Yes, I'll agree that those rain gutters were real wheel traps, but wasn't the worst accident a "high side" while the bike was still on the tarmac?

Still a nasty crash, not helped by the fact she landed in those gutters.  Either way it was gonna hurt!

Agreed; my point was that that specific accident could have happened coming out of pretty much any descending hairpin rather than being caused by the edge "finishing" on this road.

Agreed; my point was that that specific accident could have happened coming out of pretty much any descending hairpin rather than being caused by the edge "finishing" on this road.

True enough, road was starting to get greasy too which didn't help. Descending is always a massive risk and as in other racing formats those who calculate it better come out in top. Always horrible to see a crash like that though knowing how much crashes hurt. She basically landed on her head it seemed, was pretty worried. Nibali broke 2 collar bones...ouch. It's a funny one because you could say the road was too dangerous, but it was the same for everyone and the road doesn't move. Glad she's on the mend though.

True enough, road was starting to get greasy too which didn't help. Descending is always a massive risk and as in other racing formats those who calculate it better come out in top. Always horrible to see a crash like that though knowing how much crashes hurt. She basically landed on her head it seemed, was pretty worried. Nibali broke 2 collar bones...ouch. It's a funny one because you could say the road was too dangerous, but it was the same for everyone and the road doesn't move. Glad she's on the mend though.

I'm not even saying that the descent wasn't dangerous given those wheel traps. I'm saying that talking about Annemeik Van Vleuten crash as showing that the course was dangerous when you weren't using the same language after the men's race when several people seemed to have demonstrated the special hazard of that descent and we positively knew that her's wasn't caused by that hazard is wrong.

Agreed; my point was that that specific accident could have happened coming out of pretty much any descending hairpin rather than being caused by the edge "finishing" on this road.

 

There's two issues, did the road layout & design contribute to the cause of the crash and/or the consequences?

It certainly looked very difficult to race on with tight corners and plenty of white lines, but not necessarily trickier than some sections of road I've seen professional races on.

What did seem unacceptable is how much worse it made the consequences in the event of a crash, with very nasty looking foot high concrete curbs. There could have been soft crash barriers on each hairpin for example.

Perhaps put some tread on the tyres, slicks on a damp course,  I ask you. All seasons might have worked

Edited 8 August, 20169 yr by Auric Goldfinger

Perhaps put some tread on the tyres, slicks on a damp course,  I ask you. All seasons might have worked

It wasn't wet at the start and you're not going to run a slower tyre just in case it rains 6 hours later.

I'm not even saying that the descent wasn't dangerous given those wheel traps. I'm saying that talking about Annemeik Van Vleuten[/size] crash as showing that the course was dangerous when you weren't using the same language after the men's race when several people seemed to have demonstrated the special hazard of that descent and we positively knew that her's wasn't caused by that hazard is wrong.

I get ya. Boardman was concerned as soon as he saw the course but what can he do? Like I inferred Nibali's crash was particularly nasty, not sure what happened to Geraint but it appeared the edges may have been to blame there. A lot more went down in the men's race for sure, think it was how van vleuten's crash (mainly landing) looked and being left out cold at the roadside was pretty shocking. Let's not forget riders have died on Le Tour having crashes just like that, landing on your head is never ideal. However I don't think the course was entirely to blame. She was sliding in no man's land uneffected by the edges, it was a fairly common descending crash, but the way she flipped over left me concerned.

There's two issues, did the road layout & design contribute to the cause of the crash and/or the consequences?

It certainly looked very difficult to race on with tight corners and plenty of white lines, but not necessarily trickier than some sections of road I've seen professional races on.

What did seem unacceptable is how much worse it made the consequences in the event of a crash, with very nasty looking foot high concrete curbs. There could have been soft crash barriers on each hairpin for example.

Have you ever seen similar air barriers on a descent in the Alps, or the Pyrenees? I'm not even certain that I've seen the nylon mesh "catch nets" in Europe.

It wasn't wet at the start and you're not going to run a slower tyre just in case it rains 6 hours later.

I get ya. Boardman was concerned as soon as he saw the course but what can he do? Like I inferred Nibali's crash was particularly nasty, not sure what happened to Geraint but it appeared the edges may have been to blame there. A lot more went down in the men's race for sure, think it was how van vleuten's crash (mainly landing) looked and being left out cold at the roadside was pretty shocking. Let's not forget riders have died on Le Tour having crashes just like that, landing on your head is never ideal. However I don't think the course was entirely to blame. She was sliding in no man's land uneffected by the edges, it was a fairly common descending crash, but the way she flipped over left me concerned.

I think we're pretty much in agreement; VV's crash looked nasty (IMO) as much due to her having high-sided as anything else, and that was down to the rear wheel skid and bite (they're relatively common in motorcycle racing after all) rather than the road edges.

Perhaps put some tread on the tyres, slicks on a damp course,  I ask you. All seasons might have worked

I didn't see those specific tyres in detail, but road-race tyres normally do have a "herringbone" pattern, just not one that's deep enough to see if the bikes are moving.

I think we're pretty much in agreement; VV's crash looked nasty (IMO) as much due to her having high-sided as anything else, and that was down to the rear wheel skid and bite (they're relatively common in motorcycle racing after all) rather than the road edges.

Yeah that's it, her loss of traction was pretty common, but her landing was nasty and was sprawled over those edges even though they weren't to blame in that instance. Not taking anything away from the technicality of the descent perhaps being an issue, that's the course it was and it had to be ridden as such. There weren't many other incidents in the women's race so most seemed to calculate risk just fine.