Squeeking Noice, Follows Revs

[kimpis]

Hi.

Regarding my 140 tdi -11 elegance 4x4:

A few weeks ago I asked about the multibelt, powering the AC and something else (dont remember).

Anyhow, I had a squeeking noice when the engine was cold, and thought that the belt mentioned above had to be replaced (125 000 km and never changed before). Said and done, it has been replaced.

When I went to pick the car up from the repair shop, they informed me that there are some kind of noise, not loud, but still a noise that should not be there.

They span the wheels in order to recreate the sound, but couldnt do it.

 

After I picked the car up from the repair shop, I couldnt hear anything, the seeking noice nor the discrete misnoice that they heard.

Now though, since about a week back, I have that squeeking noice back again, and as before it follows the revs on the engine when cold.

Since I've read some more or less horrible things about the waterpump, could this be it?

From what I understand, it's quite complicated to change the pump.

If I leave the car to the repairshop again, in order to let them find the squeeking noice, and the confirm the waterpump, should I have them change the cambelt aswell? Is it a good idea to let them do that if there are about to go into those regions anyway in order to check the status of the wheels and components in there?

Or does anyone have any other suggestions on what the problem might be? The sound of the squeeking comes out of the left side of the engine (standing in front of the car).

The car has just over 125 000km, and according to the service plan, the cambelt is not to change until 180 000km.

 

Thanks

Kim.

Edited 14 November, 2014 by kimpis

[JakeBlade]

You could try a decibel meter app on your phone, to help pinpoint the noise more accurately.  Just do it from above the engine bay - no need to risk burning your hands poking down the sides of the engine.

[Superb170]

 

 

Now though, since about a week back, I have that squeeking noice back again, and as before it follows the revs on the engine when cold.

Since I've read some more or less horrible things about the waterpump, could this be it?

I had what I think was the same noise as yours on my last Superb (with little mileage on it at the time).  Only happened on a cold start and made a rotational squeaking sound like a dry belt or pulley.  It always disappeared after the engine warmed up.  After a bit of to and fro to the dealer they eventually replaced the water pump as a last resort and it sorted it.  It was a bearing in the pump AFAIK.  It could be something else though as there are many noises like this caused by different issues and it may just be a dry belt or a tight belt.  Do you have a video that can reproduce the noise by any chance - that might help with a diagnosis

[silver1011]

The left side of the engine houses all of the belts, pulleys and rollers so it's likely to be related.

 

A lot of people choose to have the waterpump replaced at the same time as the timing / cambelt as the belt needs to be removed to access the pump. Once the belt is removed it should not be refitted.

[kimpis]

Alright, an update:

I had the car turned in to the Skoda repair shop.

They confirmed that the squeeking noise comes from the cambelt itself.

They have never come across this before, that the belt makes sound.

The belt, they said, looks fine, no dry cracks on it or anyting.

They just dont know why the belt sounds the way it does.

They also informed me that the belt normally isnt changed solo, but at 21k km along with other things such as waterpump, wheels etc.

 

So, anyone heard of this before? That the cambelt itself is making this squeeking noise but is infact in good condition?

I'm about to go pick the car up now without any repair done on it, since they want about 1k pound for the complete job of changing the belt, waterpump etc.

They also told me they do not recommend changing the belt only at this point if i can live with the squeeking, cus if the w pump goes or i hit the right mileage

for the big change, the cost of just changing the belt at this point will be like throwing money into the lake.

[kimpis]

Alright, another update:

 

Today I was to drive over to a friends house. Used the webasto heater, turned it on about 5 mins before getting into the car.

Turned the ignition key around, it started up but instantly started "bubbling" and going down on revs, engine died about 2 secs later.

Started the car again, started bubbling again but after a sec or 2 it cleared out and went up on the correct revs.

 

Might this have anything to do with the squeeking sound? According to the Skoda repair shop its squeeking due to the belt itself.

But Im not as sure, Im thinking of one of the wheels the cambelt powers. 

Since the noice has been louder recently, im starting to suspect that.

And that one of the wheels are really messed up causing resistance for the belt.

And could the incident today be that the engine turned sour somehow along with the use of the webasto and if one of the wheels are broke somehow?

[Napier]

Not sure if it applies to the 2.0CR engine, but on the older 1.9PD it was normal to swap water pump and the idler/tensioning pulley at cam belt change.

The belt tension is governed by an automatic tensioner, and if the belt has stretched too far it may be just a bit loose and the noise will be due to slipping. I have never heard a ribbed belt make a noise other than slipping or misalignment. These ribbed belts tend to stretch about 1% during the first hour or so of use and then stretch no more, if under a constant tension.

I would suspect a bearing in the water pump or idler pulley

[Danny 57]

I fail to see how the timing belt would be at fault for the squeak as it is not a "V" belt, so there is no means for it to generate a squeak.

[kimpis]

The squeeking noise is now noticable even when the engine is warm.

I've chosen to turn the car in on the 24th in order to, once again, try and find out what's causing the squeekings.

I just dont buy that it would be the belt itself.

On top of that, the car has on several occasions when starting the car up when cold, gone down on revs, dyin and/or

kept lower revs then usually.

I'm hoping for a more satisfying answer from the repair shop this time.

[Supurbia]

Here's a test you can do that doesn't leave any residues,

 

Get a toothbrush, a piece of wood to act as an ext bar, tape the brush to the wood and a bar of soap,

 

 

Wet the soap and rub the tooth brush bristles on it to get a coating, then start the car and hold the tooth brush on either side of the aux drive belt (the alternator belt) if this shuts it up you simply have a drive belt that is .0000001mm too wide for the pulleys and sound is resonating from it,

 

This happens quite a lot on modern cars and also ambient temps of the local climate can play a part, damp air helps it to slip also until heat sorts it out,

 

This will at least rule it in or out for you, if it doesn't shut it up it'll be a roller pulley on either that or the cambelt circuit where the only way to tell is to start hitting them with a good quality lubricant spray trying to avoid the belt, hth.

Edited 18 February, 2015 by Supurbia

[JakeBlade]

Be careful with lube sprays on rubber belts.  Could have the undesired effect of drying out the rubber, leading to premature failure.

[kimpis]

The alternator belt was changed this fall in order to exclude it as a factor.

I'll give it a go anyways with the soaptest this weekend, thanks for the tip!

[kimpis]

Well, the car was turned in to the repairshop, and they changed the belt, waterpump and all thats included in the cambelt package.

 

The squeeking noise is now solved.

 

Although....

As the repairman had the car up on the lift and running, he heard "metal"-noise that became louder and louder along with the enginetemp rising.

Came down to them recommending me a change of the flywheel  to a cost of 1500 gbp.

Question is if i should let them change the clutches aswell since they would already have the gearbox taken down.

 

This will be my first and last skodacar, I can tell you that much.

Edited 26 February, 2015 by kimpis

[silver1011]

What is it they are saying is wrong now? The clutch?

 

A new clutch shouldn't be that expensive?

[kimpis]

My bad, edited my post. Its the flywheel.

[JakeBlade]

I guess the labour costs are quite a bit higher in Sweden?

But yes, you should replace the clutch at the same time, as the incremental cost should pretty much be the cost of the clutch parts.

Edited 26 February, 2015 by JakeBlade

[silver1011]

The car is a 2011 model? How many miles/kilometers has it done?

 

The DMF (Dual Mass Flywheel) shouldn't be failing prematurely.

 

I'm guessing you bought the car used? It is possible to fail a DMF early depending on driving style (high load / low RPM).

 

Could it be from the previous owner?

[kimpis]

Yea it's a 2011 currently at 12800 km on it.

Bought the car used about 6 months ago, the car had previously been leased and used by 1 person up until the date of purchase.

The previous owner is a woman working at a make-up company.

[Danny 57]

Yea it's a 2011 currently at 12800 km on it.

Bought the car used about 6 months ago, the car had previously been leased and used by 1 person up until the date of purchase.

The previous owner is a woman working at a make-up company.

Is the mileage correct or should there be another 0 as in 128000, because if it is that is very low mileage for the year.

[Supurbia]

Hang up on the clutch for now, if like Danny asks and it's done 128000kms then it likely needs doing and sadly a clutch and flywheel is a wallet rape these days and neither are very well made either, if it's only 12800kms then that would indicate a bad driver (you mentioned a make up lady) and basically her driving style will have caused it to wear faster, my mother did 2 in 31000 miles on her Toyota but she rides the clutch and pulls away @ 4000 rpm, the second one lasted 3000 miles and hence why I insisted she have a DSG this time,

 

 

Now regarding the squeal noise that you think has gone away due to new timing gear, I still think they've gone looking for work, in taking the parts off they will have removed the aux belt circuit and I think that's where the culprit is and it may well return on you shortly, my Insignia does it and there are lots of owners who've like you had new timing gear and the aux belt assembly as well and it's still returned on them,

 

If it comes back again, do the tooth brush and soap trick before spending again, washing up liquid is best btw, you can simply hit the belt while it's running with hose driven cold water to remove the soap afterwards if you need to get rid of it, this will at least identify which circuit it's on if it shuts up,

 

With the clutch, the driving instructor I had when I was 18 works with me as he's also a cabby, his Octavia has done 3 clutches in 140000 miles, now his driving is about as good as it gets tbh so it just shows you how weak a modern clutch is.

[kimpis]

Is the mileage correct or should there be another 0 as in 128000, because if it is that is very low mileage for the year.

Another messup from my side, the  correct number is 128000 km as you said.

[kimpis]

Hang up on the clutch for now, if like Danny asks and it's done 128000kms then it likely needs doing and sadly a clutch and flywheel is a wallet rape these days and neither are very well made either, if it's only 12800kms then that would indicate a bad driver (you mentioned a make up lady) and basically her driving style will have caused it to wear faster, my mother did 2 in 31000 miles on her Toyota but she rides the clutch and pulls away @ 4000 rpm, the second one lasted 3000 miles and hence why I insisted she have a DSG this time,

 

 

Now regarding the squeal noise that you think has gone away due to new timing gear, I still think they've gone looking for work, in taking the parts off they will have removed the aux belt circuit and I think that's where the culprit is and it may well return on you shortly, my Insignia does it and there are lots of owners who've like you had new timing gear and the aux belt assembly as well and it's still returned on them,

 

If it comes back again, do the tooth brush and soap trick before spending again, washing up liquid is best btw, you can simply hit the belt while it's running with hose driven cold water to remove the soap afterwards if you need to get rid of it, this will at least identify which circuit it's on if it shuts up,

 

With the clutch, the driving instructor I had when I was 18 works with me as he's also a cabby, his Octavia has done 3 clutches in 140000 miles, now his driving is about as good as it gets tbh so it just shows you how weak a modern clutch is.

 

The auxbelt has been changed prior to the cambelt change, as I thought that the aux belt was the faulty one.

So that's not where the problem is.

When changing the flywheel, the most reasonable thought that comes to mind is to change the clutches aswell. Sure, the cost goes up a bit but it's still cheaper then having to adress them in a short period of time (who knows what they look like now).

As I've had contact with several other mecanics in different cities, one of them told me that they always testdrive the cars that they're about to change the flywheel on, to make sure if it's needed to change the clutches aswell.

The local Skoda repairshop on the other hand, could'nt even give me a pointer on how I can notice by myself if the clutches are in need of change or not.

[Supurbia]

I see, it can still be on the aux even if it's a new belt as it's not normally the belt that does it, it's the tensioner or a slightly out of true pulley wheel most of the time, they had troubles with them on the Insignia as well, mine does it at varied times of the year etc I just belt the top tensioner with lubrication when it does it, normally only when it's cold once warmed up it goes away,

 

Yours is a DSG?

 

Most ppl I know change the DMF but retain the clutches as they aren't the cause of the trouble, also as it's DSG the clutches get the finest gear changing anyway so all that abuse a manual clutch gets doesn't happen with a DSG unless you are unlucky to have bought some idiots car who likes to launch start the car, if it ain't slipping like a manual would and you can't smell anything rancid coming off the box area I'd take a chance and just do the flywheel myself.