Another Bluetooth module post | upgrading to A2DP

[WHYQ]

Hi Briskodans,

 

G'day from New Zealand.  I'm a long time lurker and finally signed up last week when I took the plunge and bought what I thought was a 2011 Octavia VRS.

It turns out that it had been sitting around a while before being registered in 2011 and is actually an MY10 spec car.

 

Which means it has the 5K0 035 730 (SW 1020, HW H09) BT module.  To my frustration after reading quite a few threads it looks like this does NOT support A2DP (Bluetooth audio streaming).  Unless there is a miracle combination of software updates for my existing hardware components that bring on A2DP?

 

Failing a software solution, how do I go about "upgrading" the BT module to bring on A2DP functionality?  I expect the answer is to find a more modern (than 2010) VAG BT module, but I'm lost in the alphabet soup of what is the appropriate part to source (from either ebay or carsystems.pl etc).

 

- Would a replacement module "plug and pray" into the current wiring loom?  I have full phone handsfree functionality using the current module, so am happy with reliability of the current components.

- Am I likely to run into compatibility problems with either the h/w and s/w versions on my Bolero?

- Would I need VCDS to tell the system about the changes?

 

Any other traps for young players in this scenario?

 

Thanks in advance for your sagely advice...

[adamal]

Welcome to the forum.

You will likely need to swap out the module for a newer one, which you may need to code with VCDS but which will probably plug and play with whatever pre-coding it comes with.

However which one depends on a couple of things?

Have you got maxidot?

Does the current part number definitely not have a suffix letter?

When you looked at the BT box, did it have a GSM antenna feed (small purple plug) as well as the main loom connection?

Adam

[WHYQ]

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

Have you got maxidot? Yes.  The VRS spec down here is quite good, within the boundaries of the model year and production week it rolled off the assembly line.
Does the current part number definitely not have a suffix letter? Definitely no suffix after the part number.
When you looked at the BT box, did it have a GSM antenna feed (small purple plug) as well as the main loom connection?  Only see the main loom connector.

[adamal]

It sounds like you have an older HFP only module. You could replace this with a 5k0 035 730 d or above or a 7p6 035 730 j or above module for similar functions to what you have, but also A2DP streaming.

However, having maxidot you could also go for a premium 3c8 035 730 a or above module (d is best) for not much more cash (maxidot needed for pairing). This though will need a GSM antenna to be purchased and run from the module to the top of the A pillar. They can be had for about £10 to £15 (not sure what that is in NZ dollars).

The decision to get a premium module will partly depend on your phone selection. If you are an iPhone man you can't use most of the premium services (as it only connects via HFP not rSap), but with a Samsung for example, you can connect by rSap and take advantage of premium features such as text readout.

One other benefit of the premium modules though is the ability to pair one phone as a phone and another for streaming. I personally find this the best reason to own one.

Adam

[WHYQ]

Great, you've perked my interest with the uber-posh 3C8 module.  Can this be operated in rSAP or UHV mode?  From what I've read, rSAP putting the phone into flight mode doesn't appear too useful at first glance.

 

As usual my usage scenario may have helped at the beginning:

I'm an Android user (Galaxy S4 running a 4.4.2 ROM) and keep the phone in a windscreen cradle.  Obviously I want the base HFP functionality of a BT system, but more important to me is to be able to pipe audio output from the phone e.g. Sygic/Waze/Google Maps, a podcast app or occasionally Spotify (mostly locally cached files, but sometimes streaming over mobile data).  All from the one handset.

So having mobile data in the car is a requirement for me.  Does this still make the 3C8 a contender for my scenario?

 

I have observed that with my older revision 5K0, I get the Bolero touchscreen dialing without interruption to mobile data - is this not rSAP in action then?

 

Also, in Skoda terms does GSM II = HFP only and therefore GSM III = HFP + AD2P?

[adamal]

The answer to your penultimate question is this is HFP in action not rSap. The phone is still live and can be used as a handset while it is connected. I am not sure about your last question though but HFP does not need a GSM antenna so it doesn't sound correct.

You should be able to run rSap with an android phone although you may need an app or to root the phone. Samsung handsets generally work out of the box though. Basically rSap takes over the sim and so the car becomes the handset. This means the handset is effectively disengaged from the network as you point out.

BUT with a 3c8 .. D module, you can create a wifi hotspot in the car using your data apn and this means that a phone app needing data (satnav or music connection etc) can still work with the disengaged handset while getting the premium services of text readout etc. This is potentially very useful and means the 3c8 .. D could be for you.

Obviously there are ways of doing such things in a safe way, e.g. at the roadside, and clearly there are dangers here, but that is another issue, I am just saying how it works.

Hope that helps

Adam

[WHYQ]

All very useful information so far Adam.

 

I think I'm nearly over the line about the 3C8...D, as found here: http://www.carsystems.pl/vw-bluetooth-kit-3c8035730d-with-wi-fi-hot-spot-newest-version,id701.html

Because we're so far away, I may as well get the full kit and at worst accumulate some spare bits and bobs.

 

However, in a bid to minimise taking my new (to me) car apart:

- Will the existing loom from my decrepit 5K0..(no suffix) plug into the new 3CD module?

- Will the Bolero play nicely with this fancy new 3C8?  It's so old that if I hold down Setup, it only gives me the FM and AM diagnostics options - not able to show the firmware etc.

- Can the factory fitted microphone continue to be used?  Voice control and HFP appears to work well right now with the 5K0

- Can the 3C8 be used without installing the GSM antenna?  Is the antenna only utilised in rSAP mode?

 

I'm kind of accepting that VCDS may be required to change codes in the car.  We've got some VW independent workshops here that I think should be able to do it, with some pointers as to where in the menu hierarchy they need to go and the values to change.

Or *gulp* I could look at getting VCDS myself if there is a future in phaffing around with my Octavia's settings.

 

Thanks again for the help so far!

[adamal]

Some answers within your text below

However, in a bid to minimise taking my new (to me) car apart:

- Will the existing loom from my decrepit 5K0..(no suffix) plug into the new 3CD module?

Yes it should do, with the addition of just the gsm antenna.

- Will the Bolero play nicely with this fancy new 3C8? It's so old that if I hold down Setup, it only gives me the FM and AM diagnostics options - not able to show the firmware etc.

I don't know much about the Bolero sorry. But if the current one works I see no reason why the 3c8 won't.

- Can the factory fitted microphone continue to be used? Voice control and HFP appears to work well right now with the 5K0.

Should be the same wiring so again no issue.

- Can the 3C8 be used without installing the GSM antenna? Is the antenna only utilised in rSAP mode?

Yes but that will limit the functionality including the wifi hotspot.

I'm kind of accepting that VCDS may be required to change codes in the car. We've got some VW independent workshops here that I think should be able to do it, with some pointers as to where in the menu hierarchy they need to go and the values to change.

Or *gulp* I could look at getting VCDS myself if there is a future in phaffing around with my Octavia's settings.

Dont worry the pre coding will probably suffice. And it's a very easy job to code if necessary and we can advise.

Finally if it were me I would just buy the module (there are sellers on ebay who just sell it for around £100) and a gsm antenna (again eBay).

Good luck

Adam

[WHYQ]

Okay, my update:

 

I got the 3C8..D module kit which includes a plug-and-play harness.

 

Replaced the module under the drivers seat using the factory wiring and it connected to the Bolero fine - A2DP functionality, integration with MFSW and Maxidot.  But it had the dreaded right side audio only problem - meaning the factory wiring, in keeping with MY10 vintage did not have left channel wires for Bluetooth audio. 

I've pulled the HU out with a view to replace the factory wiring with the plug-and-play harness supplied with the kit and started a gentle methodical cable trace (measure twice and cut once approach).  Plus I wanted to test the new harness to make sure that it would provide me the new functionality required i.e. stereo sound from BT audio and that nothing else was broken by the new cable.

But for the life of me, I can't find where the "car" end socket is (i.e. antenna, power, speakers etc.)  

 

If you look at the photo of the cavity, the Quadlock cable goes off to the left.  It is then aggregated into a big wrapped bundle running above the glove box.

 

 But given the short distance between the Quadlock and the "car" connector (~20cms) I would expect the car side of that connector to be within the vicinity either around the centre console or just above the glove box, but I seem to be missing something very obvious!

 

Any clues where I would find the car outlet with speakers etc?

 

 

 

[adamal]

The wires you need to add are from the BT module to the radio. There is no other connector here, it is linked straight to the bt module, speakers etc from that quadlock. If you install the new harness it will plug into that quadlock and you have a double lock.

For more info on the wire addition, see

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/bluetooth-9w7-module-voice-control-retrofit-swap-install-and-faq/

BUT I would imagine the new harness should include these extra wires.

There is a wiring diagram for the quadlock here (check out connector 3 pins 5 and 11):

http://www.my-gti.com/529/volkswagen-rns-510-pin-assignments

Adam

[WHYQ]

I'm preparing to replace the factory harness with the one supplied with the BT module.  I just want to test it quickly before embarking on ripping out the factory harness.

 

What I'm being a bit thick about is where does the connector (first one attached in post #9) with the power, antenna, speaker outputs etc. click into on the car?  It's not jumping out at me even after a hour of looking :peek:  I've had the glovebox off, the climate controls out and even the ashtray/storage above the gear stick removed.

[adamal]

The two you have pictured clip together (release the lever first and then close it when the two are together) and then the other end of the harness you have goes into the back of the radio....

It all then squeezes behind the radio or better to the side of the cage to allow the radio back in.

[WHYQ]

So I had another tilt at this on the weekend and am still missing the plot with regard to the cable.

 

I was supplied this plug-and-play cable with the 3C8..D kit: http://www.cars-equipment.com/www/en/shop/bluetooth-kits/oem-3c8035730d-bluetooth-wifi-hot-spot/ 

 

 

The number of wires populated on the new cable's blue and green connectors on the quadlock (Bolero connector) suggests that there is a whole lot more functionality on the new BT controller over the factory fit controller from 2010 - to be expected really.  

 

However, if my aim is to replace the factory run cable with the one supplied in the webpage above, I'm at a loss as to where to plug the "car" end of the cable into.  I believe that is probably the CANBUS Infotainment interface?  As you can see from my photo in post #9 I just have a giant loom heading left above the glove box and nothing within the span of the "car" connector of the new cable.

 

From the photo here on vwwatercooled http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f149/couldnt-b-happier-my-bluetooth-install-64198.html (last photo on post #2) this MY11 Octy appears to have the car connector just click into an interface behind the Head Unit!  I've got no such luxury in my MY10.

 

Can anyone give me a clue where to find the "car" socket, if that is in fact the CANBUS infotainment interface?

[adamal]

I think the problem is that your wiring is more integrated into the car rather than a separate quadlock insert as per your picture, so you need to take out the existing BT and mic connections and leave everything else (see mini connector 3 in http://www.my-gti.com/529/volkswagen-rns-510-pin-assignments).

 

You will need to take out the mini white/cream plug from the bottom left of the the existing quadlock connector (see last pic in your post 9 above).  Once this is done, plug the quadlock connector into the connector marked car in your last picture, and then plug the connector marked radio into the head unit, with the other parts of the new harness going to the new BT unit and the mic.  You should be able to remove the BT and mic part the OLD harness if you strip down the glovebox and undo some wiring tape etc, but its not the end of the world if you don't as it won't be connected at eirther end.

 

Adam

[WHYQ]

Here is a mostly positive update to my ICE adventures down here in New Zealand.  Many thanks to adamal for persevering with my noobie questions!

 

After a few re-reads I finally clicked that the factory quadlock goes into the plug and play harness.  Gave myself an uppercut for taking so long for it to sink in!

With a bit of finger wrestling and callisthenics (and grazed hands from the not-so-soft plastics) I managed to tuck the now much bigger cable bundle in the cavity to the left of the head unit cage.

For the microphone input to the 3C8..D I frankensteined the mic from the factory BT loom (and have left the cable run in place, for now) and plugged that pair into 11 and 12 on the new BT loom.

 

So now I have A2DP, which was the initial goal.  rSAP is a bit hit and miss.  The Wi-Fi AP works fine, but I think when you're tying up the Bluetooth channel for the rSAP "takeover" of the SIM you can't use it for audio between an alternative telephony app (e.g. Hangouts, Viber, Skype etc) and the car audio system.  No great loss, I can continue in UHV mode.

 

I've even got my local franchised dealer (there are only 2 in Auckland) to upgrade the Bolero (version F, hardware 010) to firmware 054, but unfortunately that has not brought on the functionality of track info on the Bolero screen or AVRCP from either the Bolero screen or the MFSW.  That was always a long shot anyways given how old the hardware was in relation to the Skoda official support of such mod cons.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels: 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb

   Part No SW: 1Z0 035 156 F    HW: 1Z0 035 156 F

   Component: BOLERO        010 0054  

   Revision: 0A001001    Serial number: SKZ1Z3K8448950

   Coding: 090200000000

   Shop #: WSC 23694 001 1048576

   VCID: 354FF3CE9C7189898CD-8060

 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So yes, after all of this, I am considering a Columbus retrofit.  Will see how impacted I am by not having track listings or steering wheel controls to change tracks.

 

Meanwhile, I just have some error codes on #77 (I have cleared controller 77 and these errors stay persistent):

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 77: Telephone (J412)       Labels: 3C8-035-730-A.clb

   Part No SW: 3C8 035 730 D    HW: 3C8 035 730 D

   Component: Telefon       022 0982  

   Revision: --------    Serial number: 35502105101119

   Coding: 020000000100000000000101

   Shop #: WSC 73430 790 00999

   ASAM Dataset: EV_UHVPremi 002709

   ROD: EV_UHVPremi_SE36.rod

   VCID: 24693E8A2FEB00012B3-8071

 

2 Faults Found:

9458451 - Cellular Antenna 

          B1053 13 [009] - Open Circuit

          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

             Freeze Frame:

                    Fault Status: 00000001

                    Fault Priority: 4

                    Fault Frequency: 1

                    Reset counter: 59

                    Mileage: 47434 km

                    Date: 2014.12.11

                    Time: 09:09:06

 

9458193 - Control Module for Cellular Telephone 

          B1052 14 [009] - Open or Short to Ground

          Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

             Freeze Frame:

                    Fault Status: 00000001

                    Fault Priority: 4

                    Fault Frequency: 1

                    Reset counter: 59

                    Mileage: 47434 km

                    Date: 2014.12.11

                    Time: 09:09:06

 

Despite these faults showing up, the BT module is working well, with apparently all options presented on the Maxidot and both HFP and A2DP coming through nice and cleanly over the speakers.  I take it they're quite benign and may be related to features not present - reading a multitude of other threads things like the 3 key pinpad?  

Do any of the numbers refer to a particular pin on the 54 pin connector that I may also need to bring across from the factory BT loom?

[adamal]

Good news. I think the second is because the module is coded slightly incorrectly. As you say the option for the 3 button keypad should be turned off in the coding.

The first is a little more baffling if you are saying it is persistent. I would have thought it should clear as it was caused by various disconnecting and reconnecting of the mic cable while testing... It might be because you have left some old wiring in place still connected to the loom in some way on open circuit??

Not sure about your Bolero question but if you get a Columbus you won't regret it.

Adam

[WHYQ]

The Bolero comment was a concession to defeat that even with the latest software, the hardware revision I've got (version F, hardware 010) will not give me track information on the head unit screen or track skip controls.

 

So I can either:

- Lump it and live with it and spend no more time tinkering.  But despite swearing a lot along the way, it's been fun getting to know much more about my Octy than I ever planned to!

- Source a newer Bolero to suit my FL MkII.  A colleague has a MY12 Octy and it has this functionality.

- Go whole hog and get a Columbus kit.  I've seen some on ebay with GPS antenna and NZ maps.  Not sure if getting map updates is going to be a ball-ache when retro-fitted?  I found a link on a Skoda site promising updates, but obviously my VIN does not show up as equipped with Sat Nav at the factory. 

[adamal]

You won't get free map updates based on your VIN (as they are for the Octavia Mk3 only), so that will be down to your local franchise or sourcing them elsewhere for a cost. However, source a Columbus with the latest maps for NZ and it won't change much anyway - I'm not on quite the latest over here but it doesn't keep me awake at nights.