Hi all,

 

I've been reading through this forum for a while now but can't seem to find a solution to the problems I'm having. The car in question is a 56 plate Fabia 1.2 Ambiente.

 

I've had the car since 2008 and had no problems at all until December 2011, when the battery died. I had it replaced; a few weeks later it died again. The guy I bought the battery from was extremely unhelpful (avoid Startrite in Nottingham), so another local garage looked it over for me and concluded I must have left a light or something on (very sure I hadn't).

 

Over the next 18 months the car failed to start once every few months; every time the garage/AA told me there was nothing wrong and that I must have left something on (seriously, I am not leaving stuff on. I am so incredibly obsessive about turning everything off).

 

In May/June this year, car failed to start twice within a couple of weeks, and seeing as my friends and neighbours are all sick of jump starting me, I decided to have the battery replaced and the car serviced. Everything is peachy, according to the professionals.

 

Car has since failed to start 4 times. The alternator has been tested at high and low revs and is definitely charging the battery, and the draw on the battery always tests under 0.03A with the engine off. No modifications to the car, original stereo, no satnav or bluetooth car-phone-thingy. I have even bought a small solar panel to trickle charge the battery while the car isn't in use. If I use the car regularly (at least every other day) then it seems to work ok, but if I leave it for more than 3 or 4 days, it won't start.

 

Exact symptoms: put the key in and turn it, lights on the dash come on as normal. Turn the key, absolutely nothing happens. It doesn't even try to start. Headlights work but are dim. Tested the battery last night at 7.44V.

 

I've called my garage again today, they gave me the number for an auto electrician who, it turns out, is currently on holiday.

 

So, two things - any suggestions as to what I should be looking for, or asking the auto electrician to look for? And can anyone recommend an auto electrician in or around Nottingham who could be available before the middle of next week? My car is currently lifeless on the drive.

 

Thanks for reading
Tanya

 

One possible explanation for your troubles is that you do only very short journeys each time you start the car.  How many miles is the average journey?

Have a squint around when its dark. I'm thinking something like the boot/hatchback load area lights not going off with the lid down.Probably easiest to check with a rear seat down. Had this exact problem on a Vauxhall Cavalier I once had.

Good luck.

And also the glove box light, there was also a thread about someone fitting a different radio/cd player which was wired incorrectly and was staying powered up thus running the battery down.

 

One of my cars only does short distances but has never failed to start even in winter, what is the AH rating of your current battery.

 

DB.

Hi guys, thanks so much for your replies!

 

Wino - I do tend to do short journeys, however on 27th Sept I drove around 100 miles (Notts to Gloucester), 30th Sept I drove back again. Used the car for short journeys Tuesday 1st Oct (1.5 miles there, 1.5 miles back) and Thursday 3rd (>0.5 miles there, same back), by Tuesday 8th car was dead on the drive.

 

ilikeradios - I took the parcel shelf out specially so I could keep an eye on the boot light, as my aunt had that problem on her Golf!! It definitely goes out, every single time. I even check out of the bedroom window most nights to see if there's any light coming from the car.

 

mogwye - Glove box light also goes out, tested that by closing it slowly and seeing it go off. I've also seen a couple of threads where similar problems turned out to be due to new radios etc but I still have the original stereo and haven't got anything else extra fitted (bluetooth car kits etc). Battery is an 075 Katana, 60Ah.

 

Thanks again for your help!
Tanya

I'd think that all four of the short journeys you mention would have failed to replenish the starting energy used from the battery.  It should have started the week fully charged though after your longer journeys, and at 0.03A quiescent it shouldn't have got so low so soon if everything (batt and alt) is healthy. 

 

If the very short journeys are the norm, and the longer ones a rarity, you may be damaging batteries by sulphation, which happens when lead acid batteries are run down to a very low state of charge. I think this would decrease the maximum capacity, so even after longer journeys you wouldn't have as much charge stored as when the battery was new. If an auto-electrician gives a second opinion that there are no charging faults you may do well to invest in a battery charger, and hook it up once a week to get/keep your next battery full.

 

In my experience the little 'Maplin'-type solar panels are horribly ineffective, like 0.01A output on a good day. Seriously, measure it. Was the 0.03A measured with the solar charger connected or not? 

Hi again Wino,

 

I'd say I do longer journeys twice a month, most of the time it's 2-3 miles. This battery is only 4 months old, could I really have damaged it that badly in such a short time?? I've had 3 different AA men, the guy at the battery shop and my normal garage all tell me there's no fault with the battery, the alternator is charging fine and the draw is not excessive.

 

The 0.03A draw was measured without the solar panel connected; but surely the draw is what's coming out of the battery not what's going in?

 

Thanks,
Tanya

If you'd measured the draw while the solar panel was producing current, during the daytime, it would have cancelled out some of the 'real' draw and given a falsely low reading, by the amount that the panel was generating. At night you would have seen a slightly higher draw as the panel wouldn't be pushing any current the other way.

 

But you didn't. So forget that.

 

Not sure about the battery damage theory TBH.  Maybe hook up a voltmeter to a cigarette lighter plug so you can monitor the battery voltage easily every time you get into the car.  The voltage after the battery has been idle for a while is a good indicator of its state of charge.  Here's a graph from Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lead-acid_voltage_vs_SOC.PNG

As before, what is the battery rated at in AH ?

 

DB.

See post #5.

Had a problem like this luckily caught it before it caused me problems. My light in the glovebox wouldn't go out when shut. I noticed it one night when driving it were lighting up the passengers footwell.

 

I have just removed the bulb.

Another one for not short trips. My daily use is about 1.5 mile to park ,dog walk . less than mile to Asda . 1.5 mile to local garage. Quarter mile home . That's four starts in about three miles of usually low speed driving. Car gets occasional 10-20 mile run .Haven't had any starting problems doing that for past three years .Last time I fitted new battery ,i was concerned with a spark when I connected it, so I checked . At connection , there's a moderate current which drops to something small ( 30 mA sounds familiar), so I was re assured all was well . But mine is a Classic ,diesel with a bigger battery and little electrical frills . I'd suggest a bad battery connection ,except you say when problems ,battery voltage is low (7.74v), so only cause seems like a drain . Might be worth process of elimination by removing power to or bulbs from things like boot /glovebax light , interior light and see if problem occurs . Drastically ,you might have to identify which circuits are live when ignition is off and eliminate those first. And if car lifeless, due to battery - beg borrow buy/steal a charger and get some charge back in battery. Fastest way to kill a lead acid battery is to leave it flat. Meantime, if you can't trace fault- dissconnect EARTH ( NOT +VE) side each night .

( Techie thing ,though it sounds like you are electrically aware , is that earth side connected to body . Spanner on earth hits car body - no problemos. Spanner on +ve hitscar body with earth connected =wielded very hot spanner ,possibly expolding battery ,certainly knackered and frazzled fingers. )

Wino, thanks for the clarification re the solar panel, makes total sense! Not sure how I'd go about hooking up my multimeter through the cigarette lighter to keep regular tabs on the voltage, it's just a basic one.

 

s0niX, thankyou for the suggestion but I've definitely checked the glove box light and it's out! I might take the bulb out anyway just to be safe, it can't hurt can it.

 

VWD, thanks for the support re journey length - I know plenty of other people who use their cars like I do, and haven't had any problems. I've considered going through that process of elimination but it just sounds incredibly daunting: change one thing, leave the car 3-4 days then see if it works or not, risking being left with a dead car... repeat to infinity. My nerves couldn't take the stress!

 

I know it sounds like I must be leaving something on, but I really do take such care over making sure nothing is left on. I'm getting to my wits end with this fault. My personal theory is that there's an intermittent fault/short circuit/whatever with something electrical, so that every now and then the draw is actually higher than what it's been measured as by the garage/AA. I'll give the AA another call on Saturday morning and get the car started and taken for a good run... in the meantime I'm checking out the autotrader website for a new car, as I think getting this fixed is going to be a needle-in-a-haystack job and I don't have the time or money to get to the bottom of it myself :(

 

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate the time and thought you've put into your replies
Tanya

"My personal theory is that there's an intermittent fault/short circuit/whatever with something electrical, so that every now and then the draw is actually higher than what it's been measured as by the garage/AA"

 

That's a very good idea.  I've heard of problems with parts of the loom in the scuttle area causing trouble, particularly if the drains get blocked and water backs up in there.

Might be worth deliberately soaking that area while watching the current draw?

Wino, thanks for the clarification re the solar panel, makes total sense! Not sure how I'd go about hooking up my multimeter through the cigarette lighter to keep regular tabs on the voltage, it's just a basic one.

 

s0niX, thankyou for the suggestion but I've definitely checked the glove box light and it's out! I might take the bulb out anyway just to be safe, it can't hurt can it.

 

VWD, thanks for the support re journey length - I know plenty of other people who use their cars like I do, and haven't had any problems. I've considered going through that process of elimination but it just sounds incredibly daunting: change one thing, leave the car 3-4 days then see if it works or not, risking being left with a dead car... repeat to infinity. My nerves couldn't take the stress!

 

I know it sounds like I must be leaving something on, but I really do take such care over making sure nothing is left on. I'm getting to my wits end with this fault. My personal theory is that there's an intermittent fault/short circuit/whatever with something electrical, so that every now and then the draw is actually higher than what it's been measured as by the garage/AA. I'll give the AA another call on Saturday morning and get the car started and taken for a good run... in the meantime I'm checking out the autotrader website for a new car, as I think getting this fixed is going to be a needle-in-a-haystack job and I don't have the time or money to get to the bottom of it myself :(

 

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate the time and thought you've put into your replies

Tanya

 

Do you park on grass at home? 

Hiya!

 

Wino, I had a good look at the weekend and can't find any sign of water ingress, however I did clear all the leaves and rubbish out of the drainage channels

 

s0niX, I don't park on grass, but my drive is quite sloped... not sure if it makes a difference that the car's always pointing downhill?!

 

So, developments over the weekend. I got the AA man out on Saturday morning, the battery was at 2.5V. 2.5!! The draw was somewhat erratic but never higher than 0.1A, which the AA guy said was acceptable. His opinion was that the battery could be faulty - his fancy machine said it was fine, but he said he'd known batteries to test as "good" but actually be faulty. Bad luck having 2 faulty batteries in a row eh! So then I took it out for a nice long drive to get it charged back up. In order to test the battery I've disconnected it and am taking regular readings to see whether it's holding charge. So far it's dropped from 12.76V to 12.68V in 48 hours; Wikipedia tell me that this is fine. I'm going to continue to monitor it for another 2 days and see how it goes.

 

If everything seems ok with with battery then, I'll connect it back up - I've already disconnected the boot light, the glove box light and procured a battery charger, in preparation for phase 2 testing!

 

Thanks again for all your help!
Tanya

Hiya!

 

Wino, I had a good look at the weekend and can't find any sign of water ingress, however I did clear all the leaves and rubbish out of the drainage channels

 

s0niX, I don't park on grass, but my drive is quite sloped... not sure if it makes a difference that the car's always pointing downhill?!

 

So, developments over the weekend. I got the AA man out on Saturday morning, the battery was at 2.5V. 2.5!! The draw was somewhat erratic but never higher than 0.1A, which the AA guy said was acceptable. His opinion was that the battery could be faulty - his fancy machine said it was fine, but he said he'd known batteries to test as "good" but actually be faulty. Bad luck having 2 faulty batteries in a row eh! So then I took it out for a nice long drive to get it charged back up. In order to test the battery I've disconnected it and am taking regular readings to see whether it's holding charge. So far it's dropped from 12.76V to 12.68V in 48 hours; Wikipedia tell me that this is fine. I'm going to continue to monitor it for another 2 days and see how it goes.

 

If everything seems ok with with battery then, I'll connect it back up - I've already disconnected the boot light, the glove box light and procured a battery charger, in preparation for phase 2 testing!

 

Thanks again for all your help!

Tanya

 

To see if it is the battery that isn't holding charge why don't you charge it up, then remove the wires from both terminals - See if it still discharges.