with the Road Safety Dept at HWCC and see if they have anything to offer.

I preferred the RoSPA/RoADER course in Powys to the IAM in Worcester. They struck me as a bit "fuddy-duddy" However I also did a day course with a private company arranged by my employer in Worcester for all their employees that was very good.

I think you have taken the biggest step, in that you WANT to do something. Too many people (especially men) aren't willing to go there and accept that they might need a few pointers to improve their driving.

Of interest, where are you in Herefordshire?

Near Bromyard.

I'll look into RoSPA & IAM in this area as well as the County Council.

If you were a bit closer I'd have offered to take a drive with you, but Bromyard is more than an hour from home.

Know it quite well as my daughter has friends who live on the Downs.

Thank you. Very kind.

Wife works in Craven Arms. Is that more your part of the world. I'm up there occasionally teaching photography.

I live a bit further west than that, right in the middle of Wales, in Llanidloes, but work at Bromfield Signal Box, by Ludlow Racecourse. Have to drive through the Arms!