Right... after some deep financial analysis, post insignia death,

i have a budget. 

I have requirements.

I have a short list of found vehicles.

I have a comparison table done.

I have test driven one so far (surprisingly decent)

 

I have a conundrum.

Budget and space allows me, in general terms, to get a 2013 regged car, however, theres a few exceptions ive found after much trawling.

 

All are 1.6 diesels

 

 

The mk3 octy combi doesnt have the milage on the ad, will be ringing about it tomorrow, i didnt see it until last night.

 

The mk2 octy hatch has the lowest milage, but is 2yrs older than the others. But its very local. Goi g for look and drive tomorrow after work.

 

The only one ive driven so far, and discussed price on is the Cee'd. It comes out best on everything except milage, and theres a few dings on passenger side, no other real damage, they have a new boot liner on order as the old one was quite marked. Asking price is 10700, but i have him 9800, with a bit more wriggle room, reckoi could get it down to 9500 if i push hard enough.. Its in a kia dealer, was a locally owned business reps car, thus the miles (kilometers actually) andboot floor damage. Will be tested, serviced and 1yr warranty.

 

Ive driven a couple of similar age focus estates as hire cars, but the 95bhp one for sale is low spec and less than what our fleet cars have (the much more powerful 115bhp ones ), need to ring about it tomorrow too.

 

Help....

Age or milage...  which will hold better value.

Which will be least likely to wreck my head with problems...

 

 

Edited 5 April, 20197 yr by mac11irl
Extra info. The search finished on 5/4/19

1 hour ago, mac11irl said:

Age or milage...  which will hold better value.

 

Buyers typically look at age first then mileage (kilometerage?).  Some while back Glass' Guide was suggesting discounting a vehicle by 3% per 10,000 miles over the "average" mileage - 10k/year at the time.

 

I'd suggest you think about how long you would want to keep the car and your expected annual mileage.  Add that multiple to the current mileage and you'll have an idea of the expected mileage at end of life with you.  Parkers and Autotrader both offer typical valuations on used cars so you can input the car and future mileage and get an idea of future value (bearing in mind that the valuations they give are for selling today).  It's not an exact science but should give you some ideas.

 

I'd also look at real world fuel mileages (reviews often give this) and typical service costs and intervals.  This will all feed into estimated total cost of ownership and thus help further with the choosing.

 

Ill put it this way... 

If i was going bangernomics route, id be buying the youngest 1.9 tdi mk1 octy i could source without a care about the odo as long as its more than 10k from needing a timing belt change, as i know it would be fairly bullet proof, and all the little niggly stuff ive had before, so wouldnt bother me.

An average miles mk2 worth the same as a 2yr younger, probably much higher miles mk3 combi?? I dunno. Spec lists are almost identical, though the mk2 has leather and "wood" dash trim.

 

I know kia's rep has improved, but is it good enough to take on a fairly high odo (out of manufacturer warranty 2 yrs early high...) one? Theres 20k km more on it than there was on the siggy when i bought it at just shy 8yrs old..

 

And.. a probably under powered, above average miles focus... tbf they are a bit of pot luck historically, could be in a garage repeatedly or could run Forever and never really have an issue..

Right... ive narrowed the field...

The mk3 combi was sold on Saturday morning, and also had 215k km on the clock. Thus the price.

And The focus is under powered, and too far away even for an "independent car sales" warranty to be of benefit.

 

 

So.... im going local after work for a test drive and some serious negotiations on the mk2 octy... 

 

Update to follow tonight...

My main question with the mk2 Octavia is whether you can live with the butt-ugly front end. I had considered one during my search a few years ago, especially since VRS models were within my budget, but at the end of the day I couldn't live with that facelift. There are a good few independent dealers now that import from the UK to order - might be worth a chat with one of them to see what they could get you?

I will be doing that if i dont get enough deal making later on

 

i suppose the peace of mind buying it from a local dealer whom i actually trust (got my old mk1 and swmbo's Citigo in the same place..)  weighs into the equation too..

 

i know the pre FL mk2 is probably better looking, but.. i prefer it to the mk3, other than vrs trim..

Well, I've driven Octy mk1 and mk2 (similar engines) over the same roads on the same day. The mk1 is a nicer car to drive, and at pretty much anything I can think of except rear seat legroom IMO.

14 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Well, I've driven Octy mk1 and mk2 (similar engines) over the same roads on the same day. The mk1 is a nicer car to drive, and at pretty much anything I can think of except rear seat legroom IMO.

 

 

I know.. but the mk1 is 3 1/2 times as much as a mk2 in road tax... and being "more than 10yrs old" at risk of insurance loading, and only be available as 3rd party due to min value requirements for full comp :(

 

I've been away from the UK since 2004 so know nothing about VED rates but during that time I have registered and paid the equivalent of VED on both a MK1 which was less than 10 years old at the time and a MK2 more than 10 years old.

 

Could you tell me what the current VED costs would be on the vehicles as it would be very interesting to compare, it seems to me that the UK is constantly trying to get people to buy new vehicles with low or zero VAD rates whilst hiking them for older ones and then stuffing up the rates for the new ones when they are a couple of years old.

 

Over here its half the price once a vehicle becomes over 10 years old but without knowing the cost in the UK that is meaningless. Large  high powered vehicles really get hammered with a penalty charge which can be thousands of Euros and has to be paid again by the purchaser when its sold on.

10 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I've been away from the UK since 2004 so know nothing about VED rates but during that time I have registered and paid the equivalent of VED on both a MK1 which was less than 10 years old at the time and a MK2 more than 10 years old.

 

Could you tell me what the current VED costs would be on the vehicles as it would be very interesting to compare, it seems to me that the UK is constantly trying to get people to buy new vehicles with low or zero VAD rates whilst hiking them for older ones and then stuffing up the rates for the new ones when they are a couple of years old.

 

Over here its half the price once a vehicle becomes over 10 years old but without knowing the cost in the UK that is meaningless. Large  high powered vehicles really get hammered with a penalty charge which can be thousands of Euros and has to be paid again by the purchaser when its sold on.

Some of us, OP included, live in Ireland.

 

For vehicles first registered before 2008, motor tax is based on engine size, with a 1.9 being around €700 per year. For vehicles registered after that it's based on CO2 emissions, which has left most diesels much cheaper to tax. The full list of rates is here: https://www.carzone.ie/news/motoringadvice/Motor-and-Road-Tax-Prices-Ireland-2017-1437.html

Crikey I had no idea.

 

My 2006 1.9Tdi cost €105.76 to register being over 10 years old,  which is effectively the VED but paid once only, so if I keep the vehicle 10 years it works out at €10 per year, that is some difference in cost!

 

The MK1 in 2005 cost about the same as the VED was then in the UK, €170 rings a bell but its a long time ago, it would not have been more and may even have been less, I kept it for 14 years so got the most out of it.

 

Are pre 2008  vehicles like the 1.9 TDi much cheaper in Ireland than the UK?

 

Mine was already dirt cheap to buy in the UK in my terms and would have cost 5 times as much here in France if it were even possible to find one, 100's available to my precise criterai within a 100km radius in the UK, nothing across the whole of France except newer much more expensive vehicles in dealer showrooms and only a handfull of them.

 

There may be an opportunity awaiting.

Edited 1 April, 20197 yr by J.R.

Prices here tend to be higher than most other European countries due to the imposition of VRT on new cars. It's an additional tax on top of VAT, essentially the retention of customs duty under a different name after the EU abolished intra-EU customs charges. Because it's charged when the car is new, it percolates down through the used market. It's payable on imports too but with the UK market being so oversupplied, it's easy to pick up a bargain there and still have the car for less on the driveway here compared to buying locally. I save about €3k on my Superb importing it from the UK. Greater selection makes UK shopping a good option too IME.

29 minutes ago, chimaera said:

 with the UK market being so oversupplied, it's easy to pick up a bargain there and still have the car for less on the driveway here compared to buying locally. I save about €3k on my Superb importing it from the UK. Greater selection makes UK shopping a good option too IME.

 

For now.... 

So even though the VED is so expensive for a 10+ year old car the second hand price remains high?

 

The VED equates to what I paid for my car in the UK, I could understand the high value if its effectively a closed market, that its very hard to import a vehicle from the UK, that there are few vehicles available, that the VED is not penalising, all those are true here in France but certainly 2 of them dont seem to be the case in Ireland.

 

I am just surprised that people are still purchasing 10+ year old vehicles that cost €700 per year in VED even for next to nothing, what sort of price does a 10+ year old Octavia or Superb command there?

 

Editted, the import tax on second hand vehicles perhaps explains it.

Edited 1 April, 20197 yr by J.R.

Update... drove the octy. 

Its not as quiet as the ceed, but doesnt feel any less punchy though. 

The interior is mint condition. 

Trim is "Exclusive" aka, run out spec that got the parts bin thrown at it to use up the bits and flog the chassis (chassii? Not sure..) So it has perfect 1/2 leather seats, 16" alloys, amundsen+ stereo (cd,mp3, bluetooth, satnav etc), cruise control, lot more cubbies and storage. Sounds stupid but i miss having the little pay n display clip

 

One Corner of bumper is marginally pulled, like a bag strap snagged on it. And theres a tidgy clear coat scratch on the passenger side of rear rub stip. Thats the only marks i could see. Unlike the 5-6dings along the passenger side and small rust spot on underside of boot hatch on the ceed, that could cost me (even with panel beater uncle's family rates) a couple of hundred quid to sort. 

 

The money...

List 10700, down from 11700.

He reckons the best he can do is 10500 with -

Full service, timing belt and water pump done, 2yr NCT, 12month warranty, a set of tyres.

 

The ceed..

I reckon id get to 9600, 12month warranty, service, nct, but accept the dings for now...

 

Gonna let him stew for a day, and see if he can find more wriggle room..

 

Any honda around?

 

I got a silly warranty on a 4yr old Accord estate that wasn't much more than this.

3yr unlimited mileage on all parts (bar the usual brakes etc) for £250.

 

It was a monsterous big thing but quite nice to drive.

I had considered an accord, but all in budget are 2 old.

 

He still doesnt want to go below 10500... yet... it was tested yesterday though

 

Im slightly ashamed to say this, but i went for test today in a 

Renault

megane

gt line

estate

1.5 dci

2014, 70k km

Very well specced, leather and toys

Bucket seats are really well bolstered and huggy. Wouldnt want to be a big lad though.. pretty friggin tight if youd more than 36" inch waist!

 

It drove better than i thought it would but i walked away. I know the newer k9k variant of that engine is actually surprisingly reliable, but i couldnt live with it. Id just be waiting for electrical bits to break, and the gear change is... loose.. and typically french.

 

In a sense im glad i did it though.. i now know what i always felt but never confirmed... i dont want a renault in my life

 

It looks like the octy is going to win this, but i just want a little more give in the price.. it pride and principle now.. i dont want to give the guy exactly what he wants...

I had an older version of that engine the first 100hp edition in a 2004 clio (registered 31/12/2003 which always made insurance a pita since the model didn't technically exist). Engine never missed a beat in 80k+ miles although it did regularly need treatment to keep the soot down even with lots of steady miles, I hit 86mpg on one trip.

 

However the rest of the car steadily crumbled around the engine. I think the electrics were made of wet string. Actually most of the car was made of wet string I think. POS.

Well yesterday was spent organising and accumulating my financial position.

 

Heading to dealer later today  to finalise a deal on the Octy

 

 

Theres nothing like a stack of ready cash to make people feel a bit more inclined to deal...

 

I broke him down to just above my number but below his... which is all i wanted out of pure boldness 

 

Being work shopped on wednesday for 

Full service inc timing belt and brake, tyres.

Rub out a couple of clear coaty bits.

Valet

1yr 10k warranty

Collection on Thursday

 

I took half the cash away with me until then

 

back in a octy, back to 2 skoda drive.

 

i can put my Retro brisky stickers on next week!

 

New lump

 

2 Silver Skud Driveway... and both 2013 regged

 

Wood and leather...

 

 

Dual Zone Climate, Nav etc...

 

I am a Happy Bunny.

 

Esp as head mechanic wasnt happy with one of the rear calipers yesterday when they changed discs and pads, so he put a new one on this morning before collection

 

Now... where to put me Brisky Stickers..