Octavia VRS, failed repairs under warranty and now likely head gasket (out of warranty)

[Bertieboy74]

Hi all,

Just after some good advice from you all again please!

I've previously posted about sudden coolant loss, a well documented problem I think.

I have a 64 petrol vrs...

In January 2019, it emptied all its coolant, with no visible leak, but very rapidly. Skoda found a crack in the radiator which they replaced under warranty. 

8 months later, the same thing happened exactly, and this time they said it was the water pump,  which they replaced under warranty also. To be fair, they seemed very thorough, and did all pressure tests etc, as well as the work.

However, I'm now 16 months from the first time, and the coolant warning went on yesterday. I stopped and discovered nothing in the reservoir, even though it had been on max a week earlier.

Today, I refilled it and drove carefully, and got 3 miles before it had emptied, with steam to boot!

I fear the head gasket has gone, and its stuck on the drive.

My question...(.it is out if warranty now.)

What should I reasonably expect from Skoda?

I feel that it should be fixed (if fixable) for free, as it is the same fault I reported 16 months ago. I'm sure that the mileage I've done since, will have caused damage to the engine, though its seemed fine.

I actually want rid, and it may even be a right off, in which case, what does everyone think would be a reasonable outcome, and is there any consumer law that covers this?

Thanks all

Chris

Edited 14 June, 2020 by Bertieboy74

[MoggyTech]

Might be the same fault symptom (coolant loss) but if it is the head gasket, different cause,, so not covered by recently replaced parts warranty.  

The car is now 6 years old, so I doubt Skoda UK would even consider a good will gesture at this point. There are only three head gasket thicknesses available, so if any skimming is required any warping will have to be minimal.

so minimal cost will be light machining of the head, new gasket, and a set of new stretch bolts (old bolts must NOT be reused.) Plus of course labour costs.

These heads sometimes develop cracks between the valve inserts, so that would be a new cylinder head.

[TDIum]

Engine damage comes with major overheating episodes. If you have avoided any of those it should be OK. Still it may use more oil in future.

Is it high mileage? 

[nidza]

First of all, it is unlikely that you have now third different issue which is causing the same symptom. Simply cannot be.

 

I suspect that the root cause was not found in the first place. 

[Bertieboy74]

7 hours ago, MoggyTech said:

Might be the same fault symptom (coolant loss) but if it is the head gasket, different cause,, so not covered by recently replaced parts warranty.  

The car is now 6 years old, so I doubt Skoda UK would even consider a good will gesture at this point. There are only three head gasket thicknesses available, so if any skimming is required any warping will have to be minimal.

so minimal cost will be light machining of the head, new gasket, and a set of new stretch bolts (old bolts must NOT be reused.) Plus of course labour costs.

These heads sometimes develop cracks between the valve inserts, so that would be a new cylinder head.

Cheers, I think I'd have a case to argue that the fault is the same fault that was present a year and a half ago, given the same thing has happened three times. 

Maybe hopeful thinking...thanks anyway.

 

[Bertieboy74]

2 hours ago, TDIum said:

Engine damage comes with major overheating episodes. If you have avoided any of those it should be OK. Still it may use more oil in future.

Is it high mileage? 

Thanks, the only time it has ever overheated was last time on the day the coolant emptied. It had been fine before this, until this new episode. The weird thing is that its driven well all this time.

. It hasn't overheated this time either, as I've not driven it since it dumped its load.

Oh, and 68k miles, so slightly above average but not high.

Edited 15 June, 2020 by Bertieboy74

[Bertieboy74]

43 minutes ago, nidza said:

First of all, it is unlikely that you have now third different issue which is causing the same symptom. Simply cannot be.

 

I suspect that the root cause was not found in the first place. 

Yes, exactly that. I hope I don't have a battle with them, but they are usually good to be fair, so I'll cross my fingers!

[Bertieboy74]

Well, my car is booked in with main dealer on Thursday.

The service manager made it quite clear that they would not be fixing the issue without payment, and suggested that the 3 x coolant tank emptying many months apart were three seperate unrelated events that were fixed on each occasion!

Plan so far is for me to pay for a low loader, and they will diagnose the fault for free.

If it is a pricey fix, I presume that the correct course of redress is to complain to main dealer principle of the site, then Skoda UK.

Anyone got any other ideas?

Thanks 

Chris

[TDIum]

The parts they fitted and the work done for the previous repairs will have a warranty but this will be time-limited so you'd have to check. 

Was it the same fault all along? Doubtful because they replaced one cracked radiator. The water pump is a known weak point but they replaced that. Was the radiator really cracked and did the water pump really fail, or were they just guessing and throwing parts at a problem they couldn't diagnose? You'll never know but then again it's no bother to you because it was all done under warranty. 

A system pressure test should be carried out to correctly diagnose the leak. 

Sorry, but sometimes things go wrong and you have to pay to get them fixed. 

[Bertieboy74]

39 minutes ago, TDIum said:

The parts they fitted and the work done for the previous repairs will have a warranty but this will be time-limited so you'd have to check. 

Was it the same fault all along? Doubtful because they replaced one cracked radiator. The water pump is a known weak point but they replaced that. Was the radiator really cracked and did the water pump really fail, or were they just guessing and throwing parts at a problem they couldn't diagnose? You'll never know but then again it's no bother to you because it was all done under warranty. 

A system pressure test should be carried out to correctly diagnose the leak. 

Sorry, but sometimes things go wrong and you have to pay to get them fixed. 

Cheers,

I don't object to paying for a fault out of warranty.  I just refuse to believe that exactly the same symptom can happen (catastrophic coolant loss) three times, and be three coincidental occurrences. Yes, skoda replaced a radiator and water pump, but it does seem more than odd.

My hope is that the water pump, only fitted in September, has failed, and would be under warranty still.

Thanks anyway 🙂

[Guest]

On 15/06/2020 at 15:58, Bertieboy74 said:

Cheers, I think I'd have a case to argue that the fault is the same fault that was present a year and a half ago, given the same thing has happened three times. 

Maybe hopeful thinking...thanks anyway.

 

 

For your sake I hope I'm wrong but this isn't looking good.

 

As I understand from aboveyou had a coolant problem, they found a leak in the radiator and it was fixed. Sometime later ( you don't say how long ) you had another coolant loss, this time it was the water pump. They replace the water pump and the car then goes for 18 months before another problem appears. If it wasn't the water pump as you're implying, then you need to explain why the car went 18 months without any loss of coolant?

 

If you look at this with your legal hat on then the onus is on you to prove the fault was present. If the fix lasted 18 months, then I cannot see any arguement it was an inherent fault and the garage were inept.

 

It seems very good that the garage are willing to look at the problem but if it were my money, I'd be paying for a low loader to take it to a reputable indi who's labour rates should be cheaper.

 

If the garage say the fix is going to cost £££££'s does that mean you'll have to pay for another low-loader to take it away?

 

Edit:  Just thinking - if it's the water pump that's gone and the pump had a 2yr warranty, then that's a whole different ball game.

 

Edited 17 June, 2020 by Guest

[Bertieboy74]

1 hour ago, Scot5 said:

 

For your sake I hope I'm wrong but this isn't looking good.

 

As I understand from aboveyou had a coolant problem, they found a leak in the radiator and it was fixed. Sometime later ( you don't say how long ) you had another coolant loss, this time it was the water pump. They replace the water pump and the car then goes for 18 months before another problem appears. If it wasn't the water pump as you're implying, then you need to explain why the car went 18 months without any loss of coolant?

 

If you look at this with your legal hat on then the onus is on you to prove the fault was present. If the fix lasted 18 months, then I cannot see any arguement it was an inherent fault and the garage were inept.

 

It seems very good that the garage are willing to look at the problem but if it were my money, I'd be paying for a low loader to take it to a reputable indi who's labour rates should be cheaper.

 

If the garage say the fix is going to cost £££££'s does that mean you'll have to pay for another low-loader to take it away?

 

Edit:  Just thinking - if it's the water pump that's gone and the pump had a 2yr warranty, then that's a whole different ball game.

 

Hi, thanks for your reply.

The radiator crak was discovered after white water vapour was pouring out the exhaust, and the coolant reservoir suddenly emptied. This was January 2019, and the fix was a radiator replacement.

In August 2019, the coolant tank emptied again suddenly (ie over a few days), and this time the fix was a water pump.

Now, the coolant tank emptied over a period I know to be shorter than a week, then when refilled, it emptied over 3 miles, at which point I haven't driven it.

I take your point about there being 7 months between dumps last year, then 9 months till this time, but I still can't see how the faults aren't likely to be connected via an undiagnosed fault.

I'm really hoping the replacement water pump has gone, and is under warranty!!

Thanks

 

[Guest]

On 14/06/2020 at 17:00, Bertieboy74 said:

I feel that it should be fixed (if fixable) for free, as it is the same fault I reported 16 months ago.

 

1 hour ago, Bertieboy74 said:

I take your point about there being 7 months between dumps last year, then 9 months till this time, but I still can't see how the faults aren't likely to be connected via an undiagnosed fault.

I'm really hoping the replacement water pump has gone, and is under warranty!!

Thanks

 

Don't you mean same symptoms? It can't be the same fault otherwise replacing both the radiator and then the waterpump would have had no effect. 

 

Fingers crossed it's the water pump.

[Bertieboy74]

18 hours ago, Scot5 said:

 

 

Don't you mean same symptoms? It can't be the same fault otherwise replacing both the radiator and then the waterpump would have had no effect. 

 

Fingers crossed it's the water pump.

Yes, you are quite correct! My heads up my arsenal clearly!!

Find out today...repeat mantra "water pump...water pump" 😄

[Bertieboy74]

18 hours ago, Scot5 said:

 

 

Don't you mean same symptoms? It can't be the same fault otherwise replacing both the radiator and then the waterpump would have had no effect. 

 

Fingers crossed it's the water pump.

 

Oh, and while you've been helpful....you don't know of a good source of paint do you?

I have the rallye green vrs, and there is a scratch on the rear plastic bumper that I need to cover!

[Guest]

Paint? Sorry. To be honest if its a scratch on plastic I just leave it as I find touch-up paint makes the repair on any metallic paint more prominent. If it's bad enough then I'd have my local body shop paint the whole panel. If you pay cash rather thn go thru insurance then it always amazes me how much their price drops.

Edited 18 June, 2020 by Guest

[Bertieboy74]

55 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

Paint? Sorry. To be honest if its a scratch on plastic I just leave it as I find touch-up paint makes the repair on any metallic paint more prominent. If it's bad enough then I'd have my local body shop paint the whole panel. If you pay cash rather thn go thru insurance then it always amazes me how much their price drops.

 

Cool, seems like good advice.

Thanks again

Chris

[skodavia]

On 17/06/2020 at 10:03, Bertieboy74 said:

Cheers,

I don't object to paying for a fault out of warranty.  I just refuse to believe that exactly the same symptom can happen (catastrophic coolant loss) three times, and be three coincidental occurrences. Yes, skoda replaced a radiator and water pump, but it does seem more than odd.

My hope is that the water pump, only fitted in September, has failed, and would be under warranty still.

Thanks anyway 🙂

I hope you get a resolve on the coolant loss but the water pump you had fitted under manufacturers warranty will only have warranty for the remainder of the cars original warranty and not a year or two years from the date it was fitted. This is because you have not purchased the pump (skoda paid the invoice) so you have no claim to a warranty. If you had paid for the pump and have an invoice to prove than yes you would be able to claim a warranty on it. Hope this helps

[Bertieboy74]

1 hour ago, skodavia said:

I hope you get a resolve on the coolant loss but the water pump you had fitted under manufacturers warranty will only have warranty for the remainder of the cars original warranty and not a year or two years from the date it was fitted. This is because you have not purchased the pump (skoda paid the invoice) so you have no claim to a warranty. If you had paid for the pump and have an invoice to prove than yes you would be able to claim a warranty on it. Hope this helps

Crikey....

That's an odd one...so  if I went in on a Tuesday and they fitted a water pump on my out of warranty car, and then it failed the next week, then the part would not be under warranty and I'd have to pay again?

 

Edit....sorry, I just reread your post and understand!

Edited 18 June, 2020 by Bertieboy74

[skodavia]

Otherwise you potentially would have a perpetual warranty which would be nice! Its something that a lot of people don't realize, when they have a part replaced towards the end of the cars' manufacturers warranty, the warranty on that say two month old part also ends with the cars warranty.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, skodavia said:

I hope you get a resolve on the coolant loss but the water pump you had fitted under manufacturers warranty will only have warranty for the remainder of the cars original warranty and not a year or two years from the date it was fitted. This is because you have not purchased the pump (skoda paid the invoice) so you have no claim to a warranty. If you had paid for the pump and have an invoice to prove than yes you would be able to claim a warranty on it. Hope this helps

 

Never gave that a thought and I have to agree. 

 

If it's any consolation to the OP if it is the water pump again then I'd have thought they may offer goodwill.  If they didn't then you'd be perfectly entitled to ask the question is it reasonable to expect having to replace the water pump every year? There is such a thing called fit for purpose and if the pump was only replaced recently then there are grounds to suggest the part they fitted was inherently faulty.  I'd defo wait to see what the garage say first before going down that route.   

Edited 18 June, 2020 by Guest

[skodavia]

yes i agree with that, the warranty may not stand but you have 'proof' it has had a recent pump and as Scot5 said it should be fit for purpose so they may offer you the part free and you just pay labour but i would haggle for them to do it all for free!!!

[Bertieboy74]

22 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

 

Never gave that a thought and I have to agree. 

 

If it's any consolation to the OP if it is the water pump again then I'd have thought they may offer goodwill.  If they didn't then you'd be perfectly entitled to ask the question is it reasonable to expect having to replace the water pump every year? There is such a thing called fit for purpose and if the pump was only replaced recently then there are grounds to suggest the part they fitted was inherently faulty.  I'd defo wait to see what the garage say first before going down that route.   

HOORAY!!

It is a cheap plastic pipe that sits between the expansion  tank and cylinder head.

A few quid for that, but with refill if coolant, pressure tests, labour etc, £175. Thank heavens for that.

And part is unrelated to water pump fitting apparently. 

THANKS ALL!

Edited 18 June, 2020 by Bertieboy74

[MoggyTech]

Thanks for the update. Plus a happy ending. 😀

[skodavia]

good result