Hot engine hot air intake

[djape92]

Hey guys me again, I already told you about having engine parts replaced etc I also replaced water regulator and sensor for cabin temperature to show me the right temp in any time... What happens is that as it warms up and as I drive it gets really hot, plastic that protects the engine, air intake, electronic air generator.. everything.. few days ago I have found some oil in air line from air filter to the intake system, so I guess that's the reason for overheated intake, not sure... It also leaves white cream on the oil cap... I didn't see fans working and the pipe from radiator to the engine is hot almost as the engine to radiator is.... That's perspective from engine bay... Now cabin, in cabin it's all good .. it shows 90 degrees C,  working temp which is great, but I noticed that I had my air conditioning turned off but I was still getting heat, like I lightly left it on.... As I rev high it gives me slithe burning smell as something is burning but lightly ... Any ideas how to fix or what to look for ? Engine is 1.6 petrol bfq 96-04 and 75kw 

 

[kentphil1]

Have you had a combustion gas test done through the cooling system to check if you have a possible head gasket issue?.

 

This just a generic vid to show the process -

 

This would be wher i would start if you are not losing cooant anywhere obvious.

 

Hope it helps

[djape92]

yeah the thing is i dont lose coolant at all, i just get the really hot oil spilled out to my intake hose to be sucked into throttle body, but it messed up my air sensor so i cleaned all that ... the thing about the situation is that engine head is really hot, everything is hot while its running for a while even air filter box and platic cover for the engine .... it wasnt like that until now .... but as i said ... the mechanic told me that they did all new gaskets on the engine, head gasket, oil pan gasket, crankshaft gaskets, since it wasnt lubricated as i had an accident the engine was stuck at the crankshaft and they had to replace all gaskets and trim the engine block and align everything so it can spin again.... they told me that there is nothing special about the head gasket and that its nothing special about mounting that it just clamps and sticks together with the engine block and engine head .... but i still get white cream under oil cap and it runs really hot even tho we changed the thermostat so my guess is eather i have blown my head gasket was set or i have blown the head of the engine or something since there is no leaks visible, but it runs hot .... when i sniffed the oil cap i wasnt sure if its only oil or oil and gas mixed, is that even possible to be ? should i try engine compression test or ?

[djape92]

Also i dont know how would i do a test like that since i dont have that hole on my radiator... i have platic bottle with antifreeze in and radiator has horisontal plastics hor hose nad clamps so its sealed in and out .... i would be loosing antifreeze and pressure if i tryed it that way, i can do it at the bottle place... but i dont know where to buy tester like that here in bosnia, never saw it on any shelf here, so that might be a small issue

[kentphil1]

You would check your car from the plastic bottle expasion tank, as I said, the vid was purely to give you an idea of the science behind it rather than as a "How To Do It" video.

 

If you can't get them in Bosnia, that does present a bit of a problem. I suppose you could go "old school" and ask if your local garage could do a cylinder leakage test if they have the equipment.

 

Just a couple of questions though, first, do you do a lot of short journeys where the car only just gets up to temperature?. Secondly, did they check that the cylinder head face had no warping/distortion before they refitted the cylinder head?. I suppose lastly, are they sure that they expelled all the airlocks from the coolant before they returned the car to you?.

 

A compression test is bit more basic than a leakage test or a combustion test which tend to be more accurate in their diagnosis of a fault like yours. You may well be producing compression enough to give an adequate reading, but that compression could be pressurising the coolant to be drawn into the block - although once the engine had cooled you would normally see a drop in coolant level afterwards.

 

Have your garage checked that the engine breather was serviceable when they had the engine in bits?.

[djape92]

They did the head alignment and trimmed the distorted areas as they were processing engine block, but i dont remember them doing anything about engine breather.... They just said that engine would burn more oil because of stuck  piston oil rings which dont expand, they are just stuck in and wont loosen... Soo i dont know if thats the reason why i have this overheating stuff going on and bit of burning smell into the cabin on higher revs like 3k plus... Also i do a lot of short routes - 30 kilometers going on my work and back home. I dont know about airlocks, since they were doing it for more than a month, i suppose they did that, also they did change the termostat and the sensor few days after when i came in their shop cuz radiator intake hose poped off for a second time - from coolant pressure, now hoses are tight, but the heat is there and no coolant loss... But as i lost coolant and was really close to them like a kilometer or so, i drove there and they told me that they are affraid of engine head being blown, they changed the thermostat and hoped for the best, i did hear some water boiling at the top and rear engine side but that stopped as we changed thermostat gained the flow... Still we had like 102-105 degrees C at the engine on the computer readings.... So it becomes really hot now but doesnt lose coolant

[kentphil1]

I'm obviously a late arrival to your previous issues, but I have to ask, why did the repairer not fit new pistons and rings/rebore the block if necessary, if the old rings were stuck?. It seems rather a strange course of action if they already had the engine in pieces.

 

[djape92]

Because if they were to repair the other half of the engine it would cost double, and i barely had the money for fixing this issue that was crucial, im still paying the bank for that.... But the thing that i dont understand is why didnt they remove carbon from pistons and valves since they could i dunno... So it was mainly the finance issue... Since i had a vechile registration needed to be done back than and i needed car for comming to work, i needed to fix it fast and for minimum cost

[djape92]

Anyway, we have got waay off topic... Is there anything i can do now to fix the slithe overheating issue or not ? Btw when i open the engine bay i smell engine oil even tho i didnt see leakage anywhere i could send you some pics if needed

[kentphil1]

The oil smell is most likely a bi product of the stuck rings, and is probably also causing you the oil in the intake issue as the crankcase pressurises with blowby past the stuck rings. Whilst this will cause rough running, smells and possibly excess oil use, it should not have a direct bearing on the overheating, unless you are weakening the fuel mix down so far with the oil fumes, that the engine management cannot compensate. Without seeing the car physically, that is a difficult one to diagnose at a distance. Have they checked that your cooling fans are actually cutting in?.

 

Do you know anyone local to you with a hand held infra red temperature gun, that can actually take a reading off of the engine to see how hot it is actually getting?, or somebody with VCDS to do a reading on what temperature the car is actually achieving as against what the gauge is showing?. If you can get somebody with VCDS, I would get them to log what the fuel air ratio is doing as well, as this will tell you if the rings are having more of an effect than they should be.

Really without more data from some basic tests, it is difficult to guide you much further without some mechanical test questions being answered first.

 

The one thing that is hovering in the back of my mind is that if the oil change regime was so patchy as to allow sticking of the rings, then it is highly possible also that a coolant passageway has blocked from maybe patchy coolant changes as well. Has the garage checked to see that you are getting good coolant return into the expansion bottle when the engine is running?, this would be an indication of the circulation from the water pump and may give some guidance there also.

 

These are all very basic diagnostic checks for a garage to do, and I would hope that any half decent mechanic would do these checks after you reported further issues with excess heat without even really thinking about it.

 

I hope I have given you some things to think about, hope it helps.

 

 

[djape92]

For now it helps a lot... Well they did open and hand pressed the hoses to see if the thermostat opened and there were slithe bubles as he pressed and released to the circulation is fairly ok.... But i didnt see fans working ... Eather they dont cool or i dont look at them at the right time :S

[kentphil1]

Squeezing the hoses does not really check the water pump circulation, the best way is to get the car from cold, remove the coolant cap, check the coolant level is correct, leave the cap off, start the car and get someone to hold the car at a fast idle - 1200 - 1500rpm is about all you need to do this,

 

If you look inside the coolant bottle, you should see a fairly strong return flow coming back into the tank via the small bore hose near the tank neck. If it is poor or non existant, you may have a failing watyer pump impeller or god forbid, a passage blockage.

 

But before doing any of this, I would make sure the fans actually work. With the car switched off and the keys removed from the car, can you move the fan blades by hand or are they siezed solid?.

[djape92]

They do move by hand altho there is a bit of ressistance, but i didnt see them moving as it heats up, maybe the sensor doesnt tell the computer to turn on the fans at the right temp. which is weird since they did change some temp sensor, maybe thats one for the cabin .... orrr it can be electrical grounding which did blow a safety relay for fan which was also changed ..... but i didnt write here one important thing, i did put some engine oil into engine before it has gotten wild ... maybe i overfilled the engine oil, so the catayitic converter has gone bad and is pressuring back heat and exhaust gasses into engine ... im not sure about this since i didnt do any tests nor i have the equipment for those tests, but i wasnt sure if the oil pan was full enough so i did put extra littre into it .... later on i saw label not to do that to avoid damage to catalytic converter but i didnt see any of the bad signs of engine working, its just i accidently stopped to see coolant level and brake fluid level - usual stuff and while inspecting i felt that in engine bay is hotter than usual ... any toughts on that topic ? is it possible that its going to work a little hotter and try to compensate for the oil and burn more oil at higher engine temp so it doesnt damage catalytic converter or it has allready damaged it in some way ... is it possible situation if i filled little bit more than max engine oil level ?

 

Thanks a lot for the tip on the coolant test, and i did change water pump recently like year or two ago and the mechanic told me that he saw that it was new, so my bet would be passage blockage if it doesnt buble in the coolant tank.

The reason why i dont mess with the fans yet is trying to avoid somebody turning on AUTO on airconditioning since it does turn on, at least it did few months before, the smaller vent but it also puts 20 degrees C temp for cabin. Since this mechanic didnt have floud for a airconditioning compressor to fill up after he dissassembled it he told me to use hot only. that makes harder to diagnose the fans problem since you cant that that smaller vent like that. what i could do actually is to check for electricity comming to the vents themselfs to see if they are supported with it correctly, which i will do these days when i find some free time. 

 

I think i did give all the info about this issue this time so its easier to diagnose since issues on a car are a bit complex since everything is evolved and every little thing has its purpose and fault of that part gives more signs and symthoms so it makes it harder to diagnose, but i hope i gave some important infos for consideration and to look at for better decision on what i should do next ... first i will do the 2 tests fan electrical and coolant test to check those two things out of the way since they dont cost me a thing to do

[kentphil1]

It is difficult to advise you without further info on the points raised earlier really. It would seem that your mechanic has had an influence over many areas that could be causing your issue, it is difficult at a distance to sort what is an issue and what is a created one.

 

I would not think adding oil to the engine will cause a cat based issue unled you poured in a massive quantity over the limit, although over a longer term you may cause issues pressurising the oils seals in the lower crankcase, I would sort the level issue as soon as is sensible to do so.

 

The cooling fans use a control unit that shares operation with the air con, so I would be certain your mechanic has not compromised any power feeds to that unit, as the fans will cease to function correctly.

 

Try to get a bit more info, and we may be able to get you a bit further along the road to a cure.

Edited 22 March, 2018 by kentphil1

[djape92]

Hey its been a while and i had a job rush over the easter holidays so i dint do much, but i have tested the a

Coolant flow as mentioned before at fast idle and it is getting coolant back to the bottle, vents do spin by hand but i never saw them spin by themselves... I already had this problem before and the guy told me that the relay was faulty and ground which is under the battery is corosive so thatwas the reason why it wasnt spinning... So last summer it did spin but over the winter it may become more corosive and made the same problem again... Should i check underneath battery for inspection or i would waste time dissassembling whole battery with battery case... Does that have sense at all ? Could that be a possible problem for vents to operate ? And which unit tells them on which temp to turn on... Can that be controlled ? By ECU with the computer or ?

Edited 8 April, 2018 by djape92
Picture

[djape92]

I dont think pressure is the issue since its burning oil already the level will fall down quickly and the pressure will most likely be between piston, stuck ring for oil and the engine block than the cranckcase so the oil isnt problem for now, vents are my problem to cool down this engine since it operates strange at start, its rough and rpms jump to fast idle and after few mins get to low idle, and as it fast idles if i drive its rough and lights dims - go lower and back up like battery cant handle the jobs it has and as it drops low idle it dissapears.... Not sure if its normal xS

[djape92]

since i wasnt sure, i decided to go for a long trip to test it... and i went from brčko to belgrade which is 250 kilometers, and when i parked the car i checked for temp under the hood on intake manifold it was normal... that means that my fans dont work properly since their job is to cool if im at stop or whatever... after i let it work for a while just parked temp went up fast and i didnt see fan kick in to regulate temp. soo i think i have solved this one.. not sure cuz in cabin i still feel fast temp ups cuz of the heater, but i think fans are the problem here. So if anyone has the same problem check the fans first, thanks a lot!