OK, I think I posted about this before, thought I had serious mechanical issue when I pulled up coming off a motorway in Germany and was greeted at sub 50 km/h at what sounded like wheel bearing collapsed.

Since then, we have done many more miles and the noise is now quite unbearable, as the rear tyres inside edges are quite seriously worn, showing signs of zigzagging, and to a much lesser extent the outer edges too.

Spoke to a respectable VW indy this morning and they suggested:

- bringing the car in, inspecting rear arm bushes, shocks and wheel bearings

- if the rear bushes are perished, replacing them with OEM ones. They quoted up to 2 hrs per bush (at £55/hr), so combined with OEM prices this could be very costly (I have seen these bushes for £50-60 a pair non-OEM, I can only guess OEM will be at least double that) plus looking at nearly £200 labour - less if rust does not present major time-consuming problems

- if shocks are shot - I know they might be, still original and feeling wallowy in the back, though the front is Bilstein B6 since last year so significantly better than original, now might be a good time to fit B6 in he rear too - this Indy is also a Bilstein distributor and they did recommend going down the B6 route. To fit them probably 1 hr labour, though I did the fronts myself and the rears are a piece of cake by comparison, so could save some cash there by diy-ing

- he also remarked the rear wheel bearings might be worn causing excessive toe-out, so will check. These are over £120-130 each from the main dealer, and can't imagine less than a couple for hours labour on the top.vThough could DIY too.

If all checks out OK in the rear, I'd be looking at laser alignment then 4x new 17" boots.

I am pretty confident I could DIY it all except rear bushes - anyone done this before??

So all in all, I could be looking at nearly a £grand for all this, which when the car is barely worth more than £2k makes me wonder if I am better off just chucking on some budget tyres every 15k miles instead until I clock up 150k and retire her.

Does anyone here have experience of strange tyre wear like me, any thoughts?

My rears have gone the same. Does make a right noise. Fingers crossed though when i have fitted the new suspension it will not happen again.

Well my approach will be to replace the rear arm bushes first and inspect the wheel bearings. Change wheel bearings if any looseness detectable.

Then focus on shocks. I have B6 at the front so might be installing B6 in the back too. I'll do as much DIY as I can as that's the only economical sense on a 10 year old car.

But first things first, bushes are getting overhauled first, at 112k miles they are bound to be rotten. The car handling has been feeling boat like again recently.

Then tracking and some new boots. John, are you going down the Bilstein B12 route or coilovers?

Have you decided on the tyres yet?

I read that non-directional tyres (Like my P7 Pirelli Cinturatos) are more prone to developing the droning noise than directional ones.

I am yet to read of anyone having this issue on Michelin tyres.

Dunlop/Pirelli seem to be the worst. So defo not picking them again.

The other "issue" is that on B5 platform cars rear axle "spec" is erring on toe-out. And that's non-adjustable on FWD too. Beats me! Possibly for better handling/ faster steering response. But on a barge I'd much rather have longer tyre life than snappy steering.

Have googled this, it seems like this saw tooth wear on the inside edges of rear tyres is something that crops up across most of the VW range, with Eos, Golfs and Passata all seeming to suffer from it, with VW dealers just shrugging their shoulders and saying "they all do that, sir", but it only seems to happen to some cars, with others being perfectly fine and not giving any tyre issues.

Nobody seems to gave pinned down the problem yet, with some people saying that a "really good" laser alignment can cure the problem, others that camber adjustment seems to be the key, others that the adjustment on the front tyres can cause it.

I think it's fair to say that nobody quite seems to be able to work this one out. Thankfully, I don't have the problem and checked today, and if anything, my rear tyres are wearing slightly more on the outside, but then they are 30k mile Neuton NT5000 budget tyres which have spent 20k on the front. I can honestly recommend these tyres as a very good budget option.

Are the rear wheel bearings on the Superb taper bearings? I would have thought that any bearing wear that results in tyre wearing like that would have sent the bearing into self destruct long ago, and would certainly be ultra noisy if you spin the wheel.

I know it's a long time ago, but I once had a pair of Pirellis that gave such odd behaviour, I vowed never to but a Pirelli again ..... and lt's face it, Lewis Hamilton can only get about 10 miles out of some of the Pirellis he puts on his motor

I am waiting on the Bilstein B12 kit to arrive, i hope it will be in the next few days.

Not sure on tyres as yet. I have Dunlop sport max on the front which seem quite good.

I may even change the wheels yet.

Have googled this, it seems like this saw tooth wear on the inside edges of rear tyres is something that crops up across most of the VW range, with Eos, Golfs and Passata all seeming to suffer from it, with VW dealers just shrugging their shoulders and saying "they all do that, sir", but it only seems to happen to some cars, with others being perfectly fine and not giving any tyre issues.

Nobody seems to gave pinned down the problem yet, with some people saying that a "really good" laser alignment can cure the problem, others that camber adjustment seems to be the key, others that the adjustment on the front tyres can cause it.

I think it's fair to say that nobody quite seems to be able to work this one out. Thankfully, I don't have the problem and checked today, and if anything, my rear tyres are wearing slightly more on the outside, but then they are 30k mile Neuton NT5000 budget tyres which have spent 20k on the front. I can honestly recommend these tyres as a very good budget option.

Are the rear wheel bearings on the Superb taper bearings? I would have thought that any bearing wear that results in tyre wearing like that would have sent the bearing into self destruct long ago, and would certainly be ultra noisy if you spin the wheel.

I know it's a long time ago, but I once had a pair of Pirellis that gave such odd behaviour, I vowed never to but a Pirelli again ..... and lt's face it, Lewis Hamilton can only get about 10 miles out of some of the Pirellis he puts on his motor

I jacked the car up today and checked the rear wheel bearing, tight as a duck's proverbial and quiet as it needs to be.

They are tapered based on what I saw on a drawing.

Very expensive too, so I won't be touching them. Might be a different story when loaded up, but this is impossible to prove and I am not willing to throw £250+ in parts at it to prove it. That's money much better spent on some rear Bilsteins! I tested the shocks today in the rear and the car does oscillate a couple of times, so they are pretty much shot. At the front where I have the Billies, it is positively overdamped - nice.

The rear axle is, contrary to what you will read on the internet - partly to blame the fact that 4-Motion Passats do have more sophisticated and adjustable rear suspension - on the Superb the rear suspension is non-adjustable for camber or toe. It is what it is. The default value is toe-out though as well as negative camber. With such a simple and brutal (let's face it, it's cheap) suspension, effectively as you load the car up on the rear axle, the toe-out reduces and converts to even more negative camber. I am not sure which one is worse for tyre wear - on the inside edges - but neither helps!

Then what happens is that if you do not rotate tyres, they will wear out and be noisy across 1/5th of the width. Annoying when you paid £130 for each one of them and there should be a good 10k miles left in them otherwise!

Attempted removing the rear axle bush carriers this evening but failed. Need a 21mm spanner to counteract the torque applied to a 21 mm ratchet/socket. Not enough space to fit a socket on the outboard side, the sill is too close. More WD40 soaking overnight, and will try again tomorrow after work with a borrowed spanner. The bad news, after spending some time studying the car from underneath is that the mid silencer seems to be corroded to hell. Where the pipe comes out of it there seems to be a hole developing... But I guess, it is in it's 11th year after all....

I worked for nearly 10 years at a VW dealership and it's most likely the rear shocks causing your problem the rear sub-frame bush will contribute to the worn tyres but only very little. the wheel bearing noise heard is the stepped pattern on the inner edge of the tyre fighting against the camber on the road. the best way to check if it is a wheel bearing is drive at approx 20mph and sway slowly left to right transferring the weight onto wheels, if the noise happens when you sway left it will be the right wheel bearing and vice-verse as the bearing gets loader when the weight is off of it. but i would go with changing the shocks 1st.

I worked for nearly 10 years at a VW dealership and it's most likely the rear shocks causing your problem the rear sub-frame bush will contribute to the worn tyres but only very little. the wheel bearing noise heard is the stepped pattern on the inner edge of the tyre fighting against the camber on the road. the best way to check if it is a wheel bearing is drive at approx 20mph and sway slowly left to right transferring the weight onto wheels, if the noise happens when you sway left it will be the right wheel bearing and vice-verse as the bearing gets loader when the weight is off of it. but i would go with changing the shocks 1st.

Appreciate the advice chris22b.

I had a good look at the axle bush and don't see any cracks in its rubber. I might still change them as I have the new ones. But shocks definitely on the shopping list.

Are the upper rear shock bolts accessible from within the boot of the car or within the wheel arch? Does someone have the torque settings?

I have ordered some new rear Bilstein B6 shocks! Then we get tracking done, new tyres, then off across Europe again!

The bad news, after spending some time studying the car from underneath is that the mid silencer seems to be corroded to hell. Where the pipe comes out of it there seems to be a hole developing... But I guess, it is in it's 11th year after all....

After seeing Mk1 Octy's exhaust rust through from the outside, I decided it was worth to clean and zinc up entire exhaust and any rusting bolts / mounts on the underbody. This was ~4 years ago, this year I had to top it up as last winter turned out to be quite salty and corossive. But the result is underbody in much better shape, with the exhaust in similar condition after 7 years as on the Octy after 3 years, ie nothing to worry about. Cost of zinc spray was under £50, plus perhaps 2h total worth of effort over the 7 years.

I use LiquiMoly zinc spray, but anything that's mostly zinc and can take 500degC will do just fine. Perhaps it's worth considering for your car.

Edited 5 May, 201313 yr by dieselV6

Appreciate the advice chris22b.

I had a good look at the axle bush and don't see any cracks in its rubber. I might still change them as I have the new ones. But shocks definitely on the shopping list.

Are the upper rear shock bolts accessible from within the boot of the car or within the wheel arch? Does someone have the torque settings?

the upper shock bolt from memory are accessible from the wheel arch i'm pretty sure its just a case of pulling the arch liner down a bit. i'm not sure what the torque setting is but if you want i'll have a look once in work in the morning but i'm sure FT ( effing tight ) is tight enough.

Been to the VW specialist. They said rear bushes are absolutely fine, rear wheel bearings too. Rear shocks gone and they reckon that's why rear tyres worn inside edges and tyre tread blocks feathered. As I changed my front upper arms a few months ago I decided to get the tracking done. It went wrong... The adjustment nuts seized, so they had to replace the tie rods and the inner tracking arms. Then 4 wheel laser alignment was done, and I was made £300+ poorer within a few hours (but the garage was very fair they only charged an hour's labour to replace the parts. Most expensive tracking job I have ever had! But I suppose now that part of the system is renewed, I should never have to have it changed again.

Next day I had 4x new Barum tyres fitted (made by Continental). So far so good. Car is going straight and is once again quiet!

The new rear Bilstein B6 shocks are on the way, hope to get them tomorrow, and fit them one evening, as we are off to the continent on Saturday to give them a good bedding-in! So overall nearly £900 poorer this week on the basis of the lovely old Superb , and that's before I even put some fuel in it! Can't wait to get the new shocks on there

I hope they set the raised toe correctly - standard alignment rigs can't do this and most operators (including some VAG dealers) don't understand the need for it. It would have been preferable to replace the rear dampers before alignment.

Have a good trip - no rubbish fuel to destroy the VP44...

rotodiesel.

Rear dampers fitted last night. Took me just over an hour for both sides. Car sits on the road very nicely now. This is a vw specialist so hope they set it correctly. But anyway the car cost me nearly £900 this week, mot and road tax in the next 2 months too, so I'm starting to think I should have had that E class company car.... But, I hope I can get another two - three years out of the car now before its truly done its job.

I hope they set the raised toe correctly - standard alignment rigs can't do this and most operators (including some VAG dealers) don't understand the need for it. It would have been preferable to replace the rear dampers before alignment.

Have a good trip - no rubbish fuel to destroy the VP44...

rotodiesel.

i was quite shocked at the amount of hunter alignment centres and vag specialists i called to ask about the raised toe setting and were clueless as to what i was talking about, although one specialist stated that its basically setting the toe with the wheels off the ground?!

i still dont really understand it to be honest.

What i don't understand is why would you have to check the toe with the wheels raised in the air, i must admit we never done this when i worked for VW in the 10 years i was there. :think:

Is the raised toe setting to do with setting the relative height of the tie-rod end to ensure that with suspension travel up and down the toe changes within the acceptable range (bump steer)?

More or less.

The B5.5 is unusual in that the plane in which the inner wishbone pivots are located is not coincident with the inner ball joints on the rack ends. This makes the toe setting change with suspension deflection. This is OK as long as the change is correctly defined around the neutral (unloaded) suspension position.

In a fit of Teutonic overdrive, the B5.5 designers overcame this problem by making the toe setting adjustable in 2 ways on each side of the vehicle. The conventional adjustment sets the toe when the suspension is in the neutral position using the threaded track rod ends and locknuts - as on any other car. The "raised toe" setting is performed with the suspension elevated and held in a specific position by means of a VAG fixture. The toe is then set by adjusting the height of the track rod end ball pin in the knuckle arm. The pinch bolt is slackened (if it's not rusted solid) and the bolt on top of the ball pin is slackened. After tapping down the ball pin, the bolt can then be tightened progressively to raise the ball pin until the specified raised toe value is reached. The pinch bolt is then tightened and the top bolt lightly tightened.

The following I found somewhere on the Internet - it defines the job fairly well:

Toe is adjustable, but there are actually two different toe settings and you have to use the correct procedure or you'll get yourself into trouble. Ordinary toe, which Audi called "unladen toe," is measured in the usual way. If any corrections are needed, they must be made at the inboard end of the tie rod, not the outboard end. Both ends of the tie rod are adjustable, but the outer end is not for ordinary toe adjustments. It changes the angle between the tie rod and steering arm, which Audi refers to as "raised toe." Adjusting this second toe angle requires a special tools (VAG 1925 & VAG 1925/3) and a special procedure.

To check or adjust raised toe, the VAG 125 tool is attached to the subframe. The vehicle is then raised and lowered on the VAG 1925/3 adapter tool. The tool holds the suspension in a slightly raised position so toe can be measured again. There should be 12 degrees more toe-in on each side than before. If not, the outer tie rod end needs to be adjusted until the specified difference in toe readings is obtained.

I think he got the tool numbers wrong - in my book, it's VAS 125.

This suspension is not suited to monkeys - or most VAG dealers who don't understand how it should be set.

A good, interested Independent is the way to get it right. These cars eat tyres if it's wrong.

rotodiesel.

Thank you roto. I will check with the Indy who did my laser alignment if they have adopted this approach. Though something tells me not.

Had my tyres rebalanced today, now seem ok. Apparently weights had come off (within a day of fitting!). I bet it was just a bodge stick weights onto dirty alloy and hope they stay there kind of a job on Saturday. Had that before.

Edited 16 May, 201313 yr by oh_superb