Light Goods and HGV,s will be fuelling up with DERV for many a year. as will many millions of diesel cars, and petrol cars will be getting fuelled up for a decade or 2. As to BEV,s, plenty people that can offroad park and charge off the road are still not buying or leasing BEV,s. The wish and dream of Politicians or Interested parties is just not happening at the pace they would like.

Edited Friday at 10:232 days by Evolution13

The Fine Print mentions about the self harm the UK has and is continuing to do it self with the Zero Emission mandate and is a clear example of follow the money principle.

10 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

Light Goods and HGV,s will be fuelling up with DERV for many a year. as will many millions of diesel cars, and petrol cars will be getting fuelled up for a decade or 2. As to BEV,s, plenty people that can offroad park and charge off the road are still not buying or leasing BEV,s. The wish and dream of Politicians or Interested parties is just not happening at the pace they would like.

With 30% of new car sales as EV and then plug in and'self charging' hybrids making up over half of new car sales and electric cars on average driving more than ICE the transition is not too bad on course i would say.

UK always going to have a problem due to driving on the left and getting new cars 6 months or so later. With fuel prices climbing ever higher, even Trump says oil prices not coming down until at least after the November Mid Terms.

Some even better and cheap EVs coming on to UK market in the next few weeks making the differential in running cost even wider suggesting to those who are cost contious rather than stubbornly anti EV pro ICE will see how much money they can save and spend on other things.

The very cheap PCPs on some Stellantis cars and the Dacia Spring and small Renaults plus Leapmotor, BYD Dolphin must be tempting to the cost counting drivers.

5 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The Fine Print mentions about the self harm the UK has and is continuing to do it self with the Zero Emission mandate and is a clear example of follow the money principle.

The Excise Duty on fuel has been a brilliant tax collecting measure. It is the most efficient tax in relation to what is collected and what is spent collecting.

VAT is still 20% on EVs like all cars so is significant revenue stream as is VAT on hydrocarbon fuel. In real terms the level of Excise Duty currently is much less than it was a decade or decade and a half ago. 3p a mile on EVs and 1.5p on hybrids will not fill the Excise hole by my reckoning.

The reduced Oil Refining facilities in the UK and none in Scotland is not good for Transport Fuel or petrochemicals security in the UK and the reliance on LNG from the US is a risk. The Scottish Dual Fuel Ferry Glen Sannox that has been nothing but trouble & hugely over budget has been running on diesel since July. A major issue that seemingly was not life threatening. We will see..... A valve and sensor issue and lack of shared information from a manufacturer about updates and modifications to the owners / operators/ staff maintaining and sailing the ship.

The whole point is that self charging hybrids and plug in hybrids still rely on combustion engines. Self charging only have an very short ev capacity and PHEVs, mostly are not plugged in they used as tax dodgers.

35 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

differential in running cost even wider suggesting to those who are cost contious rather than stubbornly anti EV pro ICE will see how much money they can save and spend on other things.

Running costs may be cheaper but the cost to change is still very large and takes a long time to recoup. This is what matters to most people.

I'm sure you'll mention cheap PCP deals on EVs but they done matter to many people buying through savings or second hand.

So many new and nearly new and hardly used EV bargains about though. Cars cheap as chips. Cost to Public charge is high or pretty much as fuelling an ICE costs. Home charging is no place near the cost of liquid fuel, but there is a charger to pay for. Unless like me you use a 3 pin plug cable. eg, 350 miles for £8.00 or so while Petrol or Diesel @ £8 a gallon or so might take you 35-60 miles.

Edited Friday at 11:362 days by Evolution13

3 hours ago, skomaz said:

Running costs may be cheaper but the cost to change is still very large and takes a long time to recoup. This is what matters to most people.

I'm sure you'll mention cheap PCP deals on EVs but they done matter to many people buying through savings or second hand.

Negative priced electricity certainly helps running cost and there are 5 hours of that which is long enough to charge multiple EVs, as well as do household stuff too. I have found insurance high either and service cheap too ie less than £100 a year.

Should be some very good deals, loss leaders to hit EV quota targets for some marquee who are behind target. Might be less 0% deals as cost of borrowing has gone up in the last few weeks in many countries, depending how the UK seller finances any finance deal.

New Dacia Spring looks like it has been updated significantly as the UK's cheapest car not just EV !

The problem with electricity like that is that you have to be at home in order to take advantage of it. OVO have at long last rolled out special EV tariffs, or at least it is the first time they contacted me regarding them.

6 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The problem with electricity like that is that you have to be at home in order to take advantage of it. OVO have at long last rolled out special EV tariffs, or at least it is the first time they contacted me regarding them.

As long as the EV is plugged in, and I tend to leave it plugged in much of the time, I can start or restart charging even when I am not at home, create a new charging schedule and alter the upper battery limit to stop or restart charging to take advantage of negative priced electricity.

Think my lad can do that for his Mini but I can do it for the Renaults on the Renault App.

Edited Friday at 15:391 day by lol-lol

New Dacia Spring, big revision as the Dacia Spring, 45, 65 were pretty awful and the Spring 100, whilst big improvement, was still fairly naff.

It shares much with the new Twingo I gather.... (Chukier, Heavier and Roomier ((but actually less power but torque not too bad for a 1.2 T car and makes it at low revs)).

Just come back.up the M1 and passed a Scen EV doing about 55 mph causing a right tailback as the wagons were having to pass it at 56 mph or there abouts. Obviously on cruise but oblivious to the rest of the world.

Other than that I notice that on the continent the Scenic seems to be sold as a Mitsubishi Grandis.

Just now, skomaz said:

Just come back.up the M1 and passed a Scen EV doing about 55 mph causing a right tailback as the wagons were having to pass it at 56 mph or there abouts. Obviously on cruise but oblivious to the rest of the world.

Other than that I notice that on the continent the Scenic seems to be sold as a Mitsubishi Grandis.

I don't do less than today trucks and if want or need to go slower then just get off the motorway.

Scenic does have a Misubishi cousin i gather now and the Nissan Ariya is also with the same under pinnings mainly though they have 4 wheel drive Nismo version with over 400 hp as one of the variants.

5 hours ago, lol-lol said:

As long as the EV is plugged in, and I tend to leave it plugged in much of the time, I can start or restart charging even when I am not at home, create a new charging schedule and alter the upper battery limit to stop or restart charging to take advantage of negative priced electricity.

Think my lad can do that for his Mini but I can do it for the Renaults on the Renault App.

What I meant was that the car has to be there at the time, or else no cheap electricity, not like a loyalty card from an oil company where when you have amassed so many points, you can redeem those points at the filling station of the same brand at any time of your choosing.

@lol-lol Have a look at the story of Kevin Mackie & Mackie Motors Brechin. I was friends with his dad before he took over the business. He was forced to sell it because of the actions of Renault. It is now a Parks Dealership. Good that he is getting his day in court.

11 hours ago, Evolution13 said:

@lol-lol Have a look at the story of Kevin Mackie & Mackie Motors Brechin. I was friends with his dad before he took over the business. He was forced to sell it because of the actions of Renault. It is now a Parks Dealership. Good that he is getting his day in court.

Quite similar to my very good Renault - Dacia dealer called Savilles, single site dealership, best customer service i have ever had but I know Renault would insist on all sorts of things, bigger showroom, take models that probably would not sell ie those big cars Renault are not really reunion for.

Sad and like many marque they end up with multi chain delearship that do not seem as caring. That said I gave found Startin of Worcester good but that is down to one great salesman I deal with !

Edited yesterday at 10:041 day by lol-lol

@lol-lol but that is true of any company, their reputation etc is all down to the staff, they can make or break a company. Sadly all too often, staff is not appreciated by the bosses.

Edited yesterday at 10:041 day by Graham Butcher

23 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

@lol-lol but that is true of any company, their reputation etc is all down to the staff, they can make or break a company. Sadly all too often, staff is not appreciated by the bosses.

One has to complain and even politely ask for compensation. I recently got a V2L adaptor for free after complaining on one important issue which they conceded was not good enough.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by lol-lol

With a project cost of $200 million, the largest fully electric ship and largest battery electric vehicle of any kind in the world has just arrived in Uruguay for the Colonia-Buenos Aires route.

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

With a project cost of $200 million, the largest fully electric ship and largest battery electric vehicle of any kind in the world has just arrived in Uruguay for the Colonia-Buenos Aires route.

I love the irony of it being delivered by a submersible heavy lift ship powered by a 17,000hp two stroke diesel engine.

26 minutes ago, skomaz said:

I love the irony of it being delivered by a submersible heavy lift ship powered by a 17,000hp two stroke diesel engine.

Oddly two stroke diesels are more efficient than 2 stroke with slow speed marine diesels.

Big part of the reason for piggy backing is not range etc but the ferry probably is biult for inshore waters and very flat bottomed and not suited at all for deep sea travel and it would have very poor rough weather handling capability even though displacing a few thousand tonnes.

11 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Oddly two stroke diesels are more efficient than 2 stroke with slow speed marine diesels.

Big part of the reason for piggy backing is not range etc but the ferry probably is biult for inshore waters and very flat bottomed and not suited at all for deep sea travel and it would have very poor rough weather handling capability even though displacing a few thousand tonnes.

Actually you are partly right, it is designed for more inshore waters, but range is a real big problem for it was well.

Also oddly enough, it was built in Tasmania so has had a massive piggyback ride on the diesel-powered ship. And if that was not enough, it was originally hoped to be suitable to the route shown in yellow (130miles) on the map below but it has a very good chance of being left drifting out of control if the seas are a bit rough, so instead it is going to be used for the red route (32miles) instead.

Edited 28 minutes ago28 min by Graham Butcher

What has happened at Amazon with their big electrification plan for the last-mile delivery vans? There was a time when I was actually seeing this taking place, but now it seems that they are using diesel-powered vans in that role. I keep on getting more deliveries by Amazon and all in diesel vans, and I also have seen many other diesel-powered Amazon vans around Essex.