Superb or not Superb, that is the question...

[zeddicus]

Hi all,

 

Just joined the forum, please check out my introduction post to know a little about me...

 

I'll explain the situation, and then hopefully you can help me out with a bit of advice!

 

I'm a very keen driver. Current car is a Subaru Legacy R Spec B - 245 BHP, permanent all wheel drive and one of the best chassis I have ever driven in.

 

I've owned the car since new, which is now knocking on for 9 years - the longest I have owned any car by more than double!

 

However, the old girl has just passed 100k miles (today!), and I've now got a 400 mile per week commute, so a 3 litre petrol engine that gives a best of 22mpg is not ideal!

 

So, I'm looking for a diesel car that's still very fun to drive, has a fair bit of oomph and will hopefully double my MPG. In an ideal world, it'll have 4WD too as I've got used to it over the years of Subaru ownership.

 

My shortlist looks like this:

 

Skoda Superb 2.0tdi 170 Elegance 4x4

Ford Mondeo 2.2 200 Titanium X Sport

Mazda 6 Sport Nav 2.2 175

Subaru Legacy 2.0 D 150

 

I'll be looking to buy upto 3 years old, but not new as at 20k miles per year, I'd rather someone else have taken the initial hit for the depreciation!

 

Have any of you test driven these cars (possibly with the exception of the Subaru as its a bit of a left field choice and only really on the list as I've loved the one I've got and its got 4wd!) back to back? Would really appreciate your views...

 

Also, on the Skoda itself:

 

1) Anyone got a sorted example they are looking to sell? Hoping for <40k miles as I'll be racking them up myself - hatchback only, please.

2) How is it in terms of body roll and control? I'm used to chucking my Subaru round corners and it staying flat as a pancake, so would love to hear the Superb is similarly as good!

3) Has anyone chipped their 170 tdi engine? Been checking out DTUK and they reckon they can easily get me up to around 220-225bhp on a plug in chip

4) I am quite an enthusiastic driver (as you may have gathered!) so any other similarly heavy footed members had experience of the real world mpg of the 170 4x4? My commute is a mix of traffic, M25 and back roads. I'm currently getting an average of 22.5mpg in my Subaru and, to justify the cost of getting a new car, I'm hoping for at least double that.

 

Any help you can offer will be gratefully received!

 

Thanks

 

Z

[scottalej]

Hi and welcome. I recently bought a 170PS diesel manual 4x4 Superb after owning a Legacy Spec B for 3 years and 40k miles. Unlike you I didn't enjoy the Subaru and was glad to get shot of it. The ONLY thing going for it was the handling.

 

My commute is 12 miles and 25 minutes each way comprising mainly of country roads with a little town driving. With the Subaru I was averaging 26 mpg on the computer.

The Superb is averaging 48 mpg on the computer which is a real 43 mpg.

 

If you're 'heavy footed' though I'd expect the mpg of a Superb could be in the low 30's which is still 10 mpg better than the Legacy.

 

The Superb corners very well with little roll and much better steering feel than the Legacy. It is softly sprung in comparison though and does not feel as responsive in the corners or take kindly to 'chucking'. Eibach springs with uprated dampers would sort that issue out though and still provide a better ride than the Legacy. I had this set up on my previous Passat 4motion. I prefer the fantastic ride of the Superb as standard though, even on 18" rims, and am happy to compromise a few seconds lost on tight corners compared to the Legacy.

 

I may get mine chipped once it's out of warranty and like you was looking at the DTUK option. This would be for better overtaking urge as I do miss the Legacy's power for that.

 

I couldn't go back to front wheel drive after 14 years of 4wd. Wheelspin in the wet, heavy tyre wear, understeer, no thanks. Having driven the latest Legacy diesel I wasn't impressed and after speaking at length with a very disgruntled owner I wouldn't consider one anyway. Isn't it the ugliest car on the road as well?

 

Anyway, I hope this is useful to you and you'll at least test drive a Superb.

[zeddicus]

Hi Scott,

 

Thanks very much for getting back to me.

 

I must admit, as much as I've loved the Subaru, the ride is starting to wear on me somewhat! I was in my late 20s when I bought the car and now, almost 10 years on, I am missing a cosseting ride that doesn't mean that I can feel every ant that the car drives over! So am pleased to hear what you have said re the ride of the Superb. Good idea about the springs, and that's the sort of mod I can do once I've taken time to get used to the car.

 

Will definitely be test driving one, hopefully at the weekend - black 170 4x4 hatchback with 26.5k miles 12/12 reg and advertised at garage for £14.7k - seems like a fair price to me but would appreciate any other views?

 

Also nice to hear about the steering as the Subaru can get a bit hairy when you have uneven ground, not entirely sure what its going to do next!

 

Interesting on the fuel economy. This is where my liking of 4wd is put to the test as the True MPG of the Mazda6, for example is >50... Hmm, lets see how the test drive goes.

 

BTW, what did you think of the Passat 4motion that you used to have?

 

Thanks again for your comments, really useful especially coming from a Legacy as well!

 

Z

 

P.S. Yes, they are pretty ugly beasts! I've found 2 saloons for sale in the UK in the new shape as they were not offcially sold here, but Subaru themselves brought a handful over as demos. Very basic spec, which is a bit of a shame - no leather, no bluetooth etc. I am looking forward to a bit of luxury again!

[scottalej]

Happy to help.

 

This is a good site for pricing cars. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/private-valuation/lookup

 

Yes the new Mazda is very economical. I wasn't overly impressed with the car on a test drive though. It's much wider than the Superb as well but doesn't feel as spacious on the inside.

 

The Passat 4Motion was a great car. It was a W reg B5 2.8V6 estate. A real bargain at the time as a smaller A4 Quattro avant with the same running gear would have been £5k more. In hindsight I should have kept it instead of buying the Legacy. I might have bought a B6 3.2 4Motion but they're only available as autos.

 

The Superb is a similar bargain as my Outdoor was £4-5k cheaper than the VW Alltrack and £7-8k cheaper than the A4 Allroad.

[zeddicus]

I think I'll take the Mazda out too, as that seems to be the only credible challenger in this class. The Mondeo seems great, but the MPG is really no better than the Superb, hence would rather get 4x4 for the same MPG, and the Superb is a lot more luxurious than the Ford.

 

I know there's a few 4Motions knocking about with the 170 engine, so may see if there are any near me for a look, although I think they are quite old now as from memory they stopped them around 2009, until the latest Alltrack.

 

Thanks for the valuation site. Looks like its on the money as Wisebuyers (my usual go-to) is suggesting around £16.3k from a dealer and £13.8k private, and Aututrader are saying £13.6ish for a private sale. If I can get the car for my Legacy plus a max of £11k, I'll probably go for it...

 

Hopefully a few test drives this weekend, so will keep you posted!

 

Z

[scottalej]

I'd sell the Legacy privately as no one was interested in mine as a PX. It was a 2005 with only 92k miles in atlantic blue and I was offered £2-2.5k as  PX against cars around £20k. I sold it privately for £3500 and negotiated with hard cash.

 

Have fun with the test drives. I drove a lot of cars before deciding on the Superb.

[zeddicus]

Thanks Scott. Almost sold it 18 months ago when I had bought a Volvo S80 V8 for a bit of fun, but the 16mpg from the Volvo was crippling me and I made a profit on it after 10 months of ownership when I sold it instead of the Legacy! Was getting offers around £4k for the Legacy then, so hopefully can get around £3k for it now - it a black 2005/55 which has just reached 100k...

 

Did you sell via usual AutoTrader/Motors/eBay or via forums? Was thinking about listing it in the Legacy OC forums...

 

Other slight dilemma is leasing. I'm gonna be financing the difference in my car and new car, and £11k works out to around £220 a month. I can lease a new Octavia 2.0 tdi Elegance for £306 per month with full maintenance based on 20k miles a year! May have to test drive the Octavia too and see how important I think 4wd is... Superb has a lot more toys, and I'll still have an asset with value at the end, but it would be nice not to have to worry about anything except fuel and insurance for 3 years!

[scottalej]

I advertised on Gumtree and had lots of interest. I wouldn't waste my time advertising on the forum as they generally already have their Subarus. You could also try Pistonheads.

 

I've never financed a car or anything else apart from the house. I just save up and buy outright. 

[zeddicus]

Thanks Scott. Was offered £1.7k in a px over the weekend! Needs a few things doing to it so have advertised it as is to gauge interest at £2.4k, and if no interest, will get the bits done and look for £3k. Just seen an identical one to mine, but with 13k less miles, at a dealer for £3995, so low £3s is probably the best I can expect, with the mechanicals done...

 

Drove a very nice twindoor in black - 2012/12 elegance 4x4 - at the weekend so hoping I can get shot of mine quickly!

 

Z

[scottalej]

Was that a 170 ps manual? My Outdoor is still surprising me with its abilities. I took mine over Cairn O'Mount yesterday, which is a challenging road up here, and was amazed at how it powered up the steep climb to the top. The Legacy was prone to power understeer like a FWD but in the Superb you can feel the back end pushing. You have to remember to work the torque rather than revving it too much though. It doesn't feel quick because the engine isn't thrashing but journey times compared to the Legacy prove that it is.

 

What does your car need doing to it?

[zeddicus]

Yep, was a 170ps manual - 12/12 in black (which would be my preferred colour combo!). SWMBO has pointed out that I'll just be racking up miles doing 20k a year, so hopefully looking at a 09/09 in silver later this week for £9.5k, a bit more reasonable! Annoyed I missed out on Rally-Chris's 09/09 with extra toys a couple of months ago...

 

Subaru needs MOT (less than 1 month left), front drop links and needs the throttle body/MAF sensor cleaned due to rough idle after 20 mins of stop start. Also a button just fell off the hands free kit! TBH, gonna get the bits done this week and list it around £3.2k as it should only come to a couple of hundred quid or so from an indpendent and makes the car much more sellable. However, if I am able to get a decent PX price for it when I go to see the 09/09, I can always cancel the work! Could do with wheel refurb as they're bubbling, and the body work does show that its done 100k miles - stone chips on bonnet etc. But not going to waste money getting bodywork to showroom as I'll never get the money back!

 

I'm going to give whichever car I get a few months to get used to it before looking at DTUK or other tuning - just had e-mail from Celtic who say they can remap to around 225bhp for the same price as a DTUK box...

[scottalej]

Have you had a black car before? They show up muck and parking dings better than any other colour. If you don't mind spending time keeping it clean they look great though.

 

Go for Febi Bilstein drop links. The Subaru ones are very expensive and the original replacements I bought from my independent parts place were hopeless. It's a very easy job to replace these. Allen key and a spanner. The throttle body and MAF clean requires contact cleaner and a cotton bud for the MAF sensor. My alloys were bubbling around the centres which seems to be normal with these and expected on a car that age. My car had hardly any stone chipping on the bonnet at 92k miles. My mates Legacy looks like it has been sand blasted as he drives too close to the car in front. 'Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule'.