Octavia DSG Estate 2.0, 2007 gearbox, flywheel noise..?

[Stephen00]

Hi, 

 

I think there is something up with my beloved Octy,... I hope its not serious. 

 

It's not a Kev'd up VRS, It's a humble 2.0 DSG TDI estate and I love it to bits, but there is a strange sound coming from what I believe is the DSG. I don't drive it hard.   

 

It started with a louder than usual clatter on start up which seems to have stopped now. It was so loud it made a pedestrian jump. Now its starts smoothly 97% of the time, but I don't know if this is related to the next symptoms. Idle sound hums away, no real noise. 

 

About 5 days ago I was travelling along at around 30mph in town and I noticed a clattering sound. No dash lights came on, no shaking or juddering through the car or steering wheel. Just audible. Then it went away as quick as it started. In reverse once it made the same sound, but now that has subsided. 

 

I now notice the same regular metal clattering sound on braking/deceleration, it only lasts until the 2nd gear shifts to 1st. Then I hear it again on accelerating up through to 2nd and 3rd. 

 

Also I notice that whilst reaching 5th and 6th gear its sounds different in that the engine sound seems more peaky or harder.

 

There is no judder as I said and it seems to shift up and down seamlessly as always.

 

I have checked the oil and it was on minimum to middle and I did top that up with the right stuff and it still sounds the same.

 

Idle sounds ok, no smoke out the back.. and, well it could be my imagination, there seems to be a very very slight loss of power in 4-6th gear phase, or that could be me not accelerating too hard until the garage appointment. 

 

I have booked it into my local garage next Monday for them to look at. Hopefully they will hear what I hear.

 

I thought it could be the Flywheel.. It has 75k on the clock. It has a new timing/cam-belt, and 5 months in from a major all point service. Oil cap is clean as a whistle. Temp gauge is bang centre. 

 

Any ideas anyone..?? I am nervous it's serious.

 

Thanks..  

 

  

Edited 21 October, 2013 by Stephen00

[booke23]

My 2.0 TDI DSG has been making flywheel noises for a while now.......it started at 55,000 miles. It now has 80,000 miles and it hasn't got noticeably worse......so it could easily be the flywheel on your 75,000 mile example. 

 

However my experience has been slightly different to yours. The first sign was a rattle noise at idle when in P or N. This noise stops when you shift into D or R. It's also a bit clattery when you start it up too, but that is the extent of my symptoms. I have not had any clattering on accelerating/braking....yet.   

 

What you describe sounds very much like DMF failure. The DMF on the earlier DSG's are virtually guaranteed to fail.....usually at relatively low mileages.  

[Stephen00]

thanks very much for the input.. 

 

to add, I have just found this link.. I am in fact a cab driver, so I do a lot of about town driving.. 

 

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?107949-Dual-Mass-Flywheel-failure-after-only-39K-miles

[booke23]

Yes, it's a common issue.

 

The good news is that VAG revised the flywheel on the DSG, so when you get it replaced you can expect the new one to last much longer.....In fact there is a member in here with a DSG that has done 650,000 Kms! And I think it has only had one flywheel change early on.

[Stephen00]

Yes, it's a common issue.

 

The good news is that VAG revised the flywheel on the DSG, so when you get it replaced you can expect the new one to last much longer.....In fact there is a member in here with a DSG that has done 650,000 Kms! And I think it has only had one flywheel change early on.

Hi, 

 

Do I need to go to a Skoda dealer service centre to get this revised DMF, or will my super local independent garage be on the ball with this..? I am not sure how independents work when they order in parts... or is it wise to mention this to my local garage and ask them to order in this revised part..? 

 

Thanks. 

[booke23]

 I am not sure how independents work when they order in parts... or is it wise to mention this to my local garage and ask them to order in this revised part..?. 

 

No need to go to a dealer or even mention it. The flywheels were revised a few years ago now and all flywheels for sale will be the newer design.  

[Stephen00]

Thanks Booke, that's great. Lets hope the garage hear what I hear on Monday.

[Stephen00]

My local independent garage took a listen with a stethoscope and say that the noise is coming from my DSG and recommended I take it to an auto specialist.

Today it is at the auto specialists, and I am waiting for their prognosis. They said that the noise would not necessarily come from the DMF area if it was the DMF. Just have to wait and see. Also sometimes just a good old oil change can work wonders - and it is due one of those now at 72000m.

I will keep you updated.   

[Stephen00]

OK, the mechanic took it for a spin, some of the clutch plates have gone inside, and a suspected DMF failure. He is taking it apart tomorrow.

Cost is the wrong side of £1k, but what the hell I love the car. 

I wonder what makes DSG clutch plates fail.. ? I will ask them that.. its only done 74k and it's a 07 reg. 

Looking forward to getting it back.

[booke23]

I wonder what makes DSG clutch plates fail.. ?

 

Bad luck I suppose. Although it's possible a previous owner abused it. Being controlled solely by the DSG, the clutches should wear at a defined rate........this rate of wear usually exceeds the life of the car. 

 

Hopefully nothing else is broken in the transmission.....otherwise it really will start to get expensive. 

[Anddenton]

Bad luck I suppose. Although it's possible a previous owner abused it. Being controlled solely by the DSG, the clutches should wear at a defined rate........this rate of wear usually exceeds the life of the car. 

 

Hopefully nothing else is broken in the transmission.....otherwise it really will start to get expensive.

Maybe someone used launch control too much.

[Stephen00]

OK, I heard the final score from the Auto gearbox specialists, along with the clutch pack (plates) it was also the DMF, so my instincts were correct. I will collect it tomorrow, with a much lighter wallet. I wonder if it will feel different in performance? Has anyone else felt like it was a new car after work like this? I will let you know if I notice a difference. Is there is any come back from a failure like this from Skoda? I heard that some VW DSG owners had some sort of compensation as there was a weakness in certain models. Maybe it was for cars within a certain warranty period. Its been an expensive week for me, so I will be working some extra days for the next 4 months to make it up. But hey that's life.

[Stephen00]

Maybe someone used launch control too much.

 what does launch control mean? Is that a trendy way of stressing the car out at the high street lights to impress people ?  

[Anddenton]

 what does launch control mean? Is that a trendy way of stressing the car out at the high street lights to impress people ?

 

Yep, that's the one, rev the b0110cks off it and let the computer dump the clutch for you.

[booke23]

 what does launch control mean? Is that a trendy way of stressing the car out at the high street lights to impress people ?

 

As anddenton says, you put it in D or S hold the footbrake hard while you floor the throttle.....release the brake and off you go. I've never even tried it. 

 

OK, I heard the final score from the Auto gearbox specialists, along with the clutch pack (plates) it was also the DMF, so my instincts were correct. 

 

Hmmm......I wonder if the the bad DMF caused the clutch packs to fail. Your car has relatively low mileage so it's possible. Makes me wonder how wise it is for me to continue with the rattly flywheel on my DSG.     

[Phil-E]

Not all models have launch control enabled. Tried it once on mine but it was pulling on the clutch which it isn't supposed to do so gave up.

 

Sounds like it may have been abused.

 

They can last more than a normal lifetime usually. There's a guy running a 2.0 140 DSG as a taxi in Ireland with way over 600,000kms on it with nothing but a DMF and gear oil changes.

 

You should notice a difference if the clutches were really worn. Was there any shifting problems before?

 

Phil

[Stephen00]

As anddenton says, you put it in D or S hold the footbrake hard while you floor the throttle.....release the brake and off you go. I've never even tried it. 

 

 

Hmmm......I wonder if the the bad DMF caused the clutch packs to fail. Your car has relatively low mileage so it's possible. Makes me wonder how wise it is for me to continue with the rattly flywheel on my DSG.     

Booke,

As I understand it the DMF has nowt to do with the clutch packs and them failing. I learned this from chatting to the auto gearbox scientists.. There is also a certain amount the DMFs can fail. If its within a certain tolerance you can carry on with it, but if the rattling gets worse then take it in. DMF's take out the chuggy vibration from Diesel engines.  

[Stephen00]

Not all models have launch control enabled. Tried it once on mine but it was pulling on the clutch which it isn't supposed to do so gave up.

 

Sounds like it may have been abused.

 

They can last more than a normal lifetime usually. There's a guy running a 2.0 140 DSG as a taxi in Ireland with way over 600,000kms on it with nothing but a DMF and gear oil changes.

 

You should notice a difference if the clutches were really worn. Was there any shifting problems before?

 

Phil

Hi Phil, 

 

There were no shifting problems at all, just a drone I heard when in 5th and 6th.. now with the DMF and both clutches replaced its running like a dream. Smooth, less noise and with a new sense of urgency. Feels like a new car !

[booke23]

Booke,

As I understand it the DMF has nowt to do with the clutch packs and them failing. I learned this from chatting to the auto gearbox scientists.. 

 

That's good to know. I'll stop worrying about it!

[davejones2]

Just thought I'd resurrect this thread in case my experience is of any use to anyone.

Have an 09 DSG VRS diesel.

Flywheel rattle noted on an MOT last year at 69,000 miles. Subsequent symptoms noted by myself over the last 5000 miles included:

- Increasing vibration at idle, particularly in neutral and park. Would "shudder" every now and then as if a large lorry was driving past!

- More of a noticeable clank on low speed downshifts from 2-1 in particular.

- A quiet transient thunk when depressing the accelerator in 1/2/3. Only audible when very quiet.

- Jerky / shuddery movement when slowing gradually to a stop. I realised I'd just got into the habit of releasing the brake as I came to a stop to mitigate this without realising!

Dealer wanted £500 to diagnose by stripping out box to confirm flywheel actually faulty. Because the symptoms fit with what I'd read I just got them to change it.

Quotes very variable:

- Main dealer best £1200, worst £1400 (one told me they can't change the DMF and would need to replace the entire gearbox, won't be bothering them again!)

- Local VAG specialist £1000

Having now had it replaced it's like having a new car;

- All symptoms above now gone

- Amazing how much quieter the car is now at idle!

I reckon I just caught mine in time TBH. Glad I did.