Batteryman says:

 

You have to look after the battery (how? 🥴) you should give it a proper long, low, slow recharge, preferably off the car and in a more even controlled temperature if possible.

 

Not looking after your battery will  make the charging system work harder and the VW computer programs will make you suffer in all sorts of ways.

 

Just driving is not enough...............

 

You have been warned 😳

 

 

Driving the vehicle doesn't really recharge the battery if it is (very/too) low, if you've not recharged your battery with a battery recharger then 12.12v is (for the sake of a figure) only 50% charged so well worth recharging with a charger before getting into greater battery use with approaching cooler/colder/wetter shorter days.  The lower your battery the more work your car's charging system has to do so more wear on it and potentially less mpg.

 

Your thread prompted me to put up a thread I'd been thinking about posting.

 

Yesterday I tried to revive a car battery for our next door neighbour and initially it seemed to charge well but it didn't hold its charge so a new battery had to be ordered, he flogged it too much, had he said something a while back I may have been able to get his battery to last another year or two whilst he looks to replace the car (non-start stop).

 

   

Edited 1 September, 20223 yr by nta16
'while'

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Batteryman says:

 

You have to look after the battery (how? 🥴) you should give it a proper long, low, slow recharge, preferably off the car and in a more even controlled temperature if possible.

 

Not looking after your battery will  make the charging system work harder and the VW computer programs will make you suffer in all sorts of ways.

 

Just driving is not enough...............

 

You have been warned 😳

 

 

Surely disconnecting the battery is not a good thing to do for the time it takes to carry out a low level charge, all the control units on the car will complain that they have been lost power and the dash will awash with error lights and error messages on the dot matrix display. The current battery is the 2nd in the car's life. The first lasted almost 7 years before it gave up the ghost and went to battery heaven after the alternator belt snapped, and the battery died while trying to limp the car into a Skoda dealer one day in Cambridge and failed to make it, dying completely at the side of the A14.

 

The battery has a 4-year warranty and was purchased 19/9/19 so is still under warranty, I'll get that tested for problems when the car goes in for service next week.

Edited 29 August, 20223 yr by Graham Butcher

11 hours ago, varooom said:

Odds are when you sat in the car with engine off, you simply drained too much from the battery on the day.

 

Now it has been charged up by driving, all will be good now most likely.

 

One to monitor for sure though, and have jump leads with you just in case.

The battery spec for the car and indeed for the battery now fitted is an AGM type with a CCA rating of 760A and has a capacity of 70AH, so there is no on earth that just having the radio on for an hour could drain a battery of that size to a point where it is incapable of cranking the car.

11 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

The battery spec for the car and indeed for the battery now fitted is an AGM type with a CCA rating of 760A and has a capacity of 70AH, so there is no way on earth that just having the radio on for an hour could drain a battery of that size to a point where it is incapable of cranking the car.

Yet the car didn't have the energy to crank the engine, and your dash was flickering (classic low battery)

 

Once the car was jumped, supplied the energy it needed, it started.

 

Since the event, you have stopped and started several times, because the battery was charged enough from driving to have the energy to crank.

 

By all means if you think my logic is faulty, that's not a problem.  I shall try and help other people.

Graham think of the battery as a store or a bank account, if there's plenty in there you can draw out lots in big chunks or little chunks or any combination of the two but if nothing goes back in the store or bank account becomes depleted.  You could have a brand new battery and empty it, it's just a store.

 

Cut a long story short I was trying to help a bloke with a BMW as his vehicle alarm was going off, done the heat and battery talk suggested he recharges his battery but he tells me his battery is only 6 months old because of previous problems and it shows 14v.  I managed to persuade him to  show the battery figure with the engine not running, 11.6v.  He'd not learnt from his previous experience.

 

Have look at your Owner's Manual, I've no idea what's in/on your car to comment.  Generally switchin' compooters off 'n' on agen often helps them get their underwear out of a twist but you might have memory settings(?) you want to save(?).

 

Below is from the 'Operating Instructions' (VW's orders) for my wife's 2015 Fabia - but - I didn't even need to touch the radio or to resynch the window (but I did as I don't trust VWs computer programs overly) - I did however need to rest the time of day clock which surprised me.

 

 

 

Edited 29 August, 20223 yr by nta16
spelling

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

The battery has a 4-year warranty and was purchased 19/9/19 so is still under warranty, I'll get that tested for problems when the car goes in for service next week.

By all means get it tested but the guarantee isn't that the driver will keep the battery charged enough for it not to fail because it's been drained, there will be conditions of use expected (and expressed no doubt in T&CS)

 

Sorry Graham but you've got to have some fun, just imagine if you breakdown on the way there with battery (well driver's) failure. 😄

 

And I hope you're not going for the Chancellor's job. 😄  (As you're getting the battery maths wrong.)

 

Just having fun with you - charge the battery on the car if you want, that's fine but charge the battery rather than just relying on driving it to get the battery back, you only need 12.4v if you want.  Just read (yeah sorry read) the Owner's Manual (or wotever it's called for your model) and use an appropriate charger (not a booster charger).

 

Or just leave it until next week and see how it goes.

 

Did you used to own a BMW?  -  sorry couldn't resist, just having fun 😁

  

Edited 29 August, 20223 yr by nta16

Charging the battery is not really an option for me as I cannot get my car into my garage, garage too small for such a big car😉  and running leads out from the house to the kerbside is strictly frowned upon and should someone trip of the lead, then I become liable ☹️

 

A voltage of just 12.4V will only trickle charge a battery and is ideal to keep a car's battery fully topped up if it is not being driven on a daily basis, which my car is

. And also if a car requires having its battery being regularly topped up when the alternator has an output of a 140A smacks of a charging issue and needs to sorted ASAP.

 

Edit. Added text.

Maybe I should have pointed out that I'm a retired auto electrician and as such I understand the battery is a storage vessel, or as you put it, a bank account. With an alternator capable of outputting upto 140A, there should be a need to charge a car battery unless that car has not been used for a few weeks, but not a car that is in use daily, even for short trips of a couple of miles is enough to keep the battery well charged. This, however, was not the case a few years when most cars only had dynamos, especially if that car was spending a lot of time crawling along in heavy traffic and sitting at traffic lights. Dynamos do not produce much power, sometimes none at all when in such conditions, due to the low engine revs, they need engine revs to be a lot higher to produce reasonable power. An alternator is capable and is designed to produce loads of power at even at tick over speeds.

 

This link might help. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator_(automotive)

Edited 30 August, 20223 yr by Graham Butcher
To add some extra clarity

4 hours ago, varooom said:

Yet the car didn't have the energy to crank the engine, and your dash was flickering (classic low battery)

 

Once the car was jumped, supplied the energy it needed, it started.

 

Since the event, you have stopped and started several times, because the battery was charged enough from driving to have the energy to crank.

 

By all means if you think my logic is faulty, that's not a problem.  I shall try and help other people.

No,  I did not say your logic was faulty. Looking at the workshop manual, there is another possibility for cars with the start/stop system,  the battery monitor module which is part of the negative terminal. There is a 2 pin plug coming away from it and one lead connects to the starter solenoid, the other to the alternator.  Now,  if this is playing up,  it will have an impact on both the charging and the starting.  Modern cars are just so complicated,  that it is almost impossible to repair them yourself with access to loads of expensive equipment. 

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Now,  if this is playing up,  it will have an impact on both the charging and the starting.  Modern cars are just so complicated,  that it is almost impossible to repair them yourself with access to loads of expensive equipment. 

Battery monitoring or charging problems were also considered, also perhaps poor electrical connections, but usually best to start with the basic and simple things especially when they're quick, easy and cheap to carry out - even if you are/were an auto-electrician, in fact more so as your mind runs on to more sexy complex things and of course probably a much greater reluctance than the average man (women are generally more sensible) to RtFM.  I had to deal with electricians in a previous life so I know what they can be like, as a generalisation.  Perhaps you are different, but electrician and motor trade lowers the odds.  😉

 

I'm often slagged off here for putting the VW computer programs are over-complicated, over-intrusive and intertwined, more so with start/stop, it may have been useful for VW to help hide their diesel cheats.

 

Sorry, the 12.v I meant as a battery reading.  I know about dynamos as for about 30 years I ran "classic" cars as 'dailies' and until last week for 15 years owned a 1973 car which had it been made months before would have a dynamo, I changed the alternator to an uprated version to allow for the electric cooling fan instead of the engine driven fan.

 

As an auto-electrician you'll know about the difference on the battery and charging from 20c weather to 30c, 30c+ and the even greater difference to the 40c we had (40.2c here, second highest ever recorded in the country).

 

140a is great, not that big nowadays, but it don't do much when the engine's not running and will be having to do more if there is a fault(s) in the battery monitoring system, charging system or computer programs or other problems.  I have seen on here people having the battery monitoring systems repaired on IIRC Fabias.

 

Personally I'd expect more than 7 years out of a first battery but I've not got your model of car or your use.  The second battery may not last as long as the car is 7 years old with the wear/tear, use/abuse and just aging so the second battery will have more to do.

 

You can disconnect and remove the battery from the car to charge it (and in a possibly more stable environment where you can keep also keep more of a regular eye on it, all subject to what are your requirements and those from RtFM.

 

Throw your hat in for Chancellor your maths must be better than at least one potential Prime Minister. 🤣

 

Let us know how you get on. 

Edited 30 August, 20223 yr by nta16

53 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Battery monitoring or charging problems were also considered, also perhaps poor electrical connections, but usually best to start with the basic and simple things especially when they're quick, easy and cheap to carry out - even if you are/were an auto-electrician, in fact more so as your mind runs on to more sexy complex things and of course probably a much greater reluctance than the average man (women are generally more sensible) to RtFM.  I had to deal with electricians in a previous life so I know what they can be like, as a generalisation.  Perhaps you are different, but electrician and motor trade lowers the odds.  😉

 

I'm often slagged off here for putting the VW computer programs are over-complicated, over-intrusive and intertwined, more so with start/stop, it may have been useful for VW to help hide their diesel cheats.

 

Sorry, the 12.v I meant as a battery reading.  I know about dynamos as for about 30 years I ran "classic" cars as 'dailies' and until last week for 15 years owned a 1973 car which had it been made months before would have a dynamo, I changed the alternator to an uprated version to allow for the electric cooling fan instead of the engine driven fan.

 

As an auto-electrician you'll know about the difference on the battery and charging from 20c weather to 30c, 30c+ and the even greater difference to the 40c we had (40.2c here, second highest ever recorded in the country).

 

140a is great, not that big nowadays, but it don't do much when the engine's not running and will be having to do more if there is a fault(s) in the battery monitoring system, charging system or computer programs or other problems.  I have seen on here people having the battery monitoring systems repaired on IIRC Fabias.

 

Personally I'd expect more than 7 years out of a first battery but I've not got your model of car or your use.  The second battery may not last as long as the car is 7 years old with the wear/tear, use/abuse and just aging so the second battery will have more to do.

 

You can disconnect and remove the battery from the car to charge it (and in a possibly more stable environment where you can keep also keep more of a regular eye on it, all subject to what are your requirements and those from RtFM.

 

Throw your hat in for Chancellor your maths must be better than at least one potential Prime Minister. 🤣

 

Let us know how you get on. 

Thanks, a 140A alternator is pretty big for a car. The VW computer programs is a real pain, especially on my particular model with just about everything being controlled via the canbus and the entire car is peppered with control units, in the doors, under the seats, in the boot and loads under the bonnet. This car is fully loaded with almost everything you could think of, Xenon headlights which are also controlled by the steering and speed of the car which will alter the alignment of the lamps, there is a TV tuner in the boot etc etc.

 

The car is so complicated that I had fitted to the car when I ordered it, a solar sunroof designed to power the air circulation fan from solar power so that when parked up in the sunlight, the fan would be driven directly from the roof panel and lower the inside temperature by around 5C. That stopped working 3 years ago when the alternator belt snapped and nobody knows how to fix it and everyone I speak to in Skoda dealerships and indeed even Audi so called master techs even know about that such things exist.

 

As to the potential Prime Minister, well lets just say, either way, we're screwed.

Edited 30 August, 20223 yr by Graham Butcher
added something I forgot

51 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Personally I'd expect more than 7 years out of a first battery

OTOH I don't know anyone who's got more than 4 years out of a stop/start battery, and 3 years is much more typical.

8 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

OTOH I don't know anyone who's got more than 4 years out of a stop/start battery, and 3 years is much more typical.

Well the one currently fitted has a makers 4 year warranty, so they must believe that it will last at least that long, it cost an arm and a leg,

You car's electrics and computers sound hideous to me, you might as well go to a Merc and really suffer, or an Aldi out of warranty (19k patents, remember that) sounds like a lot of potential for drains, errors and faults to me.  I wonder how long that lot takes to go to sleep, possibly not as much as reported on some of the later/est cars.  I still get ****ed off with the wife's Fabia's front windows needing the ignition on to open or close them.  Fully loaded is more wasteful on mpg too.  😉

 

ETA: btw good to be able to throw in some light-heated comments, joking, ****-taking and have responses without gate taking and a few similar responses.

Edited 30 August, 20223 yr by nta16

@KenONeill the battery on my wife's start/stop was 6 years old when I prematurely changed it because of the car's use and I'd had enough farting about with my own car to ever want to lay a finger on my wife's car and both of us would sooner it have a new battery as the car was said to be a Dealership courtesy car at some point in the 18 months and 10k-miles before she bought the car.  And I think I was hoping (without too much belief)  it might sort the wipers fault at the time.

 

I'll let you know if I don't get the replacement battery beyond 3 or 4 years and I do next to nothing with car batteries, you don't need to help them last.  I can't remember if it has a 4 or 5 year warranty.  IIRC (always some doubt) I've seen on here people state having the battery longer on start/stop cars.

 

Edited 30 August, 20223 yr by nta16

7 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

No,  I did not say your logic was faulty. Looking at the workshop manual, there is another possibility for cars with the start/stop system,  the battery monitor module which is part of the negative terminal. There is a 2 pin plug coming away from it and one lead connects to the starter solenoid, the other to the alternator.  Now,  if this is playing up,  it will have an impact on both the charging and the starting.  Modern cars are just so complicated,  that it is almost impossible to repair them yourself with access to loads of expensive equipment. 

The 2 wires heading from the battery monitor will tell the Alternator to charge the battery as and when it deems it's needed.  The other wire to the starter is for another part of stop/start, you have a capacitor under your seat (or passenger) that has at least 200W of storage capacity, this is "enabled" when a signal is sent via the cars network to engage and keep the radio running whilst the starter is engaged, once the starter reports it is no longer in use, then it will being charging the capacitor.

 

Any breaks will disable stop/start.  The one to the alternator will most likely cause it to run all the time to maintain, and/or put a light on dash (minimum fault codes will be stored)

 

 

It's very easy to check your theory, unplug the 2-pin connector... if the car starts then your logic about it stopping the car from starting will be blown out of the water.

 

 

@KenONeill @nta16 For what it is worth, my 2015 Greenline 1.6tdi with Stop/Start is still on the original battery stamp on negative is 25 15, wk 25 2015.  Date of production 30.06.2015 for the car.

I know the life of the battery is getting towards the end, maybe I was very lucky to have this survive all this time!

56 minutes ago, nta16 said:

You car's electrics and computers sound hideous to me, you might as well go to a Merc and really suffer, or an Aldi out of warranty (19k patents, remember that) sounds like a lot of potential for drains, errors and faults to me.  I wonder how long that lot takes to go to sleep, possibly not as much as reported on some of the later/est cars.  I still get ****ed off with the wife's Fabia's front windows needing the ignition on to open or close them.  Fully loaded is more wasteful on mpg too.  😉

 

ETA: btw good to be able to throw in some light-heated comments, joking, ****-taking and have responses without gate taking and a few similar responses.

If you really want pain, watch this video about a Bentley (the ECU's are all VW/Audi) as you will see it is like my car where everything runs through ECU's everywhere, I'm even surprised that the umbrella in the door doesn't have a control module for it 😅

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K1W4Bb2s-M

20 minutes ago, varooom said:

know the life of the battery is getting towards the end, maybe I was very lucky to have this survive all this time!

Oh no!  I'm not 'aving it!  Get that battery on a charger ASAP.  We're 'aving at least another couple of years out of it if not more.

 

Despite how it might seem I do virtually nothing with my car batteries, I did once put the charger on my car's battery as I had been using it on a neighbour's battery but for my car it was a waste of time (but bear in mind what I've put about my car, it's not a modern VW), it had very little electrics on it, it did have (self-parking) wipers, added electric pump screen washer (manual pump as standard and pint capacity screenwash bottle), blower motor, added electric cooling fan, and lights, horn, starter and charger electrics - but no modern (or period) extras.  Name an extra and I'll see if I've forgot about it, oh it did also have a cabin and boot light which my previous example didn't.

 

Edited 30 August, 20223 yr by nta16
spelling

@varooom I'll try that out later after I get back from a trip I need to make.

6 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Oh no!  I'm not 'aving it!  Get that battery on a charger ASAP.  We're 'aving at least another couple of years out of it if not more.

 

Despite how it might seem I do virtually nothing with my car batteries, I did once put the charger on my car's battery as I had been using it on a neighbour's battery but for my car it was a waste of time (but bear in mind what I've put about my car, it's not a modern VW), it had very little electrics on it, it did have (self-parking) wipers, added electric pump screen washer (manual pump as standard and pint capacity screenwash bottle), blower motor, added electric cooling fan, and lights, horn, starter and charger electrics - but no modern (or period) extras.  Name an extra and I'll see if I've forgot about it, oh it did also have a cabin and boot light which my previous example didn't.

 

Well, my last one lasted 2 months short of 7 years, and it never saw a battery charger, the only charge it got was from the alternator and in reality that should be all it ever requires, unless the car has been allowed to sit for a long period without being started or driven.

21 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Oh no!  I'm not 'aving it!  Get that battery on a charger ASAP.  We're 'aving at least another couple of years out of it if not more.

Last Friday, the car did a 12 mile journey each way, not driven since and sits at 12.15V I would love to take the battery to 8, 9 or 10 years, but that's not something I wish to chance.

 

A part of me would love to see how far I can get it before it calls it quits, I shall try to push it as far as is sensible.

6 hours ago, varooom said:

Last Friday, the car did a 12 mile journey each way, not driven since and sits at 12.15V I would love to take the battery to 8, 9 or 10 years, but that's not something I wish to chance.

 

A part of me would love to see how far I can get it before it calls it quits, I shall try to push it as far as is sensible.

I wasn't suggesting you torture the battery to death but give it a little help.  Seems only Northampton got the sustain heat and 100% humidity to worry the batteries.  😊 

 

After a certain point the time and distance of the journey becomes a lot less important, you and the chancellor would be able to work it out better and quicker than I.  As before it's if the battery is getting income and over expenditure or excess expenditure.  Depends on all the electrical necessary, "necessary" and toys use whilst driving and parked up.  A slot meter (coin pre-payment) meter on the electric use of the car would soon bring a better idea of what is used and what uses most, looking for the correct coins and sufficient quantity of them at the necessary times would sharpen the experience. - Or you could get a battery monitor and have colour graphs to a mobile device and see what your car gets up to when driven and when you leave it parked up to its own devices.

 

Three days at least with the car unused is long enough to even put a battery smart trickle/maintenance charger on with the battery still in the car.  If you're feeling low do you really want to carry the same load as when you're fit or on a high of some sort.

 

12.15v is (about) 55% according to Ring's SmartCharger manual so low just driving the car wouldn't get it to it's full present potential or probably hold all of what you do get in it.  I hope you're not one of those old family wealthy types with servants that you flog to death and just replace.  😄

 

Just don't become an AA static by causing your battery to fail this autumn or winter (if not before) - but if you do come back for the virtual flogging.  😁

 

I'm surprised you've not got a battery monitor of some sort you enjoy the techie side of it, even I liked the pretty colours when rum4mo put up his pictures.  😊

 

Edited 30 August, 20223 yr by nta16
spelling

7 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

If you really want pain, watch this video about a Bentley (the ECU's are all VW/Audi) as you will see it is like my car where everything runs through ECU's everywhere, I'm even surprised that the umbrella in the door doesn't have a control module for it 😅

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K1W4Bb2s-M

That was an interesting video, so much so that I had to see the next video on it.  I didn't see too much pain once the basics had been accepted.  Good to see it's not just punters that have someone to tell you what you already know but for a cost - £150 to plug in the pooter to be told there's no communication.  And the other costs were laughably low even for trade, £200 for a day's specialist work (I'm sure it was a full day  but must have hours so still good valve) and on a VW.  I saw a VW Bentley stripped down it had lots of fantastic German plastic, not what all but the youngest owners would want to see,  😄

 

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

That was an interesting video, so much so that I had to see the next video on it.  I didn't see too much pain once the basics had been accepted.  Good to see it's not just punters that have someone to tell you what you already know but for a cost - £150 to plug in the pooter to be told there's no communication.  And the other costs were laughably low even for trade, £200 for a day's specialist work (I'm sure it was a full day  but must have hours so still good valve) and on a VW.  I saw a VW Bentley stripped down it had lots of fantastic German plastic, not what all but the youngest owners would want to see,  😄

 

I watch all of their videos, and if you subscribe to the channel, you'll get to see what happens when a car battery gets so low that the ECU's cease talking to each other, when a new battery is installed the entire dash lights up like a Christmas tree, and sometimes it takes many attempts to clear all the error codes, and there are some that won’t clear until the car has been driven a few miles.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

you'll get to see what happens when a car battery gets so low that the ECU's cease talking to each other, when a new battery is installed the entire dash lights up like a Christmas tree, and sometimes it takes many attempts to clear all the error codes, and there are some that won’t clear until the car has been driven a few miles.

Yes I know, this is what I try to tell others in my charge the battery prevention posts but many can't believe the computers are so battery dependant - including you it seems. 🤣

 

For you and the very few other viewers a little reinforcement of the message, as Lou Reed almost sang, You're going to reap just what is sown, I found this tonight. 😁 -

 

"Extreme Temperatures

Excessive heat can cause sulfation and corrosion inside your battery.  You usually notice the problem (trouble with cold starts and poor charge acceptance) during cold weather."

 

https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/battery-test

 

Perfect Day (2003 Remastered) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9UQSLjha9E