...as long as I'm having more fun than he is.

That's why I decided that I don't want a turbo anymore - and so no diesel as well - and will revert to an atmo-engined warm hatch to get me around town where parking spaces are limited and cramped.

So within six months Mrs Dutch will be driving the 4x4 turbo while I will be changing to something quick, nippy and small. That's why my Fabia vRS v Fabia TDI thread at http://www.briskoda.net/forums/t24583-fabia-tdi-vs-fabia-vrs.html turned into a Fabia 2.0 discussion, and that's why I tested a Fiesta ST this weekend.

I'll keep it brief: the handling rocks, the engine bores.

Loved the seats, the close-ratio box, the short flicks of the gear lever, the understeer that only comes in very late. And I'm raving about the price.

But how come Ford can't make a decent sounding engine? I don't object to some noise but it could at least be thrilling noise. The Duratec 2-litre is simply producing raw and deafening racket. What a shame - but perhaps a completely new exhaust section (Milltek?) could work miracles. Does anyone have any experience?

Any other quick small atmo cars that I need to look at? Mini Cooper and Clio Sport are over budget, apart from the other objections I have against them, so what else is left?

Toyota Yaris? Mitsibishi Colt? No idea if they are turbo-less, but I believe they have a ride above their class.

I like the look of the new Suzuki Swift...

And I'm sure something could be done about the Fiesta engine noise. Shame the interior would be harder to sort out though. Its pants imo.

It looks nice on the outside though, and bet it handles a dream...

Agree the Swift is cool, but no GTI available as yet. :(

Have been looking into airboxes and exhaust upgrades for the ST, and it looks promising. There will be a Fiesta facelift in November with a complete interior overhaul, so I'm biding my time...

Colt CZT is a turbo, Q, and the Yaris is simply too small for my taste. The Fiesta would still be comfortable for a short family trip, using petrol on the company's tab , so that the Octy would only be really needed on vacation.

But with the Octy still around, it will be a hard choice between the two for some weekend driving fun... But it's good to have some variety (turbo vs atmo, big vs small).

Hi

I drove an old style Fiesta today for the first time in ages and can tell you that the old cars had better balance. The new Fiesta (my usual work drive) has the engine well forward and suffers as a result. You get used to it, but a drive in the last of the previous shape shows the problem up. The ST's engine noise will be harsh and nasty whatever you do, it's a Ford thing.

Apart from the Mini and the Clio (both of which you can get within your budget if the Fiesta is the price benchmark) are nice to drive. For my money, I would take the Renault if it were a company car, but would not own one privately. I honestly cannot think of many other alternatives. Yaris T Sport?

Chris

Yaris T Sport?

:agree: Also they looked great on Gran Turismo .Nice car

Suzuki Ignis Sport, cheap as chips, fun to drive, and I'd imagine fairly decent sounding too. I know what you mean when you say NA cars can often be more fun - overall I'd say the Fabia vRS was probably faster than the car I've got now, but its nowhere near as involving to drive.

Edit: Or what about the C2 VTS...

I drove an old style Fiesta today for the first time in ages and can tell you that the old cars had better balance. The new Fiesta (my usual work drive) has the engine well forward and suffers as a result. You get used to it' date=' but a drive in the last of the previous shape shows the problem up. The ST's engine noise will be harsh and nasty whatever you do, it's a Ford thing.

Apart from the Mini and the Clio (both of which you can get within your budget if the Fiesta is the price benchmark) are nice to drive. For my money, I would take the Renault if it were a company car, but would not own one privately. I honestly cannot think of many other alternatives. Yaris T Sport?

[/quote']

Thanks for your comments, Chris, but sadly, it's different for NL - here, the Mini and the Clio are 7000 euros up on the Fiesta, and I really want to stick to my budget. And even if it were a company car and wouldn't be paying for it, I couldn't take the hassle of the breakages involved with the Clio - I've seen several Clios disintegrate in time and am not looking forward to the experience.

It's a real shame about the engine sound, it spoils an otherwise excellent ride. Harsh and nasty are precisely the right words to describe it. How can Ford themselves live with it?

But it seems that Milltek has a new exhaust system on offer, and its specs look good, "by the sound of it".

I agree that a Fiesta XR2i, or Golf GTI Mk2 for that matter, are much more fun to drive but I'm stuck with buying new or ripping myself off by adding a fixed percentage of the as-new price of an aged car to my income. That's how the tax system works here...

If you can live with the terrible build issues what about a Peugeot 206, fairly chuckable even in the diesel form that I had, reliablity can be dyre though.

A 206 GTI is quite a lot of fun, I agree. I found from first-hand experience that I didn't miss the RC's horsepower for one moment.

But yes, the build issues are hard to pass by - same with the Clio, I suppose. I just shy away from French trash if I can...

Is it obvious that I want the Fiesta if it weren't for that dreadful engine sound?

For (bri)skoda's sake I'll go and test a Fabia 2.0 but then it would be just for the engine and how it goes in a Fabia. Point is: in standard guise the handling will be awfully wobbly compared to the ST, and I will only know how a KW suspension handles underneath a Fabia after I bought it - and the car to go with it...

You avoiding the Focus on the basis of cost I'm guessing?

The Fiesta handles pretty well, I'd expect it to easily outhandle the non-VRS versions of the Fabia, and probably give the vRS version a very, very good run for the money too.

To be fair I think the ST will out handle the fabia vRS, they are different cars for different jobs.

As for the sound of the ST, if it really is the only down side maybe a different "zorst" will change that.

Alfa 147?

For French read Italian too...

And too pricey for a well-specced example, same with the Focus.

An atmo Swift GTI is the only real alternative I'm holding out for at the moment, TBH. But I've heard varying noises from Suzuki dealers - one says 1600cc atmo (the rally-bred engine), the other says 1.5 Turbo

How much is the Fiesta ST over there? Just seems that the cars that you are comparing it with are quite cheap - over here the Fiesta is about

The ST is a real price-breaker here - which makes it so hard to resist.

Furby 2.0 = 17,160 euros

Yaris T-Sport (too small) = 17,190 euros

C2 VTS (too small) = 18,430 euros

Fiesta ST = 19,995 euros

Ibiza FR = 21,595 euros

206 GTI = 21,650 euros

Colt CZT = 21,999 euros

Mini Cooper Chili = 24,200 euros

Ibiza Cupra = 26,795 euros

Clio Sport = 27,100 euros

206 RC = 27,600 euros

old-school RS = 27,100 euros (when it was still available)

Mini Cooper S = 28,800 euros

Civic Type-R = 29,025 euros

See what I mean?

Looking at those prices I can see the attraction.

TBH not many manufacturers produce smallish hot hatches with large petrol atmo engines nowadays so the choice is a bit limited. Im a bit surprised that you say the Yaris is too small as I had always thought it was about the same size as the Fiesta :confused:

The Clio Sport 172 cup/182 cup weighs in at just over a ton, with the power to weight ratio and the fact it is very easy to lower the weight further you can't get much more speed for your money on a supermini hot hatch.

Oh, and when it comes on cam at 5k rpm you really will be flying!

R-Sport ECU (

Im a bit surprised that you say the Yaris is too small as I had always thought it was about the same size as the Fiesta :confused:

Fiesta is 30cm longer, so quite a bit bigger, with a much bigger boot too. I drove a Yaris as a loaner recently, and it was quite smallish in the back. Not enough room for my growing son to sit comfortably behind his tall parents...

Focus ST170.

Chris

Focus ST170.

Chris

Nah :thumbdwn:

Nah :thumbdwn:

Agreed; Too soft and cuddly IMO.

And way over budget...

The purpose of the exercise was to keep costs (i.e. income tax additions) down in order for us to continue driving the Octy 4x4 privately.