Hey all, my 1.2 htp petrol had to go in for its MOT and I thought I'd get an interim service at the same time as it had a full Skoda service last year before I bought it.

 

Taking it to a independent garage.

 

Me being slightly Sceptical of a new garage I put a mark on the oil filter cap. 

It doesn't have a whole oil filter that gets replaced, instead the filter lives under a cap with a 36mm nut on top (don't know it's proper name) 

Any way I put a small mark on the nut and when I got home and checked the nut the mark was in exactly the same place.

Am I right in saying the the cap sits against a rubber o-ring so if it had been removed the mark should be in a different place? 

Or does the cap sit against a shoulder, so in fact the mark would be in the same place?

 

Also checking the dip stick the oil doesn't seem that fresh. I know it will dilute a bit with some of the old oil left over but should it look new? It was only a 5 Mile trip from the garage to home. 

 

Am I being paranoid. 

Even if it wasn't done how could I prove it?

Did you ask for it to be serviced?

An independent garage asked to MOT a car will do just that, unless you ask to have more done (or they suggest it and you agree).

The o-ring is a radial seal, so yes, the cap will tend to get to roughly the same point each time when the plastic cap bottoms out on the housing, but that would depend very much on how heavy-handed or otherwise the person doing the oil change is.

The chances of a torque wrench being used are fairly low, I'd think.

Hi as above the mark may well line back up but there is no way to be absolutely sure the work was done, you need to find a garage you do trust to carry out work. What do you mean the oil doesnt seem fresh? colour ?  

Cheers for the replies guys. 

 

Yes asked and paid to have an interim service as well as the mot.

 

The oil at the end of the dip stick seems the same as it was before the service. 

 

The car had a major serviced 11 months ago and has only done 4 thousand miles since then, so the oil wasn't in bad shape.

 

I'm probably just being paranoid as I had a bad experience with another garage which is why I used a different garage this time. 

 

 

 

Does the invoice include a replacement filter cartridge? If not, then maybe that wasn't changed, and there'd be half a litre or so of old oil caught by that. So how much oil were you invoiced for?

 

Also personal account. One mate of mine got fed up with this guy who kept marking parts when he put the car in for service. So he marked the new replacements, and the final work line on the invoice read "To painting parts as per originals - Labour 1 hour".

Yeah was charged for a filter and 2.8L of oil.

Also got charged for 1L of screen wash even though I topped it up last week, so a little miffed by that too.

 

If the filter was a cartridge type it would be much easier to tell if they had changed it.

 

I'm just going by the mark on the nut but like said it may well have landed in the same place.

 

From servicing bikes the oil stays looking new for a while after a change but not sure if it's different for cars.

@Hattori_Hanzo

How much was this 'Interim Service' & MOT ?

 

What is on the Invoice, Sump Plug, Oil, Filter, Windscreen Wash, Pollen Filter?

 

You only needed a Oil Change Service and check & Report it seems.   I hope you have not paid for an Interim Service and not got a Pollen Filter changed.

 

If you never needed Windscreen Wash and they never supplied it ask for a refund, they charged VAT and pocketed that if No Bottle of the Fluid not used in your car.

That is actually theft and receiving money by false pretences. 

They keep doing it.

£150 for the mot and service.

 

Included every thing you listed except the pollen filter.

 

They may well have topped the wind screen wash up but I doubt they fit a litre in there. Again no way of proving they did or didn't.

 

I had every intention of servicing the car myself this year but just don't have the time at the moment.

Will be doing the next one myself and just forgo the stamp.

OK, it doesn't excuse anything, but I've had charges for screenwash N litres, and had a part used bottle of screenwash in the boot when I collected the car.

@Hattori_Hanzo

 

 

Not an 'Interim Service'  then, 

just a 'Oil & Filter and Servicing of some sort, 

 and with the MOT if only £150 that is not a bad price from a VAT registered establishment IMO.

I'd assume if your oil filter was the cartridge type and you had no sign of oil leaking b4 the service, then your mark would still be in the same place as the cartridge case would need to be tight. Oil changes are something I always do myself, partly for the reason you say. Normally like to leave the car draining for good 30mins to get as much of old oil out, something a garage wouldn't have time to do. Having said that have been known to do it in supermarkets car park while wife does shopping when pushed for time!

There is a reason many will not drain for that long, 

& rather have an engine / oil at Operating Temperature and use a Pump to remove the oil, then remove the Sump Plug and let any residual drain and fit a new sump plug.

H&S, and number they do, and the training they get as a Technician / Fitter.

 

Draining for 30 minutes is the thing that killed plenty of TSI engines with the Chain Tensioner issues.

Edited 24 August, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

Ok, understand the time factor for garages but how does trying to get as much old oil out as poss kill engines?

Because with hydraulic chain tensioners it has, and with some engines being like chocolate as well to take less risks.

 

The oil is hot and removed and when you remove the sump plug you see how little more comes out, that is the oil removed,

job done no need for sitting draining cold engine oil.

 

The thing is different folks do different things and that is OK if DIY but when on others vehicles you do what you are supposed to do, 

or what your employer expects to be done.

 

If you are interested in posts by Luciffer on 1.4TSI Twinchargers which is a different engine altogether there is a pinned thread at the top of this section with links.

 

 

 

Edited 24 August, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

9 hours ago, Roottootemoot said:

There is a reason many will not drain for that long, 

& rather have an engine / oil at Operating Temperature and use a Pump to remove the oil, then remove the Sump Plug and let any residual drain and fit a new sump plug.

H&S, and number they do, and the training they get as a Technician / Fitter.

 

Draining for 30 minutes is the thing that killed plenty of TSI engines with the Chain Tensioner issues.

 

Seen this written a few times, explanation please ?

 

@UrbanPanzer

I can give no more of an explanation than Luciffer gave.

If this is not possible in practice and is just in theory then ignore. Do as you please and as you do.

Wow that's scary , and something that would never have occurred to me, thanks for the explanation, learn something new here all the time. Even more scary that main dealerships aren't aware.  Planning on changing oil on our 1.4 TDI Greenline this week, will try and find out if the chain for the balance shaft is hydraulically tensioned also.

9 hours ago, Roottootemoot said:

@UrbanPanzer

I can give no more of an explanation than Luciffer gave.

If this is not possible in practice and is just in theory then ignore. Do as you please and as you do.

 

Ok thanks for that, missed it further up, my bad.

 

I can "sort" of understand the theory, however if you have been driving for say 30 mins, your oil is hot no doubt, you then switch off and say go in a shop for 20mins, by this time the oil "if" it drains from the tensioner that easily would have already drained back into the sump. so you would be in the same position upon restart, unless there is a fundamental flaw in the design of the oil way which pressurises the tensioner.

@UrbanPanzer

Funnily the engines that have had the timing chain tensioner issues since the Euro 4 1.4 TSI's including twin chargers and other than the Euro 5 1.8 & 2.0 TSI's are the early 1.2 TSI before the Upgrade and then some CTHE Twinchargers have had timing chain issues rather than CAVE engines.

 

@xman

Posts about the 1.2 TSI's  & the engine going backwards while the oil being changed, he might see this and comment.

 

http://adamlewin.co.uk/vw-mk5-golf-tsi-engine-timing-chain-problem

 

Edited 25 August, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

On 21/08/2019 at 10:13, Hattori_Hanzo said:

Any way I put a small mark on the nut and when I got home and checked the nut the mark was in exactly the same place.

Am I right in saying the the cap sits against a rubber o-ring so if it had been removed the mark should be in a different place? 

Or does the cap sit against a shoulder, so in fact the mark would be in the same place?

On the HTP, the oil filter cap screws up to a hard stop when the cap shoulder reaches the filter housing. The mark will always be in the same place.