Super Unleaded

[Big Steve]

The Fuel filler flap on my 75 Elegance says to use Super Unleaded fuel.

 

I am used to using Super in my Motorbike and it is only the same price as diesel so I have always used Super in the Citigo (Tesco 99 if I can get it).

 

What does everyone else use??

 

Anybody found any difference between normal & Super

[Stormchaser]

Only using normal at the moment. There has been reports of there being no difference in performance.

Sent from my IPhone 5 using Tapatalk.

[MikeZ]

The ECU is tuned for 95 RON (normal unleaded in the UK, often called super unleaded in other parts of Europe). UK super unleaded (98 or 99 RON) won't give you any immediate benefits.

The additives in e.g. VPower may keep the engine a bit cleaner in the long run, leading to slightly better fuel economy in an older engine.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[BossFox]

The ECU is tuned for 95 RON (normal unleaded in the UK, often called super unleaded in other parts of Europe).

Exactly.

Look at the RON rating of the fuel, not it's name.

[Emil]

Modern ECU can cope different octanes. Higher octane may give a better performance and fuel consumption.

[MikeZ]

Modern ECU can cope different octanes. Higher octane may give a better performance and fuel consumption.

Using a higher octane fuel in an engine designed for lower octane won't give you more power or economy. However, using a lower octane in an engine designed for a higher rating may well reduce power and economy.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[MickA]

Mine purrs along on Asda unleaded.

 

I connected the PID in the car last week, I don't use it enough and it needed charging. The display after exactly 40 miles of mixed driving, mainly short stop/start type trips and one longer trip of 15 miles returned 60 mpg.

 

You don't really need a higher octane fuel.

[Emil]

Knocking sensors are monitoring continuously. So ignition timing is adjusted continuously. This way ECU get the information which octane is used. You don't have to believe me, but please read owner's manual.

[MikeZ]

Knocking sensors are monitoring continuously. So ignition timing is adjusted continuously. This way ECU get the information which octane is used. You don't have to believe me, but please read owner's manual.

 

I don't disagree with that - what I'm saying is that using a higher octane rated fuel does not by itself give you better performance or economy. Sure, the ECU will adapt but that doesn't automatically mean better performance or economy.

[ettlz]

Knocking sensors are monitoring continuously. So ignition timing is adjusted continuously. This way ECU get the information which octane is used. You don't have to believe me, but please read owner's manual.

 

Looking at the manual on skoda-auto.com dated May 2014 it states that the engine uses "Prescribed fuel – unleaded petrol min. 95 RON" (see page 97) and compliant with EN-228. It then states:

 

On vehicles using prescribed unleaded petrol of min. 95 RON, the use of petrol with a higher octane number than 95 RON can increase the power and reduce fuel consumption

 

(emphasis mine) on page 99. I'm not sure if I believe this, it's a rather vague statement. It's also in direct contradiction to what I've seen in an earlier revision of the manual from March 2012, which states

 

On vehicles with prescribed unleaded petrol min. 95 RON, the use of petrol with a higher octane number than 95 RON does not result in a power increase or a lower fuel consumption.

 

So what's it to be, VAG? Any other bits of the manual I should interpret poetically?

Edited 12 July, 2014 by ettlz

[Ootohere]

re post #3,

 

Just a wee point on UK 'Super Unleaded',  

it is 97 ron Minimum when sold under the description 'Super Unleaded' at Esso, BP Ultimate, Sainsbury.  

 

There is no 98 ron Minimum at pumps i know of. But obviously the 97 Minimum might meet 98 ron.

 

'Tesco Momentum 99' & 'Shell V-Power Nitro' are sold as Minimum 99 ron.

The 99 Ron minimum might and sometimes does exceed 99 ron.

[philhoward]

I know what we call "normal" (95RON) Unleaded is also called Premium Unleaded elsewhere; not to be confused with "Super"...

 

There may be a benefit of using a higher RON value fuel, but I'd be surprised if it's enough on the Citigo to make any significant difference TBH.  More of a benefit to high specific output engines (>100bhp/litre), usually forced induction in my experience.

[Emil]

Real reason why I use 98 is that it contains up to 5% of ethanol. Our 95 contains up to 10% of ethanol here in Finland. I'm not a fan of ethanol so I let others test how ethanol works.

[freemansteve]

As far as I know, all modern petrol cars have knock sensors which allow the ECU to advance or retard ignition timing automatically and dynamically. This will increase or decrease power output from the engine.  Clearly, the range over which the ignition timing is changed would be within set limits to protect the engine (eg from internal overheating).

 

We know the Citigo can retard ignition to cope with lower octane fuels, but the question really is whether it advances ignition for say 97-99 octane fuels or not - it could, but it is a software design choice. Unless we can find some definitive data from an engineering source that it will advance to suit high octane fuels, the only way to find out is on a rolling road dynamometer. You may not easily be able to tell by a quick road test.

 

In any case, if there was a tad more power, it does not automatically mean better economy too.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Good thread revival,

Maybe just less emissions, as it was the Citigo's are discontinued and will be no more.

They 1.0 MPI's never were as low emissions as the testing results showed, and with the WLTP / RDE & then now RDE2 they had to go.

Surprisingly the Up! 1.0TSI do not get that fantastic economy for such a light car.

Heavier Ibiza, Polo, Fabia can match them.

VW can only get away with kidology for so long.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel

 

[Gerrycan]

Nothing to do with VW 'kidology' and far more to do with they type of driver attracted to the respective vehicles and the way they drive them.

The Up! gti would definitely tempt more use of the turbo with consequent greater fuel use.

 

You are probably right about insufficient sales on their part to spend more on the 1.0mpi to meet increasingly strict emission standards. 

[Ootohere]

The UP! comes as a 1.0TSI without being having to be an  Up! GTI.

They had to do software changes to get the GTI with the WLTP figures they were after.

You can get as good economy with a heavier SEAT Ibiza 1.0 TSI DSG 115ps as with an UP! GTI manual doing the same speeds.

Edited 23 August, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[freemansteve]

Is this thread about Citigo vs Polo vs some random Ferrari  vs the evil lies from VAG or about fuel octane?

I am no longer sure.

 

Given I do 5K miles a year, I have just filled my brand-new Citigo with Tesco Momentum  - higher octane - just see if I can tell any difference compared with the last tank of 95 octane. The cost is no big deal as a one-off or on my mileage if I fancy it regularly. 

 

Not to muddy the waters, being as a given engine model is a specific item and not a general principle (not widely understood), but I come form driving a 3L V6 diesel pickup that towed a 4.2T 5th wheel between the northern-most place in mainland Scotland and the southern most part of Iberia for many years and I can say unequivocally that super-diesel (higher cetane fuel) made a clear difference that even my wife as a passenger could feel on familiar mountain routes. I am not saying this is the same as octane - but that is why I am keen to see if my Citigo 75 -feels- any better or not.

 

Edited 23 August, 2019 by freemansteve

[Ootohere]

Really as usual, pay the 5 pence a litre more than supermarket 95 ron to get 97 / 99 and see if worth it, if not then why buy it,

that might even cost less per tank than 95 ron from the Major Retailers that are not @ Supermarkets.

 

You have the car to drive when ever you want so a quick roadtest it does not need to be, run it any season in any weather for as long as you want.

Edited 23 August, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[freemansteve]

14 minutes ago, Roottootemoot said:

Really as usual, pay the 5 pence a litre more than supermarket 95 ron to get 97 / 99 and see if worth it, if not then why buy it,

that might even cost less per tank than 95 ron from the Major Retailers that are not @ Supermarkets.

 

You have the car to drive when ever you want so a quick roadtest it does not need to be, run it any season in any weather for as long as you want.

 

As a guy who has driven hundreds of cars in many countries with varying fuel, I am not fooled by marketing hype.  I can feel the engine response on known routes - it varies for all sorts of reasons - and I would even out the averages over time in case I am having a bad day. Given I am too old to care about putting a cheapo Citigo runabout on a dynamometer to prove any scientific point, I will do the experiment with 98/99 octane fuel myself and then express an opinion, at least for my specific car, at some later date.  At least it will not be marketing hype, or false assumptions about how the ECU might possibly work (which we all know)..!

Edited 23 August, 2019 by freemansteve

[Ootohere]

Great, spend less than £2 extra for a tank of Tesco Momentum 99 or Sainsbury 97 and you will have the answer then.

No 98 ron sold at retailers in the UK.

[freemansteve]

On 23/08/2019 at 18:35, Roottootemoot said:

No 98 ron sold at retailers in the UK.

 

Well - let's be picky about me saying "98/99". As it happens, I filled with Tesco Momentum which is 99 octane.

I will report back, but it may takes weeks (now I no longer do 40K miles a year) until I next fill and retest with 95 octane on the exact same pattern of journeys.

IF  my 2019 75ps Citigo does respond better, that would indicate that it is capable of advancing the ignition  to suit the fuel - and I will be able to tell if it does respond better. But it is an academic point, as I may decide the difference - if any - is too small to justify paying more for fuel. 

For me, a couple of quid spent to do an experiment is perfectly fine - albeit one that is inherently subjective, i.e. without the use of a dyno.

Edited 25 August, 2019 by freemansteve
spelling