34 minutes ago, skomaz said:

Wow!!! - those statements are very naive as a minimum and show that you appear to be quite 'out of touch' in relation to how many people in this country live on a daily basis and are hand-to-mouth in terms of finances. Mind you, and please don't take this as a personal insult, it is typical of the attitudes of many people who are generally well off and also of people who constantly 'promote' or 'evangelise' about 'EVs' and 'Environmental / Green' initiatives.

Indeed, that is so typical of a person who is so fully prepared to listen to and accept the narrative of others who believe that they experts in certain fields, even with politicians pushing agenda's when they are clearly not experts but are yielding to some who think they are when in fact they are not, but merely following a line of self-interest.

I have just watched a video on YouTube channel called WW2 Secrets and it in my view demonstrates just how dangerous such blind faith in so called experts can be and how with the construction of the hurried construction of the Liberty ships actually cost the lives of loads of seamen and loads of wartime supplies of all types being lost to the see, extending the length of the war.

One person, a lowly female welder was trying express her findings and theories about how these ships were breaking about in service with the total loss of ships, cargo and sailors, her name was Bessie Hamill and her observations were dismissed out of hand, when in fact she held the key to the solution and what she exposed is still being used today, it is some 40 minutes long but well worth a watch. I think it shows perfectly the folly the of pushing forwards with totally untested and still emerging fledgling technology.

Here are the notes that go with the video, that are not visible when watching a video embedded into this forum, and to see them requires watchng the video on YouTube and be bothered to read the notes about the video.

This is one of the reasons why I always like to look and examine things when someone tells me X is the truth, when it might not the absolute truth. I say, that time will tell eventually tell us if it was truth or folly and we should never shoot the messenger, because they are not willing to follow the orchestrated narrative, like the rats and the children who blindly followed the Pied Piper of Hamlin on June 26, 1284.

How One Welder's "Ridiculous" Trick Made Victory Ships Assemble in 5 Days Instead Of 40

WW2 Secrets

13.2K subscribers

Oct 14, 2025 #ww2 #worldwar2 #ww2history

How did WWII cargo ships go from catastrophic failures—splitting in half at dock—to being built in just 5 days? This is the untold story of Bessie Hamill, a night-shift welder whose "ridiculous" observation about welding sequences solved the Liberty ship crisis and revolutionized modern engineering forever.

In 1943, Liberty ships were breaking apart spontaneously in calm water. Over 1,500 vessels reported serious cracks, 19 broke completely in half, and 3 vanished at sea. The U.S. was losing the logistics war despite building ships faster than ever. Then a welder noticed something the engineers had missed.

Discover how one woman's persistence led to the Victory ship program, how Kaiser's Richmond Shipyards achieved the impossible 5-day construction timeline, and why every welded structure today—from skyscrapers to pipelines—owes its existence to lessons learned on WWII shipyards.

This documentary reveals the science of brittle fracture, the physics of residual stress, the human cost of engineering failures, and the legacy of a welder who changed manufacturing forever but died in obscurity.

#ww2 #worldwar2 #ww2history #worldwar2history

SOURCES Frederic C. Lane - "Ships for Victory: A History of Shipbuilding under the U.S. Maritime Commission in World War II" (Johns Hopkins Press, 1951) - Comprehensive official history of the Maritime Commission's wartime shipbuilding program

L.H. Van Vlack - "Materials Science for Engineers" - Details on steel metallurgy, brittle fracture mechanics, and transition temperature effects National Park Service Maritime Heritage Program - "Richmond Shipyard No. 3: Rosie the Riveter/WWII Home Front National Historical Park" - Primary documentation of shipyard operations and worker contributions

American Welding Society Historical Archives - Development of structural welding codes D1.0 and D1.1 (1947-present), welding sequence standards

John Gamon Soucy - "The SS Schenectady: Broken Ship, Broken Welds" (Naval Engineers Journal, 1990) - Detailed metallurgical analysis of the Schenectady failure

Constance B. Schulz - "Building the 'Bridge to Victory': The Willow Run Bomber Plant and the Ford Motor Company in World War II" - Assembly line manufacturing methods applied to war production

T.L. Anderson - "Fracture Mechanics: Fundamentals and Applications" - Technical explanation of stress concentration, crack propagation, and brittle fracture

U.S. Maritime Commission Historical Reports - Statistical data on ship construction times, failure rates, and production numbers (1941-1945)

Oral History Collections, Bancroft Library, UC Berkeley - "Rosie the Riveter World War II Oral History Project" - First-person accounts from Richmond Shipyard workers

Mark H. Wyman - "DPs: Europe's Displaced Persons, 1945-1951" - Context on wartime logistics and shipping needs Parker, M.E. - "Victory Ship Manual" (1944, Maritime Commission) - Original technical specifications and construction procedures for Victory ships

And now, lets try and get back to the true topic of this thread, the truth about electric cars, by posting something that is more directly related.

Here is something that few saw coming.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Of course there's always a spread.

But let's lay the facts out, what percentage of people are "hand-to-mouth" in terms of finances? Within those percentage, how many actually owns vehicle?

People speak as though they are speaking for the poorest, yet drive around in their personal transport on the roads designed to be car centric and punish those who are not able to own cars.

People view 'Environmental / Green' initiatives as too expensive. But it's not much different likes of Costco, where the well off are economically "rewarded" for buying in bulk. Are you pretending you've never taken advantage of 3 for 2 deals to stock up on stuff? The economy of scale in capitalism has always been built this way from day one.

Far more than the authorities are willing to admit and make public, because it suits them to be economical with the truth.

4 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

And now, lets try and get back to the true topic of this thread, the truth about electric cars, by posting something that is more directly related.

Here is something that few saw coming.

And then their share price dropped 14%

Forbes

Ferrari Shares Tumble Toward Historic Losses As Guidance...

The luxury automaker also scaled back expectations for its new electric vehicle business.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Free electricity that anyone can participate (as long as have freely fitted smart meter)

https://www.uswitch.com/mobile-app/power-hours/25-hours-free-electricity/?lid=aezqoejwk55u

I'm with OVO and I have a smart meter, and I can honestly say that I have never been approached by them with the offer of free electricity, even though I have the required meter. Think about it, why would they be willing to forego the extra profit that they can and are making from their customers who have better things to with their time then sit around exploring ways of extra freebies and why they try and put obstacles in peoples way, like you need to switch to this scheme or that scheme and commit to doing this or that and they keep moving the goalposts with standing charges, why? The standing charge should be constant right across the spectrum, it costs no more regardless of what scheme you sign up to.

If they are being paid to use that green energy, then they could quite literally just give that away free to everyone using power between certain times, they, have the means of seeing who is using power between the periods applicable as smart meters report demand on a frequent basis.

Instead, they chose not to do anything other than to attempt making excessive profits from their customers by keeping that fact to themselves for the benefit of themselves and their shareholders.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

Indeed, that is so typical of a person who is so fully prepared to listen to and accept the narrative of others who believe that they experts in certain fields, even with politicians pushing agenda's when they are clearly not experts but are yielding to some who think they are when in fact they are not, but merely following a line of self-interest.

Funny how that perfectly describes many youtuber who have found EV related shock tactics gets them more views. There's always people to lap up talking heads that confirms their view points.

46 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I'm with OVO and I have a smart meter, and I can honestly say that I have never been approached by them with the offer of free electricity, even though I have the required meter. Think about it, why would they be willing to forego the extra profit that they can and are making from their customers who have better things to with their time then sit around exploring ways of extra freebies and why they try and put obstacles in peoples way, like you need to switch to this scheme or that scheme and commit to doing this or that and they keep moving the goalposts with standing charges, why? The standing charge should be constant right across the spectrum, it costs no more regardless of what scheme you sign up to.

If they are being paid to use that green energy, then they could quite literally just give that away free to everyone using power between certain times, they, have the means of seeing who is using power between the periods applicable as smart meters report demand on a frequent basis.

Instead, they chose not to do anything other than to attempt making excessive profits from their customers by keeping that fact to themselves for the benefit of themselves and their shareholders.

Read the Uswitch page, it has nothing to do with energy supplier, it appears to be Uswitch's initiative getting people to sign up to their app and link their smart meter data.

I don't believe OVO are doing any free sessions. It's not a company known for innovations.

Smart meter does not automatically mean they get all the data. User has to opt-in to half-hourly reporting, user has to be already providing those kind of half-hourly to be able to take advantage of any free electricity. Electricity supply and demand changes quickly and drastically.

On top of that, OfGem and suppliers cannot lower price cap or give too much discount because the average electricity price consumed by people who can't time-shift their demand tend to be more expensive by consuming during worst of peak times. Only when more people consume lower priced electricity the average price can come down.

The Octopus scheme (both free session and saving session) are trying to change behaviour, get people to shift their usage, so that we can all have lower overall average pricing.

https://octopus.energy/free-electricity/

37 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Only when more people consume lower priced electricity the average price can come down

If the electricity generation and delivery system was Nationalised. The Government could scrap the varying Tariffs and use the increasing use of electricity overnight for vehicles to fund the purchase of the Batteries to "Balance" the supply and bring the total price of electricity use down for everyone.

This would stop the price of electricity being set by the price of Gas

44 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

The Octopus scheme (both free session and saving session) are trying to change behaviour, get people to shift their usage, so that we can all have lower overall average pricing.

The Octopus scheme is designed to increase market share by attracting new customers. The Company made no profit until it's eighth year because until then it did not have enough subscribers. It can only increase turnover and maintain profit by adding more. Once it reaches saturation point i think it will have no option but to increase prices and reduce offers to keep the shareholders happy?

Edited 15 October, 202515 Oct by Stonekeeper

I do however have to admit, that out of the current suppliers, Octopus does seem to be about the best according to users here, also from the Which magazine, who year on year rate them very highly.

9 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I do however have to admit, that out of the current suppliers, Octopus does seem to be about the best according to users here, also from the Which magazine, who year on year rate them very highly.

I agree it probably is for those who have the means to meet it's requirements.

But using high demand electrical appliances whilst asleep goes against Fire Departments safety advice

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Funny how that perfectly describes many youtuber who have found EV related shock tactics gets them more views. There's always people to lap up talking heads that confirms their view points.

Or of course, as I have said before, they are exercising their freedom of speech to tell us all the truth, only time will tell us if that is correct or not, as I said before, I've similar with regard to the promotion of diesel and look at how that turned out in the fullness of time?

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Read the Uswitch page, it has nothing to do with energy supplier, it appears to be Uswitch's initiative getting people to sign up to their app and link their smart meter data.

Try looking a bit harder it is not Uswitch pushing it, many suppliers are also doing the same, maybe trying to gain market share, who actually knows?

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

I don't believe OVO are doing any free sessions. It's not a company known for innovations.

Smart meter does not automatically mean they get all the data. User has to opt-in to half-hourly reporting, user has to be already providing those kind of half-hourly to be able to take advantage of any free electricity. Electricity supply and demand changes quickly and drastically.

On top of that, OfGem and suppliers cannot lower price cap or give too much discount because the average electricity price consumed by people who can't time-shift their demand tend to be more expensive by consuming during worst of peak times. Only when more people consume lower priced electricity the average price can come down.

The Octopus scheme (both free session and saving session) are trying to change behaviour, get people to shift their usage, so that we can all have lower overall average pricing.

https://octopus.energy/free-electricity/

I have had my smart meter many years now and right from the off set, I had it set to send its readings every 30 minutes, the whole idea of that was thet they could provide me with savings at off peak times, which never happened. Then they did away with the inhouse digital meter with its display and removed it with a online app years ago, which was always days behind in its calculations and reporting of usage. Worse then useless it was and of course it (and I've mentioned this before on many platforms) it assumes that everyone has the internet, and I know that for a fact that many do not, some are just interested by technology and fear it, others just can't be bothered, or have learning issues etc and I also know that there are various religions out there who are against it as they cannot control what the internet brings into their world.

I used to do quite a bit of design work for Gospelist consultant, and I'd have to do all the drawings, design and quotes for various Gospal halls, print them and drive miles to stand in front of him to present the plans etc, and this could be done many times before agreement was reached.

So the internet is universally used or or liked and even today there are people who don't have it, or want it, the same as mobile phones and it is a serious issue for many.

37 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

If the electricity generation and delivery system was Nationalised. The Government could scrap the varying Tariffs and use the increasing use of electricity overnight for vehicles to fund the purchase of the Batteries to "Balance" the supply and bring the total price of electricity use down for everyone.

This would stop the price of electricity being set by the price of Gas

That's a great idea. First would be building out enough renewable and transmission so that there is excess more times than not. Current GB Energy seems to be aiming to do.

Then bank those money for grid scale battery to capture the excess, enabling cheaper energy.

But as always, there will be people crying foul when early adopters are capturing those early benefits.

35 minutes ago, Stonekeeper said:

The Octopus scheme is designed to increase market share by attracting new customers. The Company made no profit until it's eighth year because until then it did not have enough subscribers. It can only increase turnover and maintain profit by adding more. Once it reaches saturation point i think it will have no option but to increase prices and reduce offers to keep the shareholders happy?

TBH I'm not so sure. They are already on the big 6 supplier after absorbing Bulb's customers. In fact this article say in 2025 they are now the biggest supplier:

Who are the Big 6 Energy Providers? | Switcheroo

What they have been shown to do is consistently innovate. So I believe their free/saving sessions are aiming to change customer behaviour in anticipation for more renewables.

2 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Try looking a bit harder it is not Uswitch pushing it, many suppliers are also doing the same, maybe trying to gain market share, who actually knows?

The link I provided is from Uswitch and Uswitch alone.

Have you seen other energy supplier (than Octopus) doing similar?

4 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I have had my smart meter many years now and right from the off set, I had it set to send its readings every 30 minutes, the whole idea of that was thet they could provide me with savings at off peak times, which never happened. Then they did away with the inhouse digital meter with its display and removed it with a online app years ago, which was always days behind in its calculations and reporting of usage.

The promise for smart meter were 2 fold: monitor usage and saving off-peak.

Both are realised for me, after installation of smart meter, I purchased this IHD and was able to monitor my usage in smart home "Home Assistant". Don't need to say more on off-peak saving.

Hildebrand Technology - Innovative Solutions

To realise their promise, you do need to sign up to various tariffs. It doesn't automatically happen by itself. Can you imagine the outcry from people if their smart meter changes supplier without their consent?

In-house display for live usage data monitoring had always been provided, even now. The instantaneous consumption data has always been 100% correct.

@wyx087 yes I have seen others promoting the same, just look up a few other suppliers and see for yourself.

When I said that the IHD was no more, I actually meant it, OVO would replace mine when it died on me, instead told to use the APP which is crap, like I said, it always ran almost a week behind so making it hard to use.

17 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Nope, not in the slightest, think about it, loads of pensioners have lost their £200 winter fuel payment, energy companies have had massive windfall profits and yet those that could clearly well afford to pay are enjoying massive savings, something not right there.

Winter Fuel Payment are available for those of income, pension etc of less than £35k i heard.

Marxism is defined as this below. Perhaps it encourages an irresponsible and lazy society?

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a slogan popularized by Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha Programme to describe the ideal communist society. It suggests a system where people contribute to society based on their capabilities and receive what they require for their own well-being, based on free access to and distribution of goods and services. In this vision, production and distribution would be managed by the workers themselves, with no class divisions or private property. 

10 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Winter Fuel Payment are available for those of income, pension etc of less than £35k i heard.

I'm at £20k and I had mine removed.

12 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I'm at £20k and I had mine removed.

Should get it back for this Winter 25/26 as that was what was being reported.

Think it will still be flawed as under the £35k or less of income i will get the Winter fuel allowance next year 26/27 even though I had got my retirement tax free lump sum of more than twice the £35k so I think there should be some other measure ie pension pot holding or the like. Tax planers could drawdown, get pensions etc of say £34.9k maybe to still get the £200, hopefully not as it's not a kings randsom and not worth doing that but a few may.

UK tax system seems set to penalise anyone who had saved with tax being charged on interest on saving from as little £1k if standard tax payer or £500 if Higher rate tax payer.

Thinking of a chuck of my Lump sum going on a Megane e, especially if it can get the 20% off Blue Light discount rather than just get hammered for tax on interest. Helps with the transition to Zero carbon too I suppose, will miss the Zoe.

3 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Marxism is defined as this below. Perhaps it encourages an irresponsible and lazy society?

Getting way off the EV topic now but

Marxism is definitely a massive step too far.

What we should have is a level playing field in Taxation which everyone has the ability to meet their strengths and contribute to the running of the society that supports them when needed.

Our current system controlled by the 1% and applied by Government is skewed towards them.

They convince well paid people that tax is too high and get them to vote against higher taxes and challenge every change for their benefit. They even go so far as allowing people to use the taxation system to pay less with some earnings which they have the ability to do for the majority of what "they" earn for a living.

Taxation should be based on what people "Earn for a living" EFAL

They do this by applying the top rate at what is really not massive money. Then saying if you take some of your salary as dividends you pay a quarter on that.

The threshold for 40% should be now way above £50,000, probably up to £80,000.With another threshold at £150,000 increasing to 50%

NI should have no upper earnings limit

Dividends paid to owners and employees should be taxed at the persons relevant rate.

Dividends paid to independent investors should start at 10% but go up at thresholds. similar to EFAL

Money paid into a Pension pot should be exempt until drawn down again at EFAL rates

People solely living off investments "For a living" should be subject to EFAL rates

No IHT between Parents and children.

No salary sacrifice for employee car purchase, if a car is needed for the job it should be a Company car, if they want one to commute to work buy their own or get the bus.

Sensible people would aspire to pay the higher rates only a sociopath would say "I don't want that rise because i'll pay more tax"

45 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

I'm at £20k and I had mine removed.

If you receive a state pension and are below £35k you should get another letter by end November

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment

@Stonekeeper If everyone paid their proper share of taxation, instead just those that cannot afford to pay accountants to find loop holes etc, then things like the NHS, care for the elderly air ambulances etc would be able to be properly financed for the benefit of everyone and we would have far fewer charities as well as a result and then the country would be a far better place for it and everybody would be far happier I believe. And another bonus would be that our roads would be well sorted, no potholes or look like a patchwork quilt and far fewer accidents I think too.

I’d vote for it Graham, but can you imagine the meltdown if Reeves announced in the next budget a complete shake up where EVERYONE paid their fair share ?

29 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

@Stonekeeper If everyone paid their proper share of taxation, instead just those that cannot afford to pay accountants to find loop holes etc, then things like the NHS, care for the elderly air ambulances etc would be able to be properly financed for the benefit of everyone and we would have far fewer charities as well as a result and then the country would be a far better place for it and everybody would be far happier I believe. And another bonus would be that our roads would be well sorted, no potholes or look like a patchwork quilt and far fewer accidents I think too.

I don't blame people for using the system, I just don't like them falling for it and being used in this way.

In 1979 we had a tax rate of 60% and had even higher leading up to that. The rate was reduced and subsequent governments have maintained it by selling off all that the higher taxes had accrued. Gold, Industries etc all sold down the river to reduce taxation.

For the benefit of who really?

7 minutes ago, classic said:

I’d vote for it Graham, but can you imagine the meltdown if Reeves announced in the next budget a complete shake up where EVERYONE paid their fair share ?

I don't know what is a fair share and those in lower half of income mostly do not.

Real policies gave to use the tax system to get in as possible but that is clearly giving Salary Sacrifice on Pension Contributions which is probably the large buyer of UK Gilts which is used to keep the UK funded and keep paying the interest on the £3T debt that this current government inherited from the last run of fast and loose Con governments.

Also the last government raised the annual amount that one can put in to the tax avoiding, at time of receipt to pay possibly another rate when finally taken, to keep the GPs working and not going part time.

Back to EVs and just put 9 kwh in my rental Peugeot 308 e, will get ne back to airport with no refill charge despite being given it with 100% charge as it will be more than 70% SOC on return.

Done about 250 kms in it, charge at public charger just outside my hotel, 5€, not bad for 150 miles so about 3p per mile, happy with that. Will probably do EVs for all European holidays now on. Not so sure about Canada though.

6 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Also the last government raised the annual amount that one can put in to the tax avoiding, at time of receipt to pay possibly another rate when finally taken, to keep the GPs working and not going part time.

My EFAL scheme would have no limit on money put in a Pension scheme above the money declared under EFAL, because the money would pay tax under the EFAL rules in the future.

People would pay taxes in line with the money used "living"

These cable thefts are not helping the EV movement at all. This video shows cables being stolen from chargers near my city of Chelmsford, and the operators claim that each time it costs them around £30,000 each charger, one such operator has had a third of his chargers targeted, about 100 have been affected so far. It also seems that loads of home chargers have also been targeted.

Solution?

"smart water anti-theft measures"

Source:

Rapid charger anti-theft cables | Speak EV - Electric Car Forums