Greenline engine failure.

[Noggythenog]

I feel i should post this up incase anyone else has a similar problem.no result yet but ill update.

I was 350 miles into a 500 mile journey with air con on & using cruise control at 60mph when i started smelling a chemical smell in the cabin.Not sure if it was coming from outside i switched off the air con & opened the windows.It wasnt from outside so i kept the air con off.The engine was still running as normal & there were no dash warning lights.

Approaching my turn off, i dabbed the brake to disengage cruise control then came down to 4th gear & then 3rd as i rounded the tight cornered off ramp & i lost power & could hear heavy knocking/rattling from the engine.I selected neutral & coasted to safety.There was a bad smell again in the cabin, i thought the thing was going on fire any minute, now the smell was more sulphurous.(The knocking was the same noise that ive always had with this car when pulling away in first gear on cold start ups)

After letting the engine cool a little i popped the bonnet, checked the water & oil & they were both ok.I attempted a start up & the engine was rocking back & forth in the bay with the rev counter bouncing up & down by about 1000 rpm from the start position.

RAC attended, plugged in diagnostics which showed no errors.

The car is with the local Skoda dealer now, they say it's one of the cylinders & definately mechanical & they are trying to get help from skoda technical.The cylinder is forcing smoke through the rocker cover.They dont know much else at present.

The car had just done 25000 miles & was serviced by skoda 5000 miles ago.

I've always felt there was something up with the car as from time to time it becomes more powerful & will give power smoother & further through the rev range.Ive informed skoda who said there was nothing wrong & most likely the temp & pressure sensors that i've had replaced but i have a feeling the car has never been right.

Anyway ill update when i find out more.

Cheers

Fras

[bluecar1]

cylinder forcing smoke through rocker cover?

 

hmm

 

old tech by any chance, cam cover I believe its called as it is a overhead cam not "old tech" overhead valve" engine with push rods and rockers

 

 

anyway now I have finished nit picking

 

that sounds fairly terminal, rings gone (which would likely of scored and destroyed the bores, or the top of the piston possibly melted and holed (seen it several engines over the years)

 

both of which pretty much mean new engine

 

worrying as I have same car (GL II) at 21k , will be interested what happens

 

first GL II I have heard suffer anything other than the DPM sensors

[thebeats19]

Just out of interest, how many miles do you have to do to see the mpg improve?? i have just picked my GL 2 estate up and the figures aint great!

[bluecar1]

gradual improvement up to 10-15k depending on use

 

first 1000 miles its not great as engine very tight,

 

don't be afraid to give it a bit of loud peddle, just don't thrash the rear off it, don't change up before about 2k rpm or you will cause the engine to labour as the rpm will fall below 1500

 

drive it normally, just try not to go over 3k rpm to often, but if it needs a bit of loud peddle to join some traffic give it some, but once in the traffic and up to speed ease off etc

 

aircon and heat take its toll on mpg, I seem to lose 10-15mpg with aircon

 

heat / cold is double edged, cold causes long worm up time and more often regens, but if long runs work ok, hot weather reduces warm up times bit engine is not as efficient

 

what sort of mpg you seeing?

[thebeats19]

So far got 53mpg over about 280 miles, 

 

got 62mpg on a 30 trip from back from work today, i have just been driving it normally, just trying to get used to the gearing as i often loose the revs and it dies! 

but i am coming from a Mk1 fabia vrs which pulled like a train in just about any gear from most speeds!

[xman]

first GL II I have heard suffer anything other than the DPM sensors

 

Dempsek had a duff engine as I'm sure have others.

[jankph]

From a fellow GL II driver, thanks for the heads up. My GL has done 29K miles (5K by me, bought it used) and is still running fine. Mpg is 70. And yes, as the beats noted, it does take a while to get used to the gearing; as bluecar says, never change under 2000rpm, preferably at or around 2500rpm, that seems to make for ther smoothest shift. With my old 1.4 TDI I could take off in 2nd gear at slow speeds at intersections without problems, with the GL that is nearly impossible, and more often than not I forget, and attract some loud honks from behind.

[Noggythenog]

Well im not sure what to do now as i was hoping this car was going to be a long term keeper & it's 3 year warranty runs out in April.

Regarding the apparent increase in power symptoms that ive been getting now & again which skoda didnt really take seriously the symptoms are as follows & i wonder if anyone else has felt anything like this:-

I had owned the car for about 1 year & i gave it a good wash one day & then went out in it to the shops, as soon as i had left the street i noticed that the car felt much more powerful.After getting used to the quite flat power over the previous year i was quite surprised.I can only liken it to feeling more like my previous seat leon 1.9 tdi, not as quick but the delivery of the power was similar & i could feel the engine was eager under the bonnet & pulling.I was also getting power higher up the rev range.It felt just as good on my return journey.i almost felt that it had finally run in & some kind of engine management system was releasing extra power but i dont think that system even exists.

The next day the car was back to its usual flat self.

I thought i must have been imagining things so carried on, about a week later it did the same & it has done the same periodicaly ever since but as i say skoda claimed there was nothing wrong with it & theres no pattern to when it will happen so pretty hard prove/disprove but i would know whether another Greenline 2 felt the same if i had a drive of one.

[bluecar1]

wonder if it is a problem I haven't seen since pug/citroen XUD series engines

 

oil vapour being ingested into the engine then used as fuel so it overfuels and you get an increase in power even if you take you foot off the loud peddle

 

on the XUD it used to cause run-away on the engine until it destroyed itself,

 

whats the oil usage been like?

[Noggythenog]

The oil has been ok,ive never needed to top it up between services.

When the car was running more powerful it felt good, kinda like what i would have expected from it & it was very smooth & controlled, i wouldnt say it felt like it was over running or anything.it was like i had just had it chipped.

Regards the knocking/chapping/rattling noise - these engines are always described as being noisy & mine has always done this from new but because the noise was the same noise that i heard when it broke down im now curious as to whether mine should have been chapping so much.-it would only happen in 1st gear, only on cold start up at the start of the day on its first journey of the day but it was a very pronounced & loud chapping & so bad that i used to get embarrassed about it when pulling out of the street & it wouldnt matter how gently i pulled away either.after a short drive i could then pull away in 1st gear without any of this rattle,just normal engine noise.

Does everyone else with greenlines suffer this same noise???

Edited 14 July, 2013 by Noggythenog

[bluecar1]

sounds pretty much like mine,

 

reminds me of the old montego diesel a mate of mine used to have 20 years ago, one of the first direct injection engines

 

the noise reminds me of a petrol engine pinking

[Noggythenog]

Thanks for your help in comparing mr bluecar1, apart from that my mpg isnt really a good comparable as everyone seems to get such differing results depending on their style & typical drives but for what it's worth id say i generally get 50mpg out of a full tank or roughly 500 miles.because i only drive 11 miles to work on a roads & the rest is back & forward to town a few miles at a time.

On a long motorway run at 70mph my guage indicates about 63mpg.

I can only ever achieve 70 + mpg thrugh much planning & coasting in neutral at every opportunity.

Ill wait & see what skoda say for themselves next week & update.

In the meantime ive got a hire car skoda rapid 1.6 tdi.im not keen on the rapid but the engine is stonkingly good in it.

[Guest]

Noggy, sorry to hear of your problem. The GL11 is an excellent motor and few have ever had a problem of any kind.

 

It does sound, as the garage is saying, that you have a mechanical problem though. However, I doubt it is directly connected to your sporadic power fluctuations, but may have influenced what has happened. I'd bet the power fluctuations are due to a faulty sensor or poor connection to one of them. It's not too uncommon. Air mass sensor was the last bad connection I found on a car giving the same symptons you describe.

 

From your description your engine sounds incredibly noisey. It should not be embarrassingly so. This points to some malady that has inflicked you engine from new I'd say. My PD engined 1422cc 3 pot engine was noisey by modern standards but not like you describe. Your CR 1.2 is in fact (or should be!) a quieter engine than the PD engine. In fact, they all get quieter as the miles go on for all sorts of reasons and when I sold my PD, it was very sweet indeed, sounding great! All the GL11 engines I've driven have been quieter than my PD engine though.

 

Again, from your description it sounds like (as bluecar is saying) you have a broken piston ring or piston, or a damaged valve. The techs will sort it and it'll be good as new. The only other thing I'd say is that the majority of issues like this result from the car "coming from the factory" with the problem. Sometimes this only manifests itself over time. Good luck and let us know what the techs find.

[mrgf]

I have the older Greenie, and had trouble first with the cylinder head, then the turbo, THEN, the whole engine! The head was replaced at about two years old, then, the turbo, at almost three, then the day after I got it back, the engine fried itself!  All replaced under warranty but its worrying as it is now 3.5 years old and at around 50,000 miles, so I hope all is well.  

My dealer tells me they replace about three engines a year, on average, which sounds low but if every dealer has the same amount, its still a fair few engines.

[Noggythenog]

Ive given the dealer a quick call during my lunch hour and they advise that they have taken off the Head & inspected the engine and there is no sign of any mechanical damage.

 

Their words were that they have been advised to replace one of the injectors and they are waiting on it to arrive, they'll then rebuild the engine and fingers crossed it's tickety boo.

 

With the injector being the culprit, could this indeed tie in with my symptoms of intermittent power, ie - if it had been faulty from new could it have restricted the power through the rev range & then sometimes started working again giving me the full power?.Or do injectors either work or not work with no inbetween?

 

Also is there anything that i should be on the look out for with the dealer as in could there likely have been more damage caused by this failing injector?

[Guest]

Generally, injectors tend to work or not. Sometimes the solenoid becomes sticky and it can fire intermittently but that's not the norm. The impedance of the injector can also change with use, or even come wrong from the factory which can make it perform incorrectly and make the engine noisey. It will without doubt have had some effect on performance as the engine sensors will have been compensating for the lower power from that cylinder. Just got to wait and see what transpires. Once the head was taken off your car, the techs would have checked for head, valve and valve guide damage, also cylinder damage. The cylinder head gasket itself will have been carefully examined for signs of leakage. Not all cylinder head gasket leaks result in coolant contamination of the oil or oil in the coolant. If no scoring of the bore then it's a pretty safe bet that the piston and rings are ok on that cylinder. Let us all know if you can what happens. Good luck.

[Noggythenog]

with an injector the suspected culprit does anyone have any idea what the Chemical smell through the vents about 5 mile prior failure would have been???

[Phil-E]

Normally a sulphur smell indicates a battery that is being over-charged.

 

Phil

[Noggythenog]

The smell was only sulphurus after stopping the car after the malfunction but the earlier smell wasnt sulphurus but more of a sharp smell, chemically, not rotten eggs, hard to remember now really.

 

Iforgot to say in my earlier posts that i've had the exhaust temperature sensor and the exhaust pressure sensor malfunction during my ownership of the car, seemingly because they were just dodgy but now im thinking were they working overtime with the dodgy injector.

 

easy to look too much into things i know but worth mentioning all the same.

[Noggythenog]

Progress report so far - The dealer rebuilt the engine with the new injector fitted, they reckon the knocking noise has stopped. they took it out for a test drive but it had no power.(it was the guy on the desk, not the mechanic i spoke to).

 

Thinking they meant maybe a little down on power I asked if they wanted me to take it for a spin as if anyone knows what it is usually like it's me.The guy said no as it has hardly any power & they now need to try figure out why as the mechanic maybe missed something when rebuilding it.

 

Still no dashboard warning lights.

 

He started to say stuff about DPF (seems to be textbook answer for everything these days) which i politely suggested wasnt likely the candidate imo as i have never once had the DPF light on & i often experience the car actively regenerating, always have, plus i had just done about 1000 miles in the week prior the breakdown.

 

So i continue to wait but im not inspired with confidence over the whole thing at the moment.

[xman]

The smell was only sulphurus after stopping the car after the malfunction

 

 

Lots of neat fuel in the catalytic convertor and/or DPF -> H2S Hydrogen Sulphide (rotten eggs) - if it gets too strong, you suddenly stop smelling it, then you die....(seriously)

Edited 20 July, 2013 by xman

[harry vederci]

The smell was only sulphurus after stopping the car after the malfunction but the earlier smell wasnt sulphurus but more of a sharp smell, chemically, not rotten eggs, hard to remember now really.

 

I was getting an odd smell a couple of weeks ago, sharp and kind of vinegar like. Was yours like that?

HV

[Noggythenog]

I was getting an odd smell a couple of weeks ago, sharp and kind of vinegar like. Was yours like that?

HV

Thats the smell, well it fits the bill anyway!!!

Never ever smelled it in the previous 25 k miles then suddenly 5 miles before failure i smelled it.

[mikey vrs]

I wonder if the "technician" has got the valve timing wrong?

[harry vederci]

Thats the smell, well it fits the bill anyway!!!

Never ever smelled it in the previous 25 k miles then suddenly 5 miles before failure i smelled it.

 

It comes and goes in my car, I haven't smelled it for a couple of weeks now but your experience has me worried.  Has the garage confirmed any link between the appearance of the odd smell and the engine failure?

 

HV