But you have to understand that from the riders point of view, it all happened very quickly and out of the blue.

Its okay saying he could of done this that and the other whilsy analysing the video time over time. But he only had a split second to make his decision and act upon it. He didnt get a 'rewind and rethink' option

 

Stop copying me (minus the split second) :p Big thing is that he did stop short having perceived the hazard, so as the truck gre bigger and bigger, it could hardly have been surprising as it had to possibilities for riders actions, it will stop or it will not.  

 

Yea the riders actions are part of the contributing factors, it's just the ultimate liability not 100% at fault (thinking more of how insurers will likely just pay up and not bother spending time/money arguing for a 50/50). Rider did perceive the hazard to a point as he stopped short of the junction, there ended his proactive actions. Easily said by us say watching it after the fact I know, but I wouldn't like to think I would have acted in the same way given the fairly lengthy amount of time he had to react. Even if I had assumed the driver would somehow see/hear me and stop, I would have not been on the bike at the point it was inevitable and too late to move. SOD THAT gamble!  

 

 

When you watch it, there isn't much of a time frame where the rider would have actually been visible to the driver and at that millisecond the driver with multiple other places to look and check failed to see him, you have lots of things to check for when making a turn like that (overhang swinging out to right and is that clear, near side for peds and cyclists is that clear etc etc). From point he begins turning in it is impossible without x-ray vision to see the biker and this continues up to the point of impact. This sort of thing is inherent with LGV's in urban areas unfortunately, but road safety remains everyone's responsibility. Rider had best view of the building situation and sat there and 'shouted' "wow, woooow" at the lorry rather than moving or using his horn to 'warn other road user of his presence' and didn't attempt to move out of it's way, after over 6 seconds of decision making time leaving the "wow" until the last moment. Driver afterwards, sought to get it all out of the way and asked biker was he alright, but at this stage you must remember, he doesn't know exactly what's happened and likely assumes rider binned it and went into him. Just one of those things, had either road user been 1 second earlier or later, it would never have happened, but the most unfortunate chain of events happened as they did. You have many blind spots and as many covered by mirrors, but you can't be physically looking at them all at the same moment. 

 

If you can't see the driver, the driver can't see you! This goes for any position not just behind. 

 

 

I think personally, anyone of us would of done the same thing.

It came out of the blue and thats that.

Ive smashed into a car before, as it pulled out on me. I hit the back wing. I cant even remember at what second i decided to hit the brakes (it stopped, waited, then pulled across infront of me at the lasy second) but i did, and i still hit it.

Its all mainly a blur now, in the final seconds before the impact, but id like to think i could of hit the back brake, locked it round, got on the power, powerslid it the other way on fill opposite lock, stood it back up and pretend nothing happened.

But in reality if it happened again id still crash into it. Just like we all would. It couldnt be helped.

I think we all agree there's a lot to be learnt from car drivers having a go on bikes (doing a CBT etc) I reckon there's just as much car/bike riders could learn from having a go in a truck.

I think we all agree there's a lot to be learnt from car drivers having a go on bikes (doing a CBT etc) I reckon there's just as much car/bike riders could learn from having a go in a truck.

True that mate. Ill openly admit i would learn alot. So would alot of folk that have never even sat in one.

So. Whos lettin me have a go in theirs then? .

But you have to understand that from the riders point of view, it all happened very quickly and out of the blue.

Its okay saying he could of done this that and the other whilsy analysing the video time over time. But he only had a split second to make his decision and act upon it. He didnt get a 'rewind and rethink' option

I'm not a truck driver, although I've driven a bus under supervision (what the supervisor could do was limitted; he had no brakes, throttle or steering), and driven a 7.5t.

 

You really think so? I realised he'd ridden more or less up to the truck's bumper down a blind arc from watching the original speeded up video, so I actually had less time to analyse than the rider did.

 

Oh yes and I'd have stopped shorter simply from realising that the truck was turning down that road and would need the full width to make the turn at all.

It's speed up? Is there a normal speed one available?

Yes in post #3

It's speed up? Is there a normal speed one available?

Ah okay.

I didnt realise that either

Hummmm, the more I watch it the more I think the motorcyclist takes some of the blame. 

 

Also; 

 

WTF? lol

Hummmm, the more I watch it the more I think the motorcyclist takes some of the blame. 

 

 

WTF? lol

That is a white Monster again, isn't it? (oh yeah and a cute black girl).

Deffo same guy, same bike too I think. 

Hummmm, the more I watch it the more I think the motorcyclist takes some of the blame.

Also;

WTF? lol

What the actual ****?

I know! Lol, looked like he was eying up the bird then just fell off?

What the actual ****?

 

 

I know! Lol, looked like he was eying up the bird then just fell off?

I think he clips the silver Note with the LH bar end? Either way, he does say it himself in the intro!

Edited 27 July, 201510 yr by KenONeill

I think he clips the silver Note with the LH bar end? Either way, he does say it himself in the intro!

I thought he panicked, grabbed a handful of the front brake, locked the front wheel and it wiped from underneath him.

Yeah, watch the slow mo and pause it as he falls, he's still a few foot away from the nissan. 3 and a half lanes of empty road he could have used, or just look where he's going a bit closer rather than smash the brake on and end up on the deck. 

Back to the truck driver. Yes Monster Man could/should have done more but the driver should have seen him at some point blind spot or not. What if it had been the old women with the pram instead?

I know about blind spots from the bus driving and how people voluntarily put themselves in them. How many times have you Guys had someone ride up the inside of you on a pushbike?

What does concern me is that he then has another go and drags the bike along the ground! What did he think was stopping him from driving forward??????

Back to the truck driver. Yes Monster Man could/should have done more but the driver should have seen him at some point blind spot or not. What if it had been the old women with the pram instead?

I know about blind spots from the bus driving and how people voluntarily put themselves in them. How many times have you Guys had someone ride up the inside of you on a pushbike?

What does concern me is that he then has another go and drags the bike along the ground! What did he think was stopping him from driving forward??????

I agree, but others wont mate haha.

People do put themselves on blindspots.

How many times have you been riding the motorbike, and another motorbike will sit to your left or right, just behind you in your blind spot, continiously?

Ive had that a few times. Bugs me haha.

Back to the truck driver. Yes Monster Man could/should have done more but the driver should have seen him at some point blind spot or not. What if it had been the old women with the pram instead?

I know about blind spots from the bus driving and how people voluntarily put themselves in them. How many times have you Guys had someone ride up the inside of you on a pushbike?

What does concern me is that he then has another go and drags the bike along the ground! What did he think was stopping him from driving forward??????

Show me an old woman in a pram that does 20 to 30 mph along a road, and there will be some point in your "what if".

She doesn't need to Ken to be in a blind spot. You can miss a car in some blind spots out the front of a bus cab. Believe me I know and it certainly makes you more aware in future but that first time can be tricky!

She doesn't need to Ken to be in a blind spot. You can miss a car in some blind spots out the front of a bus cab. Believe me I know and it certainly makes you more aware in future but that first time can be tricky!

My point is that the biker placed himself in a blind arc as soon as he saw the truck and then remained there; someone walking across the road might or might not have a head height below truck window level but they will naturally move through a specific azimuth blind arc rather than remaining in it and closing the range to the truck for several seconds. I have driven trucks and buses myself (but not for a living), and actually do 3-dimensional blind arc analysis at work, so I understand the practical problem and the underlying theory.

Then with a bit of luck Ken you will understand that people do unpredictable things and put themselves in danger and as a driver it is your responsibility to keep them safe as best you can. I agree entirely that Monster Man has contributed to his downfall by not recognising the danger and have said already that he could/should have done something to protect himself.

My point is that the driver should also have done more and is neither wholly to blame nor blameless.

To be fair, there is a massive difference in the blind spots in driving a bus/coach than a lorry. The driver is sat much lower (higher floor in truck you can't see through) and mirrors on a bus/coach are mounted higher than driver typically (on near side especially so). You also tend to on near side have a door made of glass that goes down to within a foot of the ground (truck in comparison near side window is like 6 feet off the ground at bottom.) In the instance of this video, there is no comparison in my mind between the two. Unbeknown to the biker he remained in a true blind spot throughout, it happens. Had it been an OAP lingering in road in same fashion, they would likely be dead (if deciding to stand there and stair at truck and just say "wow") and that's just how it is. Look at TFL stats for pedestrian and cyclist deaths vs lorries in the capital. Unless someone invents a glass cab with a glass engine underneath, that's just how it will remain sadly. 

Don't get me wrong I am not suggesting that it is all the driver's fault, in fact said as much already. I, many years ago witnessed an old lady ride her pushbike up the inside of a rigid tipper as he was turning left. There was no way he could have seen her and she was trapped between his rear wheels. She died very quickly!

Drivers of all kinds of vehicles are regularly tested by the ineptness of other road users hence the what made you angry while driving thread. Luckily on this occasion there was no serious injury and I suppose the best we can hope for is that the two involved and those of us who have seen the footage learn something from it.

None of us are perfect and we can and do make mistakes but as long as we learn from them and no one is hurt it is all part of being a motorist.

Oh and while I accept what you say Furby about the differences between a bus and lorry as regards visibility down the nearside there isn't that much difference on a wet day when all the windows and door are steamed up!

Then with a bit of luck Ken you will understand that people do unpredictable things and put themselves in danger and as a driver it is your responsibility to keep them safe as best you can. I agree entirely that Monster Man has contributed to his downfall by not recognising the danger and have said already that he could/should have done something to protect himself.

My point is that the driver should also have done more and is neither wholly to blame nor blameless.

 

 

To be fair, there is a massive difference in the blind spots in driving a bus/coach than a lorry. The driver is sat much lower (higher floor in truck you can't see through) and mirrors on a bus/coach are mounted higher than driver typically (on near side especially so). You also tend to on near side have a door made of glass that goes down to within a foot of the ground (truck in comparison near side window is like 6 feet off the ground at bottom.) In the instance of this video, there is no comparison in my mind between the two. Unbeknown to the biker he remained in a true blind spot throughout, it happens. Had it been an OAP lingering in road in same fashion, they would likely be dead (if deciding to stand there and stair at truck and just say "wow") and that's just how it is. Look at TFL stats for pedestrian and cyclist deaths vs lorries in the capital. Unless someone invents a glass cab with a glass engine underneath, that's just how it will remain sadly. 

I think we're all arguing from a position of some experience as a pedestrian, of 2-wheelers, of cages and of heavies. Any disagreement is over how much more MonsterMan and the trucker could have done.

 

MonsterMan can clearly see the truck from several seconds away, and basically does nothing until the collision is inevitable.

 

Meanwhile the trucker is trying to check the positions of both of his RH corners, the LH of the bogie, 2 pedestrians, and possibly (from camera) R to L traffic on the road he's turning off. Now some of us are arguing that he also needs to duck forwards and backwards to reduce his RH A-post blind arc.